Wait for me please.

20 Human Rogue
0
A good tank knows when to wait for their healer.

Sometimes people are idiots, but damage really isn't high at all, and I find myself with time to dps in most dungeons while leveling my healers

Edit: Respec disc and read up on atonement healing, its easy, efficient, and helps the run go faster
Edited by Ault on 1/25/2013 7:32 AM PST
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90 Blood Elf Mage
17065
01/25/2013 06:47 AMPosted by Shammyren
If the healer wants to take a second to drink. Or to loot.


I loot, whether the tank and DPS give me a chance to or not. I mean, I understand that there are 4 other people that are trying to get it done as fast as possible, but why should that mean that Im not allowed to loot at all?


Oh I agree. That is my point.
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90 Pandaren Shaman
9855
01/25/2013 09:21 AMPosted by Taymage


I loot, whether the tank and DPS give me a chance to or not. I mean, I understand that there are 4 other people that are trying to get it done as fast as possible, but why should that mean that Im not allowed to loot at all?


Oh I agree. That is my point.


:)
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90 Draenei Priest
11815
I do what I want to do and if they want to run off and die that's their right. I'm well geared, a good priest but if I need mana I sit. If I need .05 seconds to loot I will. If you want to go break neck speed in a dungeon bring your own heals, IDC.

And I say all this being able to keep up a wickedly fast pace in dungeons but there have totally been groups hell bent on wanting to die, and they find ways to do so.

But on my horde priest who is still pretty poorly geared if I need mana I'll ask for it, if they don't want to wait, I'll leave. Not putting up with jerks when I'm not going afk or something.
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98 Draenei Shaman
7175
OP is not the only healer struggling to keep up.
One time i was on auto run trying to type and hurry telling tank to run back to me for a heal as i saw his life going down. Of course he died rather tham backtrack.

Sometimes tank takes a short cut and i am following a dps going
wrong way. I can usually keep up.

Sometimes i get behind if assessing whether to need on offspec. If no one else can even use the item then sometimes i'll need. But usually i just greed and don't look back.
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90 Draenei Shaman
7190
01/24/2013 03:43 AMPosted by Noxnzee
try keeping up, i get upset when healers can't keep up with me


if i was your healer in that situation id purposely let you die for havign that kind of attitude

01/25/2013 10:58 AMPosted by Ocyla
But on my horde priest who is still pretty poorly geared if I need mana I'll ask for it, if they don't want to wait, I'll leave. Not putting up with jerks when I'm not going afk or something.


i agree with everything here expect leaving. dont leave... wipe their !@# and make them see the hard way who really has the power of life or death.
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98 Draenei Shaman
7175
I also don't drink until just before pull after arrival at next mob. That way i can heal before my drink is done if need be. I can often mana up before they need a heal.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
13110
01/25/2013 03:08 AMPosted by Noxnzee
Very rarely have I seen this "poor tank behavior" that healers seem to speak of so commonly on the forums. I actually have no idea how some situations even happen. Take, for instance, the post you made on page 1... you talk about tanks going 2 rooms ahead of everyone. Maybe you can explain that one to me, because I feel like I'd have to go AFK for that to even happen.


I zone in as a DPS spec, shout, "Pls give me a sec to respec and drink!" Respec, sit down and drink.

Tank is two rooms ahead.

------

I zone in, and by the time I'm actually in the instance, the tank is already pulling 3-5 packs and is out of range.

------

Someone died on a trash pull for whatever reason (probably protecting me, now that I think about it), and I am ressing them. While I'm ressing them (with a macro clearly stating I am ressing them), the tank runs ahead two to three rooms, pulling everything along the way.

------

Monk tank with Keg Smash, does not know what LoS is, does not know how to AOE tank. Pulls one group of mobs in Scarlet Monastery, but ignores all of the ranged mobs. The ranged mobs immediately aggro to me, as I'm healing the monk tank through the damage he's taking. I try to pull the mobs to the tank, I try interrupting the ranged casters with Wind Shear (this is on my lowbie Shaman). Even when standing on top of the tank with the mobs whaling on me, he never notices. I finally ask the Fury Warrior to please tank them for me, and he does. And both takes less damage than the Monk AND is able to keep threat better.

While I'm ressing the Hunter, who died trying to save me (I just couldn't heal both him and the tank fast enough for the damage they were taking), the tank runs up the stairs and pulls both the group of monks on the left and the entire left side under the covered walkway.

-----------

Maybe you're just super lucky. Maybe the rest of us are just really bad. The fact remains that you're advocating that the problem is always with the healer. How dare the healer want to go slower. How dare the healer be intimidated or overwhelmed by the amount of damage going out because the DPS are standing in everything and the tank doesn't know what Shuffle/Savage Defense/SotR is.

All the OP was advocating for was politeness.
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90 Tauren Paladin
11345
when Dealing with tanks and dps that want to go break-neck speed, I have learned 3 simple rules.

1. I can only move so fast, I am a healer, not a car hop on roller skates.

2. If I need mana, I have it macroed to yell, "Stop I need mana"

3. If they want to run ahead I dance on their corpses if it is safe to do so as they run back in.

I will heal or res stupid, if they are honest about missing something, I will not heal or res impatient.
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90 Human Priest
10285
The person above that posts theory that if you just came back you're still in shell-shocked bc mode. You've had 16 levels...you should be getting it together by now.

At this point I can tell from your posts that nothing anyone here says is going to sink in...you just want to be patted on the head and told it's those mean old tanks going fast.

You were given suggestions on specific things you can do to increase your speed..you don't want to. I would suggest finding a slower paced game because wow has moved on from the pace of BC and one slow healer isn't going to change that.


16 levels of AoE spam is somehow supposed to get him ready for healing harder content? I'm sorry but what? Seriously, healing Wrath content and even Cata stuff now is a lot different then content that hasn't been nerfed yet. Especially when you don't know that new content. All I kept seeing (and still do on my Warrior) is an AoE spam fest in Cata dungeons with people doing anything they please - a far cry to what we dealt with at the beginning of that expansion.

He's saying tanks should wait for him to get mana before they pull huge or a boss. How is that somehow a bad thing? Or asking for a pat on the head?

Do I have tanks rushing ahead of me a lot? Yes. Do I sit and drink regardless if I need to? Yes. I make sure my butt is in the boss room and I sit and drink till either I'm thrown into content, my mana is full or the tank is about to take a fist full of death from the boss.

Is this a hard style to learn? Yes actually it is. I'm used to it. It was a culture shock going to a healer from being a tank for so many years because while I was polite and made sure the healer had mana most tanks are in lala land and oblivious. At this point in time you do need to learn to speed up because no one will hand you anything, including time since it's all about 'me' and 'my VP/JP' and 'my fast 5 man'. It's disgusting at times but dealing with LFD you have to endure it to get what you want out of it too, whether it be points, XP or gear. It's just the way it goes.
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90 Human Priest
10285
A good tank knows when to wait for their healer.

Sometimes people are idiots, but damage really isn't high at all, and I find myself with time to dps in most dungeons while leveling my healers

Edit: Respec disc and read up on atonement healing, its easy, efficient, and helps the run go faster


Oye, damage isn't high if you have a decent tank. I've had a couple of squishie ones and wow what a pain. Couple that with DPS who go 'ohhhh, stuff on the ground let's stand in it' or 'wow big breath of death let's stand in it!' and it can be a bit taxing.

With a good tank I can Smite heal a lot of stuff and get AA going when needed on bosses but with a mediocre or bad one I rarely have time.

@ Nox - Every once in a while I'll get distracted by loot for a few seconds and find the tank has run off on me. I've even had tanks use their speed buffs (Worgen racial etc) to run off way ahead. It's rare but I have had a few tanks run off on me.

The best ones though - dungeons in progress. I get zoned in at the portal - group is at boss. Group sees healer join group. Tank pulls boss that's far away from me. Group wipes since there's nothing I can do. I run out portal to save myself. Group yells at me for being fail.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
15835
The fact remains that you're advocating that the problem is always with the healer. How dare the healer want to go slower. How dare the healer be intimidated or overwhelmed by the amount of damage going out because the DPS are standing in everything and the tank doesn't know what Shuffle/Savage Defense/SotR is.

All the OP was advocating for was politeness.


I'm not saying the problem is always with the healer. I'm saying based off my experience gearing up + leveling my three healer 90's and him at level 86 making a post like this, it makes me think it's not a rare situation that he falls behind. That WOULD be a problem with the healer.

You're criticizing me that I'm always blaming the healer, but some people in this thread are on the opposite end - never blaming the healer. Like I've said twice already, if you have a problem. If you have bad gear, if you're new to the game, if you're coming back from a long break... you say something at the start of the instance. After that, if they still don't listen to you, then I would agree it's that poor tank behavior.

It's not like I want people to be like oh yeah this guy's bad, that guy's bad, I'm bad, etc. It's not about blame in the first place, it's about improvement and understanding where you need to improve. But people so rarely look at themselves in situations like the OP describes and think "maybe I need to be the one to make an adjustment." I'm not singling out OP here, btw, and it's not just the healing role. It just seems like healers are the most self-righteous compared to the rest of the roles because they feel so important to be the only person in the group having control over moving health bars up. Just as an example, in this thread, someone posted: "i agree with everything here expect leaving. dont leave... wipe their !@# and make them see the hard way who really has the power of life or death."

That's just as annoying to me as the tanks you guys describe. And yes, I may just be super lucky while I'm gearing up or leveling.

I can see those situations happening, but I think 2 rooms ahead is an exaggeration. In these heroics, tanks can live through multiple trash packs at once just fine with all of the self healing and mitigation they have. I agree they're !@#$ty tanks if they go ahead and die while you need to respec and drink or rez someone. Part of being a good tank is knowing what you and your healer can handle, just like part of being a good healer is staying with the tank and keeping the run as smooth as possible. IMO, there's nothing wrong with a tank moving ahead without you if they know they aren't going to die & wait for you if there's a boss lockout mechanic.
Edited by Noxnzee on 1/25/2013 12:08 PM PST
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90 Blood Elf Priest
13110
Nox, you did look at the OP's level, right? I don't think he was talking about Heroics.
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90 Human Priest
10285
01/25/2013 12:11 PMPosted by Tiriél
Nox, you did look at the OP's level, right? I don't think he was talking about Heroics.


What I said a page ago...
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90 Blood Elf Priest
15835
I'm not singling out the OP. I'm speaking of healers in general and talking about the OP for the purpose of discussion. But it doesn't matter if they're MoP heroics or leveling up dungeons... none of them should be particularly difficult save one or two pulls.

What I say about improvement should be relevant to every WoW player out there. Some people don't care about improvement and that's fine, but then they need to not complain about other people not doing their roles effectively.
Edited by Noxnzee on 1/25/2013 12:18 PM PST
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90 Human Priest
10285
You're criticizing me that I'm always blaming the healer, but some people in this thread are on the opposite end - never blaming the healer. Like I've said twice already, if you have a problem. If you have bad gear, if you're new to the game, if you're coming back from a long break... you say something at the start of the instance. After that, if they still don't listen to you, then I would agree it's that poor tank behavior.


I will add - Sadly people don't say anything because they are terrified of being kicked. They are scared some prima dona in the the group is going to start whining and they'll find themselves back to wherever they queued from. And yes, there have been rare occasions I'll see someone gripe and act up in a group because someone's new. And yes, I'll politely tell them to shut their mouths while I give a couple of lines about the boss.

As someone who has tanked a lot it saddens me to see this kind of thing. Seeing bad behavior on my healers makes me more sensitive to the group needs as a tank and I really could care less if someone wants to 'gogogogo'. My favorite 'I want a fast run' people were always the ones I got when we landed in a heavily scripted 5 man. I can only go as fast as the NPC's will let me so deal with it bucko.

Based on what I've seen in some groups - yes I can definitely see some 5 mans not giving the OP any time at all. Which is why I gave him the advice that I did. Somehow you thought that was patting him on the head instead of telling him to stand up for himself. There is a difference here Nox. :)
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90 Blood Elf Priest
13110
I'm not singling out the OP. I'm speaking of healers in general and talking about the OP for the purpose of discussion. But it doesn't matter if they're MoP heroics or leveling up dungeons... none of them should be particularly difficult save one or two pulls.

What I say about improvement should be relevant to every WoW player out there. Some people don't care about improvement and that's fine, but then they need to not complain about other people not doing their roles effectively.


Well, Nox, what should be doesn't always match to what is. The ease at which you clear a dungeon as a healer depends heavily on the skill of your tank, and the skill of the DPS in the group with you. You can't paint a brush and say, "You just shouldn't have any problems, and if you do, it's YOU that needs to improve, not the others."

Sometimes, it's seriously not the healer's fault.
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90 Night Elf Druid
0
I agree that a healer has to make an effort, but I also believe that the rest of the group should too - I've had 2 instances lately where the tank has pulled as he/she was approaching (not through, not in, but still running up to) a doorway that closes as soon as combat is engaged.

One I made it even though "graphically" the door appeared more than half closed - I was only about a second and a half behind. Sadly though, the other time I got to sit out Ook-ook, as I'd have to have been literally on the tank as we approached the doorway to get into the room before the door (which I must admit I never even realized was there until I got locked out!) closed. I'm almost always a few seconds behind the tank - it takes a few seconds to come into the melee as combat ends, and a second or 2 to loot by which time they are always running ahead to the next pull (if they haven't already), but only rarely am I even far enough behind to be out of cast range by the time I'm moving again.

And you know what's even sadder? It really didn't matter, most of the group was between a third and a half health when Ook-ook went down - which only means I'll likely see more of it.

<S>
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90 Blood Elf Priest
15835
I'm not singling out the OP. I'm speaking of healers in general and talking about the OP for the purpose of discussion. But it doesn't matter if they're MoP heroics or leveling up dungeons... none of them should be particularly difficult save one or two pulls.

What I say about improvement should be relevant to every WoW player out there. Some people don't care about improvement and that's fine, but then they need to not complain about other people not doing their roles effectively.


Well, Nox, what should be doesn't always match to what is. The ease at which you clear a dungeon as a healer depends heavily on the skill of your tank, and the skill of the DPS in the group with you. You can't paint a brush and say, "You just shouldn't have any problems, and if you do, it's YOU that needs to improve, not the others."

Sometimes, it's seriously not the healer's fault.


If someone makes a post about how they can't keep up with tanks in LFG, then I assume it's enough of a problem that it happens somewhat consistently. I'm not blaming the healer and I don't advocate blaming the tank. It's like playing an SC2 game and winning... if you want to improve, you don't say "oh man i just DESTROYED that guy". You think about where you went wrong. Maybe you won at 30 minutes when you could have won at 10 minutes. I translate what I do in SC2 over into WoW.

When I head over to the SC2 forums, I rarely see people want to improve as well. Instead, they blame other races. Oh, protoss is imba so just 6 pool every game. I pretty much compare that train of thought to blaming tanks in groups. You can't control protoss existing as a race and you can't control less than stellar players getting into your group. All you can control is your own gameplay. You could shrug it off and hope you get a better tank next time or you could try to be faster, more efficient, etc. for the next time you get a bad tank. I choose the latter and that's what I've been advocating for in this thread.

It seems that my point isn't getting through to people because I've had to repeat some stuff a bunch of times, so I should probably just stop.

Calamai - I wouldn't worry about getting kicked so you can feel more comfortable if you're new, etc. It's better to be placed into a new group than to be insecure in your current one. I get that not everyone thinks the same, but that's just my opinion on the matter.
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90 Human Priest
10285
Calamai - I wouldn't worry about getting kicked so you can feel more comfortable if you're new, etc. It's better to be placed into a new group than to be insecure in your current one. I get that not everyone thinks the same, but that's just my opinion on the matter.


Oh I totally agree with that, it's just what I've run into when I see people say they are new to a 5 man. I typically try to wrangle a tanking friend to go with me so I can learn to heal the place at least once with a competent tank.

It is really hard being either a tank or healer and solo queuing for stuff you don't know. To be honest, on my Pally (the current one I've had for years) I still get little butterflies queuing on her as tank even when I know the place well. DPS is less stressful of course, you can blend more in the background but it's still hard to say "I don't know this" to anyone, let alone a group of strangers who may or may not be nice.

Which is part of the problem here - not feeling like one can speak up and say - hey I need a sec or being completely ignored or worse put down when they do.
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