10- & 25-Player Raid Loot Changes – Patch 5.2

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100 Troll Shaman
15335
01/23/2013 09:00 AMPosted by Crithto
we love that there’s opportunity for those groups to try out new players or unusual comps without causing a huge burden


Translation: It's easier to carry people in 25-man.

Yep.
90 Dwarf Hunter
8865
01/23/2013 09:07 AMPosted by Daerioz
This will not help bring back 25s.


As a gear-chasing fiend, I completely disagree. I would upgrade my graphics card and suffer through weekly "seriously guys, who's saved to the instance" conversations to be able to get better RNG on Thunderforged items.

Yes please.
Edited by Virtuespets on 2/28/2013 1:54 PM PST
90 Human Paladin
7545
This is absolutely correct. The true value and purpose of LFR is to see the new content and work on your strategies so you can take the next step and down the regular bosses. Please keep some special treasures for the raids people are working to confront.
90 Pandaren Shaman
8455
02/28/2013 04:10 PMPosted by Judiquaitor
This is absolutely correct. The true value and purpose of LFR is to see the new content and work on your strategies so you can take the next step and down the regular bosses. Please keep some special treasures for the raids people are working to confront.


No. The purpose of LFR is to keep the subs paying via continued progression through gear and story and LFR allows most players the opportunity to feel like they're progressing without the need to join organized runs or even be in a Guild. It's all about the Benjamins.

The majority of WOW gamers log on to play solo at this point since Blizzard has slowly eroded any need for social interaction. It's a chicken and egg argument to figure out whether it was the player base that changed on their own or if the Blizzard devs screwed with the design of the game so much since Wrath that they changed the players expectations for the worse. Probably both.

I'll always contend that MMO's are always at their best when the players are the content since without the social aspect MMO's are flaccid versions of single player games of the same genre. When content was gated behind the need to join a good guild and be a good citizen of your server WOW was at it's peak.
90 Worgen Hunter
19840
Why is tier gear not thunderforged?
100 Worgen Warlock
12740
It's all good you guys. Apparently this system wasn't even conceived as having anything to do with 25 player raiding.

"Now that said, I don't think it's entirely accurate to say that the primary purpose of the Thunderforged items is to incentivize 25-player raiding." - Ian Hazzikostas

The fact that this wasn't the result of an attempt to make a meaningful impact in the life of 25 man raiders restores hope that maybe in another year or so they will feed us some other pointless nonsense.
100 Dwarf Hunter
11360

No. The purpose of LFR is to keep the subs paying via continued progression through gear and story and LFR allows most players the opportunity to feel like they're progressing without the need to join organized runs or even be in a Guild. It's all about the Benjamins.

The majority of WOW gamers log on to play solo at this point since Blizzard has slowly eroded any need for social interaction. It's a chicken and egg argument to figure out whether it was the player base that changed on their own or if the Blizzard devs screwed with the design of the game so much since Wrath that they changed the players expectations for the worse. Probably both.

I'll always contend that MMO's are always at their best when the players are the content since without the social aspect MMO's are flaccid versions of single player games of the same genre. When content was gated behind the need to join a good guild and be a good citizen of your server WOW was at it's peak.

I totally disagree... LFR is NOT about progression... it's to give raiders, yes raiders insight into new raids/bosses to develop strategies for regular 10/25 man guild runs. I know I have continued to play WoW (now going on 7 years) mainly due to the social aspect of the game and I don't see how that has been diminished... I think improvements have been made to the game to satisfy newcomers as well as lifers... that has to be expected given the age of this game. Nowadays I play to raid with guildies. Players who are serious about the game, and there are millions, thrive on the guilds and raiding as a guild.
As far as Blizz making changes motivated by the mighty dollar... this game is a business and the only reason WoW exists and continues to exist is because it's a cash cow for Blizzard... anyone with a grade 9 level economics education can understand that...
90 Undead Rogue
10140
01/23/2013 09:12 AMPosted by Schwarzkopf
I'm not sure how I feel about even more rng being added to loot tables. I already haven't seen a weapon from empress or tsulong in 9 kills/coins, but now I have to hope the item to drop and for it to be thunderforgerd?


I'm still waiting for a sha touched weapon after 36 rolls in ToES (2 bosses, 2 chances per boss per week, 8 weeks).

RNG is RNG, but jeez it sucks.


that's 32 buddy... good try though, still bad luck
90 Draenei Shaman
11495
When LFR was released, it was said it was being made for people to see the content. Just because people that don't raid, feel like they deserve better gear, doesn't matter. That is what LFR is for, to SEE content, stop trying to take more and more, and be content with getting that. So far I have seen Blizzard give casuals everything they want, and they still are not happy with that.
90 Human Death Knight
11815
This may or may not help 25s to come back.
It will proly help on high pop realms where groups can get 25 people dedicated to raid, but in other realms like mine Ravenholdt wich is prety much dead, and nobody likes raiding is really hard even to make a 10man raiding guild there's only 4 guilds that did atleast msv normal in the aliance.
So i think blizzard could let people do cross realm current content but only 25 man normal / heroic, because LFR is really a joke to do and it makes worst the game because there is always people that make it bad.
90 Dwarf Warrior
0
01/23/2013 09:00 AMPosted by Crithto
A 25-player raid takes an extra level of logistical commitment for the officers of those groups.


Nice to see some props from a blue for 25 man groups.
90 Undead Mage
8925
ive play wow for awhile now and just started again in reguards to loot and 25 mans bliz should change the format altogether 10 mans 20 mans 30 mans for the the extra 5 players is hard to find somtimes and is odd. imo if you drop the 5 extra players 10 man guilds can play with other 10 man guilds for a crack 20 man run. a simple scenario 10 friends can gear up then have a go with another 10 that are more advanced, just a thought. :)
90 Draenei Paladin
11605
i think a better solution would be TO MERGE REALMS ya i said it. there is no way we could ever hope to recruit 15 more people to raid with on my server we can barely recruit backups for 10 mans. i would love to do 25 mans but, realm pops the way they are are the biggest hurdle imo.

the only reason we havent had realm merges yet is cause blizz likes making money everytime someone gets fed up enough to xfer.
90 Draenei Paladin
11605
i feel like if LFR was to see content there is no need for it to be current rhey could release the LFR version after a new instance comes out, that would get alot more people back into at least normal modes IMO.
100 Night Elf Priest
15955
This may be a little late and probably has already been said but I don't read every post on the forums and just came across this one.

I have no problem with there being more loot drops in 25 man raids but I don't think the drop raid should be more than 5% higher than 10 man.

Just having more loot drop in 25 man raids is not going to fix the problem of the decline of 25 man raiding. It will help fix it but it will take more than just increasing loot. Another thing that would also help would be to bring back the independent raid cooldowns for 10 and 25 man raids so that a person could raid in a 10 man raid and also do a 25 man raid on the same toon.

10 mans are working for many guilds and they have good core groups why would they want to spend hours in trade chat trying to fill out a 25 man when that time could have been spent in the raid?

Why would a guild that has a 10 man want to spend weeks or months recruiting 15 more people when they could be out playing the game instead.

The logistics of putting together and maintaining a good 25 man raid is what has lowered its popularity just like 40 man raids where a logistical nightmare.

It is just easier to get 10 people together on the same days at the same time of day than it is to get 25...that is just the plain simple truth of the matter. This is especially true for people on lower population servers.

What can be done to fix that?
Combine some servers but if that is not the answer you want then make it possible for cross realm raiding.

The problem with cross realm raiding however would be that a person on one server in a guild that does 10 mans would not be able to raid with his guild if that person raided 25 mans cross realm but if the 10 man and 25 man could be independent of the raid cooldown that would not be a problem.
Edited by Eireeyes on 3/5/2013 10:38 PM PST
90 Orc Warrior
4245
This sounds like an excellent idea. Though many would disagree, adding Thunderforged armor to LFR is not that bad of an idea either. I have never had the time to dedicate myself to a guild or raiding team to get the "top tier" items of the season. The LFR is great way for those who can not dedicate that amount of time to raiding to get decent gear without having to sacrifice a substantial part of their off-time to a game.

But, for those who are the hard-core raiders, I understand the conflict. Your hard work and dedication can be overlooked or under-appreciated if regular persons, such as myself, obtain the same Item Level gear that you have with a fraction of the time invested.

End result though, I still end up with better gear than I had before. Though I did all LFR raids (post 5.2) up to the first 3 bosses of Throne of Thunder (used 3 mogu tokens), including Sha and Galleon, I only received 2 pieces of gear that week (only one item that I benefited from). So, it is disheartening to complete all of those and wind up with items of less quality than you already had. This is why I would like to have better items drop so that I feel my time invested isn't a waste especially with the supposed "better drop rates" with 5.2.

Just my thoughts.
I hate this change. I'm in a small guild that struggles to keep together a consistent 10-man raid; real life friends and family. Despite this we have several members (myself included) who occasionally crack the top-ten geared list for our class and realm in wowprogress. Silly, but still kind of a source of pride. A small casual guild that can still match up with the big dogs.

I guess now, the upper tier of gear is largely reserved for those in the Wal-Mart guilds. And I have a choice to make.

I wish they'd stop telling me how I'm supposed to play the game.
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