10- & 25-Player Raid Loot Changes – Patch 5.2

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90 Orc Hunter
0
I am dissapoint, Blizzard.

Why not allow cross realm raiding or maybe, I don't know, free server transfers and realm closures to build up the available raiding populations of all realms?

Or maybe scale it down to 20 man, so the group is easier to fill.

You guys are smart, there has to be another solution you can think of...
But who will get to keep their name, oh the humanity.
90 Orc Hunter
11070
You already slap 10 man guilds in the face by dropping more gear in 25 man and now you increase the drop rate of thunderforged gear? It was bad enough when 25 man FL got their legendaries faster than 10 man and now you want to go down that road again?

Here's a suggestion, make 10 man boss kills drop 5 pieces of loot and even out the distribution and gearing disadvantage between the two.


Your math is terrible


Who used math? Certainly not me
90 Pandaren Monk
15720
01/23/2013 09:34 AMPosted by Atanae
Maybe it's just me, but you already have the solution to 10s v. 25s. You're doing it in Asia already.


And that solution is terrible and disadvantages -- as mentioned by the CM -- the majority of players who are raiding.

A lot of people who raid as 10-man don't do it because it's 'convenient'. They do it because they want to raid with friends and people they like -- which has been stated as Blizzard's goal for the longest time.

This doesn't invalidate them as raiders. This just means that the market of players in NA is _different_ from other markets. And that's why the approach for Asia is different.
Edited by Smakke on 1/23/2013 9:42 AM PST
90 Blood Elf Paladin
7275
I like it, throw in some thunderforged LFR pieces in - why not it'll be lower ilevel than normal anyways.


No. Please no. LFR is a way to see content, not get geared.

except blizz has stated that LFR is a way to get geared as well as a source for people to see content who cannot commit to a raiding guild (that also may want to gear up the character)

i personally am for the setup that blizz has for this thunderforged gear (not available in lfr and higher drop rate in 25man)
Edited by Jarshie on 1/23/2013 9:41 AM PST
90 Draenei Mage
17740
01/23/2013 09:40 AMPosted by Jarshie


No. Please no. LFR is a way to see content, not get geared.

except blizz has stated that LFR is a way to get geared as well as a source for people to see content who cannot commit to a raiding guild (that also may want to gear up the character)


Thunderforged bag of gold. Gives double gold. God wouldn't it would be amazing?
90 Dwarf Death Knight
10180
I doubt the 25man population will spike up just because one item has a few extra digits on it.

I was hoping that before u got rid of item upgrades you would give 25man loot the upgraded item and force 10man to have to manually upgrade the item(s) to 25man quality. That way one raid form has an incentive for going "big" while the other won't get entirely shafted at all.

Another option would be to increase the 10man difficulty. Since cata, when ever my guild had slow raid nights (forcing us to not do 25mans) we would do heroic 10man and it was ridiculous at how easy heroic 10man was to heroic 25man. It wasn't even a proper scale down... it was a scale down with a slight reduction if difficulty!
90 Blood Elf Paladin
7275

except blizz has stated that LFR is a way to get geared as well as a source for people to see content who cannot commit to a raiding guild (that also may want to gear up the character)


Thunderforged bag of gold. Gives double gold. God wouldn't it would be amazing?


YAY i could now ALMOST buy a repair bill for dealing with the derps in LFR! :DDDDDD

>_>
90 Human Paladin
15355
We hated the best loot in Dragon Soul being random drops.

We hated Crystallized Firestone's in Firelands in order to obtain the best loot.

We REALLY hated the randomized stats loot from Throne of the Four Winds in Tier 11. Really hated that one.

I don't see this Thunderforged stuff being much different. We'll see.

(I'm speaking from a high-end hardcore raiding perspective)
Edited by Dkb on 1/23/2013 9:59 AM PST
90 Undead Priest
14525
I think that the upgrade system could have provided a cleaner solution to the 10 vs 25 dilemna. You could have set up 25 man raids to drop items upgraded 1/2. It would give 25 man raiders an incentive with pre-upgraded gear, but it's also something that 10 man raiders could get by spending valor.

One of the main reasons 25 man raid groups collapse into 10's, though, is the overall difficulty of normal raids. It really doesn't have much to do with incentive. 10 above average people in a 25 man raid that's struggling quickly realize that they can break apart and progress faster as a 10 man group. If normal modes were made slightly easier I think you'd see more 25 man raids.

Most new boss fights now are tuned to allow for very few mistakes by any raider. It's a lot easy to keep 10 people on track than 25. It's a lot easier to get 10 people that can do good dps to beat the enrage timer than 25. Lighten the difficulty a little bit for normal mode bosses (but keep heroic bosses very difficult) and watch 25 man raids be more successful.
90 Pandaren Monk
15720
01/23/2013 09:41 AMPosted by Cedes
I was hoping that before u got rid of item upgrades you would give 25man loot the upgraded item and force 10man to have to manually upgrade the item(s) to 25man quality. That way one raid form has an incentive for going "big" while the other won't get entirely shafted at all.


This is precisely what I was thinking/expecting myself. 25-man raiders get gear upgrades for free. 10-mans get the opportunity to build up upgraded gear over time via NPC.

This 'thunderforged' system just seems too much work on the development end for something, as we've suggested, can be MUCH more cleanly executed.
Edited by Smakke on 1/23/2013 9:45 AM PST
90 Human Paladin
15265
Sounds like a decent idea.
90 Worgen Hunter
9800
01/23/2013 09:33 AMPosted by Intervir
Instead of dropping thunderforged itens, we could see a new kind of mote that would upgrade a choosen item. The way this is intended, it will only generate more drama on loot distribuition, because ppl will want to wait for the TF one drops. Also, it would be great to have at least a guaranteed TF item at a 25 kill.


Agreed.

I was wondering what i will think when i put my hand on both a token piece and a Thunderforged item for that slot... This will be worse later in progression, when people start to get 4 pieces bonus and Having to choose between bonuses and Thunder itens...

A 'mote' or another kind of drop that let you choose which item you want to make a Thunderforged one would be better...
90 Human Priest
17500
As a 10 man raider, this isn't nearly enough to save 25 mans.

Also, I don't care about the gearing gap between 10/25s, unless they made it like WoTLK, where all 25 man drops were 13 ilvls higher.

Which, ironically, would be one of the only things that could save 25 mans.
90 Blood Elf Paladin
7275
I think that the upgrade system could have provided a cleaner solution to the 10 vs 25 dilemna. You could have set up 25 man raids to drop items upgraded 1/2. It would give 25 man raiders an incentive with pre-upgraded gear, but it's also something that 10 man raiders could get by spending valor.

One of the main reasons 25 man raid groups collapse into 10's, though, is the overall difficulty of normal raids. It really doesn't have much to do with incentive. 10 above average people in a 25 man raid that's struggling quickly realize that they can break apart and progress faster as a 10 man group. If normal modes were made slightly easier I think you'd see more 25 man raids.

Most new boss fights now are tuned to allow for very few mistakes by any raider. It's a lot easy to keep 10 people on track than 25. It's a lot easier to get 10 people that can do good dps to beat the enrage timer than 25. Lighten the difficulty a little bit for normal mode bosses (but keep heroic bosses very difficult) and watch 25 man raids be more successful.


thats a very good idea, although i thought i read somewhere that blizz did not have plans to allow you to upgrade next tiers gear
90 Worgen Druid
10230
Seems like a decent idea... my only problem is i will be disappointed when the thunderforged item finally drops in my 10 man raid and the same thing will happen with it that is already happening with 25-30% of our current loot..Disenchanted because the class that can use it isnt in there. Will be nice having a even lower drop rate piece of gear being disenchanted cause no one can use it.

Change bosses to only drop loot based on the class/spec that is currently in the raid and ill be all in for it. Otherwise im sure its going to be another thing that annoys me.

Somehow this needs to be factored in.. maybe just on thunderforged items? Considering im sure gear is being disenchanted much more in 10s compared to 25s.

Pretty much my only worry with this change
Edited by Lankynibs on 1/23/2013 9:48 AM PST
90 Undead Rogue
19530
01/23/2013 09:00 AMPosted by Crithto
You’ll now see a 5.2 raid item of LFR quality at item level 502, the same item in Normal quality at item level 522

Why such a big jump between the ilvls? LFR items at 502 will almost match the heroic version of this current tier.
I think it would be better if you dropped items that allow specific drops per boss or w/e to become thunder forged. As people have said above this new system is going to cause a huge headache for people once item upgrading becomes enabled again in 5.3.

Having it work like an separate upgrade aside from the valor system would still make it a nice surprise through out progression instead of a well now i need to go reforge/upgrade/re-enchant my new armor for 6 more ilvls.

I would like to note that I have no idea how hard this would be to implement. I'm just saying as it currently stands this system seems to directly work against your upgrade system and some people have a chance at replacing a slot 3-5 times over the course of the tier. Replacing an item will start feeling like a shore instead of a prize.
90 Undead Warlock
10100
01/23/2013 09:00 AMPosted by Crithto
and tier-15 armor pieces won’t be available in Thunderforged quality at all.


Are the set bonuses on tier going to make up for this discrepancy in power? I think there is a high possibility that some classes may get more power out of going for pure off-pieces.
90 Human Paladin
15355
LAME. LFR version needs to drop as well, but instead of Thunderforged, it needs to be titled "BOOOOOONESTOOOOOOOOORMed".
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