Wait for me please.

90 Blood Elf Priest
13110
I don't get why some of you guys are coddling him - it won't help him become a better player. You need to recognize your own flaws. If you're slow, speed up. If you're going oom, be more efficient.

All you guys are doing is breeding another healer to think they're the most important person in the group which in turn makes them annoying to group with.

You could argue that not everyone plays this game to be as fast as possible and some people want to 'enjoy their time' (I've heard this one plenty). But on the flip side, how is it fair that you're holding 4 people back because you feel like taking your time?

If you really don't want them to speed ahead, just say something at the start of the instance. It's not that hard and it'll actually make a difference unlike making a post on the forums...


Well, if you get off on being abused by DPS and tanks in instances, good for you!

I'm not going to tell a healer to be a doormat and feel constantly stressed in a dungeon with a bunch of mouth-breathing idiots who apparently can't take the time to see if his mana bar is full or not. No. He has a right to have as much fun as everyone else.

His fun is just as important as your fun.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
15835
I don't get why some of you guys are coddling him - it won't help him become a better player. You need to recognize your own flaws. If you're slow, speed up. If you're going oom, be more efficient.

All you guys are doing is breeding another healer to think they're the most important person in the group which in turn makes them annoying to group with.

You could argue that not everyone plays this game to be as fast as possible and some people want to 'enjoy their time' (I've heard this one plenty). But on the flip side, how is it fair that you're holding 4 people back because you feel like taking your time?

If you really don't want them to speed ahead, just say something at the start of the instance. It's not that hard and it'll actually make a difference unlike making a post on the forums...


Well, if you get off on being abused by DPS and tanks in instances, good for you!

I'm not going to tell a healer to be a doormat and feel constantly stressed in a dungeon with a bunch of mouth-breathing idiots who apparently can't take the time to see if his mana bar is full or not. No. He has a right to have as much fun as everyone else.

His fun is just as important as your fun.


how am I getting abused? I praise sweet jesus if I actually get a tank that knows how to pull instances to make it as painless as possible.

sure if you're oom, they shouldn't be pulling. but considering this is MoP, if you aren't in one of your first 5 heroics at 90 and super undergeared with an undergeared tank, you probably shouldn't be going oom... again, that's something to improve upon yourself.

why are healers so often against recognizing their own flaws and improving upon them?
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90 Blood Elf Priest
13110
how am I getting abused? I praise sweet jesus if I actually get a tank that knows how to pull instances to make it as painless as possible.

sure if you're oom, they shouldn't be pulling. but considering this is MoP, if you aren't in one of your first 5 heroics at 90 and super undergeared with an undergeared tank, you probably shouldn't be going oom... again, that's something to improve upon yourself.

why are healers so often against recognizing their own flaws and improving upon them?


It isn't a "flaw" to prefer to get to drink and set up before pulling a boss.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
15835
how am I getting abused? I praise sweet jesus if I actually get a tank that knows how to pull instances to make it as painless as possible.

sure if you're oom, they shouldn't be pulling. but considering this is MoP, if you aren't in one of your first 5 heroics at 90 and super undergeared with an undergeared tank, you probably shouldn't be going oom... again, that's something to improve upon yourself.

why are healers so often against recognizing their own flaws and improving upon them?


It isn't a "flaw" to prefer to get to drink and set up before pulling a boss.


bosses are the mana break in this expansion :/
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90 Blood Elf Priest
13110
01/24/2013 07:21 PMPosted by Noxnzee
bosses are the mana break in this expansion :/


That entirely depends on your gear and the skill of your group. It's actually pretty damn difficult for people with no gear who encounter tanks with an over-inflated view of their own abilities and DPS who can't be arsed to get out of the fire.
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90 Blood Elf Mage
17040
It's always the ridiculously geared people that are sayong "everything is super easy" "I never need to drink" "I have infinite mana" "L2 play"
Edited by Taymage on 1/24/2013 7:38 PM PST
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90 Blood Elf Priest
15835
I spawned with this gear on all of my healer characters.
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90 Blood Elf Mage
17065
01/24/2013 07:57 PMPosted by Noxnzee
I spawned with this gear on all of my healer characters.


No, but you clearly have forgotten what it was like shortly after you spawned. :)
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90 Night Elf Priest
13930
Honestly, I have to agree with Noxn—to an extent. Unless you're in blues and greens and are in a group taking a beating, 100% new to your role as a healer, or have some physical/mental disability that limits your speed, you should not be in a position where you're slowing the group down.

The OP mentioned wanting time to setup Sanctuary and Lightspring before the boss. In a 5-man, a Holy Priest should almost exclusively be in Serenity and it takes less than half a second to setup Lightspring. You can do that while the tank is pulling.
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90 Undead Priest
2695
01/24/2013 08:23 PMPosted by Elethia
The OP mentioned wanting time to setup Sanctuary and Lightspring before the boss. In a 5-man, a Holy Priest should almost exclusively be in Serenity and it takes less than half a second to setup Lightspring. You can do that while the tank is pulling.


I do this, even though a little cost to my mana, its easier to tick back up out of combat...correct? Plus its still active when they start.

Its not like a button masher either, I actually have to think and pay attention to everyone and my surroundings. I like to be in a good position.

Okay, so some people are so geared out they need little help. I've experienced this and the total opposite. Maybe, there are great, good geared, healers out there. I think I am an above average healer as well. But no need to power through.

Maybe its the LFG setup mentality. Or maybe it is my main that I like to take the time to progress and learn. I don't need these healing tools while questing. I had to setup my tool bars and study what each healing item is before and when to use them. I want to be a great healer.

If I am blowing through instances, what I am learning? How to spam FH and PW: S the whole match draining my mana? Pulling aggro off the tank. These are not tactics I want to bring into endgame. So I learn now.

If I am in position I would almost never have to drink either.

Tanks in endgame can blow through instance still? Do they not have to learn either. Or is it just button mashing for them?
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90 Blood Elf Mage
17065
This is all sitting around speculating how many angels can dance on the head of a pin: how many blues, how many greens does one have to have before it is ok for the tank to be a *@@@*@**.

I mean, who cares?

If the healer wants to take a second to drink. Or to loot. Or to place a lightspring. *That is NORMAL*

And advice to the contrary, i.e., "L2 KEEP UP N00B" is just being a sycophant apologist for poor tank behavior.
Edited by Taymage on 1/25/2013 2:24 AM PST
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90 Blood Elf Priest
13110
01/24/2013 11:40 PMPosted by Healustrious
Tanks in endgame can blow through instance still? Do they not have to learn either. Or is it just button mashing for them?


With enough gear you can ignore most mechanics in a 5 man.

However, I am with Taymage in that I don't think there's anything wrong with you wanting full mana and a modicum of setup time before the boss is pulled. Mostly on the full mana thing.

However, if I may offer you a bit of advice...if you really, truly want to be a great healer, you need to do some BGs. Learn what it's like to have everything go to hell in a handbasket, to see crazy damage coming in on more than 5 people, and you will start to understand the way raid damage can be. I know that it helped me become a better raid healer, so I highly recommend it.
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32 Pandaren Monk
5000
I don't think it would hurt tanks to go just a smidgen slower. Not dramatically, but just a little. Three to five extra minutes in a dungeon won't kill you. I get that you're "bored", but if so, go read a book and stop being such a prima donna. It's a game. Nobody is forcing you to play.

Having said that... Of course an experienced healer should be able to keep up with the tank in 5-mans. Big, fat duh. It's curious to see these very experienced healers hollering TOUGHEN UP, SUNSHINE to people who are less experienced than them. If a player is inexperienced, they are probably going to be slower. It's a given. You go at the speed that is right for your experience level and as you improve, you (assumedly) get faster.

I don't consider myself to be "coddling" anyone. If you can go fast, go fast. If you can't, practice but don't force it. Don't just blindly try and go super fast to please the masses; make sure you're healing in a way that is optimal for your class and spec, and practice. It will probably naturally follow that your ability to go fast will improve. If, after a lot of practice, you're still struggling, maybe that healing class isn't for you.

Unless [you]... have some physical/mental disability that limits your speed, you should not be in a position where you're slowing the group down.


And I hope you didn't mean for that comment to come across as spiteful, but it kinda did.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
15835
This is all sitting around speculating how many angels can dance on the head of a pin: how many blues, how many greens does one have to have before it is ok for the tank to be a *@@@*@**.

I mean, who cares?

If the healer wants to take a second to drink. Or to loot. Or to place a lightspring. *That is NORMAL*

And advice to the contrary, i.e., "L2 KEEP UP N00B" is just being a sycophant apologist for poor tank behavior.


I don't get it. If something actually becomes such a widespread problem for someone that they have to make a post about it on the forums, then it's probably happened more than once. In fact, I'm willing to bet it happens all the time.

It's obvious this guy didn't just get out of instance#4000 with speedy tank#1 and get upset enough to make a thread like this.

You say it's normal to want to have mana so you can heal... fine, I already said that makes sense. But that shouldn't be happening all the time this expansion, especially in 85-90 normals.

Very rarely have I seen this "poor tank behavior" that healers seem to speak of so commonly on the forums. I actually have no idea how some situations even happen. Take, for instance, the post you made on page 1... you talk about tanks going 2 rooms ahead of everyone. Maybe you can explain that one to me, because I feel like I'd have to go AFK for that to even happen.

I don't actually care if people have bad gear, are slower in general, etc... all of that is fixable by communicating at the start of the instance. The point I'm trying to make in this thread is it's not always someone else's fault. Healers seem to be the role that blames other people the most because they don't want to believe it's their fault. Just the trend I've been noticing recently and I hate it when people refuse to admit that it might be a flaw of their own.
Edited by Noxnzee on 1/25/2013 3:11 AM PST
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90 Night Elf Mage
10330
Something I'd like to add: Not everyone has years of experience at their class or as a healer. OP mentioned having quit for awhile, BC to be precise. The game has changed dramatically - Priests have new spells / passives, 5 man content has completely changed, and he/she is possibly rusty. Given his/her position, it is perfectly acceptable to ask for the tank to slow down.

Don't get me wrong: He/she shouldn't be drinking after every pull, or even every other pull. But asking for a break for mana before a boss, or after a large pull, is pretty normal. The group should move quickly, but at an acceptable rate for everyone. This is particularly true when learning, or re-learning, how to effectively heal.
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Nothing wrong with telling your group you're rusty and that they may need to go a lil slower, but there's also nothing wrong at all with the OP learning to go at the current normal pace for a group. It's their run too. This is why I tried to point out ways that the OP can increase their speed/efficiency.

It was also suggested earlier that they get used to their spells in a bg instead of a 5man pve group and this is very good advice. If nothing else start up a new priest and level a ways to get back in the swing.

If you just came back from a BC quit that means you've had 16 levels to get back in the swing though, so that really doesn't hold water either.

I haven't seen anyone here say "get better nub" except the ones trying to say the OP is fine for playing in a sub-par manner. Playing a bit sub-par is normal while you're leveling because leveling is where you need to learn. Part of learning is learning to go at the normal pace for a dungeon..which nowadays is quite fast. You not only need to learn to use all those spells you need to learn how to use them and keep up at the same time.
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90 Human Priest
10345


Well, if you get off on being abused by DPS and tanks in instances, good for you!

I'm not going to tell a healer to be a doormat and feel constantly stressed in a dungeon with a bunch of mouth-breathing idiots who apparently can't take the time to see if his mana bar is full or not. No. He has a right to have as much fun as everyone else.

His fun is just as important as your fun.


how am I getting abused? I praise sweet jesus if I actually get a tank that knows how to pull instances to make it as painless as possible.

sure if you're oom, they shouldn't be pulling. but considering this is MoP, if you aren't in one of your first 5 heroics at 90 and super undergeared with an undergeared tank, you probably shouldn't be going oom... again, that's something to improve upon yourself.

why are healers so often against recognizing their own flaws and improving upon them?


Nox - we're talking about a healer who is in greens and blues, running regs with people who may or may not be any good and just came back. We aren't speaking about over gearing heroics.

Trust me - I've seen a couple of bad groups and it's been everything I can do to keep us up during trash pulls (just had a Monastary run yesterday like this where I was drinking after every trash pull at times because it was so bad and then couple that with low DPS and things were awful didn't even have time to finish it). It's also why I quest in Disc when I'm in queue because I don't rely on having any time when I zone in. It's not worth the risk to be trapped in Shadow or OOM while the tank is running off being stupid.

I have seen a lot of tanks over the years believe they are all that when they are anything but. Along with other members of the group behaving the same way. I've stayed alive as a tank and finished off bosses when the rest of the group is dead. I've kept DPS alive as a after the tank goes splat and finished a boss. No one is the most important person in the group.

I'm not coddling him - I'm telling him to feel free to take 30-60 seconds at the start to get situated and to feel free to drink when your mana is low even if the rest of the group is too dull to realize pulling a boss with a healer OOM is probably a bad thing.
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90 Undead Priest
2695
There's also nothing wrong at all with the OP learning to go at the current normal pace for a group.


What is the current normal pace for a group. That is very subjective. Unless you make it about one persons pace, which should be the healer.

Maybe we should break this down more. If a tank wants to rush, then he should be very properly geared and trained. Not being 1/4 health in 3 seconds after pulling a mob. Can I handle that, yes. But put me in a position to do it with less effort. They pull mobs into the next mobs and I am out of range, or lose LoS trying to catch up.

After pulling mobs, before I have full mana or even in the area of a boss fight, Tank will rush the boss. I am still trying to top everyone off on health too from last pull. I would like to set up before a boss fight, because I understand people like to stand in damage and I could end up spending unneccesary time healthing DPS, because I don't like anyone wiping.

01/25/2013 05:31 AMPosted by Feyranna
If you just came back from a BC quit that means you've had 16 levels to get back in the swing though, so that really doesn't hold water either.


I quit in the middle of 2007. How does that not hold any water?

01/25/2013 05:31 AMPosted by Feyranna
You not only need to learn to use all those spells you need to learn how to use them and keep up at the same time.


Keeping up isnt the problem. Did I convey that I am moving at a snails pace. If waiting 5 seconds is such a burden, and making my game play miserable, I can do the same. People try to pay me to run dungeons with them, I do it for free, but obviously healers arent a class you want to outright kick. So respect the healer and his wishes.
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The person above that posts theory that if you just came back you're still in shell-shocked bc mode. You've had 16 levels...you should be getting it together by now.

At this point I can tell from your posts that nothing anyone here says is going to sink in...you just want to be patted on the head and told it's those mean old tanks going fast.

You were given suggestions on specific things you can do to increase your speed..you don't want to. I would suggest finding a slower paced game because wow has moved on from the pace of BC and one slow healer isn't going to change that.
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90 Pandaren Shaman
9855
01/25/2013 02:23 AMPosted by Taymage
If the healer wants to take a second to drink. Or to loot.


I loot, whether the tank and DPS give me a chance to or not. I mean, I understand that there are 4 other people that are trying to get it done as fast as possible, but why should that mean that Im not allowed to loot at all?
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