Retribution sustained dps in PvE

100 Troll Mage
17020
01/23/2013 01:38 PMPosted by Arte
After going back and reading the thread completely, I'm glad that the majority of posters here are sane :)


This thread was very pleasant to read. I am hoping it continues this way.
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90 Human Paladin
10930
I actually like HoW being tied to AW. It makes AW more interesting than just a flat 20% damage boost and flashy butterfly wings. Not sure why you want HoW to be unlinked from AW so it can hit harder. Ask warriors how much they like doing meh damage for the first 80% of a fight only to skyrocket when they reach Execute range. There are better ways to buff Ret without making it less interesting.
Edited by Sliphe on 1/23/2013 9:06 PM PST
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90 Draenei Paladin
2795
I was just joshing around. I think good Rets know we just need a tad bump in sustained to feel fully balanced. I'd really just like to see a ret in one of the cutting edge guilds...then I would know we've gotten a fair deal.
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90 Draenei Paladin
2795
Only question is...does he get to play ret on progression kills. Even if...what's the representation of Ret at that level?

Sexy !@# gear though...and look at those stats!
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90 Draenei Paladin
2795
01/23/2013 10:42 PMPosted by Lobster
Yes he was ret for progression.


Very cool stuff. I wonder where he falls on the meters...on average of course. Same with you Lobster...you're fairly high level compared to most Rets. DO you think we're warranted a slight sustained dps boost (given it doesn't jack up our burst)?
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90 Draenei Paladin
2795
01/23/2013 11:46 PMPosted by Lobster
While I firmly believe our mechanics are solid and our scaling feels right, I won't say no to more sustained. That's an easy thing to address though. Our rotation and cooldowns certainly don't need the overhaul people are suggesting.


That is exactly why I suggested the devs target Censure. As noted above, with enough haste our rotation pans out just fine and itemizing stats seems relatively uncomplicated the way things are atm.

I'd like to hear your take on how the slight nudge up in dps could be achieved. How much is the right ammount? At your gear level, compared to other melee dps classes, how do things pan out now and what would you like to see changed? I'm only raiding 10-man normal content...and that started 2 weeks ago, so my gauge on what changes should be made is somewhat limited I'll have to admit...but the Censure boost seems like the easiest solution in theory.
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100 Draenei Shaman
5190
Ret only needs a small bump, so if I were typing in blue text I would buff Censure by 18%, to 11.1% of SP per stack. Since Censure is 9% of Ret's total damage, that would be a ~1.6% total buff, which would put the spec solidly in the middle of the pack.

Of course devs don't do small buffs like that very often. They tend to go for big, visible changes to correct (or really, over-correct) for representation or performance. They probably don't think it's worth the effort of such a small correction when new encounters in T15 are likely to change comparative rankings anyway. GC makes twitter and forum posts about 5% not really mattering one way or the other, and 1.5% is much less than 5%.

I disagree. I think small corrections are worthwhile. That's why I'd go with an 18% buff to Censure. But I don't write in blue, so that's not worth much.
Edited by Slant on 1/24/2013 1:36 PM PST
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90 Human Paladin
14125
I think having TV go Holy damage based on weapon damage would be a good buff overall. Think about 275% weapon damage as Holy damage.
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100 Human Warrior
14735
01/24/2013 02:27 PMPosted by Judgebringer
I think having TV go Holy damage based on weapon damage would be a good buff overall. Think about 275% weapon damage as Holy damage.


Yeah that'd be OP. Removing Armor (what making it purely holy would do) is nearly doubling damage. You'd go from critting 150k with HoL procs of 60k, to critting 250k with HoL procs of 100k. To balance that they'd have to cut down how often you get to use TV drastically, probably going back to the Cata model where Judgement doesn't generate holy power, and maybe taking away a few other toys as well.

Edit: Oh wait, forgot inquisition would affect TV then, since it's holy. So it's actually like 325k, with 130k HoL procs. aka your standard TV would be hitting about as hard as a 5 stack TFB powered Heroic Strike.
Edited by Secondwind on 1/24/2013 2:51 PM PST
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88 Blood Elf Warlock
0
Oh come on now it wouldn't hit quite that hard... you would never see the 130k HoL hits because the target would be dead!

If you wanted to balance TV to hit as all holy like that then you would have to remove HoL and scale the weapon damage down a bit. I actually like the idea because with HoL the actual TV doesn't feel like it hits hard. Everything still happens all at once so it really doesn't change anything.
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90 Human Paladin
14125
01/24/2013 02:50 PMPosted by Secondwind
I think having TV go Holy damage based on weapon damage would be a good buff overall. Think about 275% weapon damage as Holy damage.


Yeah that'd be OP. Removing Armor (what making it purely holy would do) is nearly doubling damage. You'd go from critting 150k with HoL procs of 60k, to critting 250k with HoL procs of 100k. To balance that they'd have to cut down how often you get to use TV drastically, probably going back to the Cata model where Judgement doesn't generate holy power, and maybe taking away a few other toys as well.

Edit: Oh wait, forgot inquisition would affect TV then, since it's holy. So it's actually like 325k, with 130k HoL procs. aka your standard TV would be hitting about as hard as a 5 stack TFB powered Heroic Strike.

Actually I was thinking like how Warriors would ignore armor with Colossus Smash. But Retribution doesn't have any hard hitting abilities as it is, unlike Warriors which have a plethora of abilities that hit hard.

Could you know make it a proc, like our new 4 set bonus. So it wouldn't happen ever time we use TV. Wouldn't mind exchanging that proc for our Exorcism proc. Especially since I have a lot of moments when it procs and just so happens Exorcism is off cool down. Very helpful.
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100 Human Warrior
14735
01/24/2013 05:07 PMPosted by Judgebringer
Actually I was thinking like how Warriors would ignore armor with Colossus Smash.


Warriors have collosus smash because otherwise 100% of our damage is physical. Paladins have a lot of holy damage, armor already doesn't affect them much.

01/24/2013 05:07 PMPosted by Judgebringer
But Retribution doesn't have any hard hitting abilities as it is, unlike Warriors which have a plethora of abilities that hit hard.


TV hits plenty hard already. Seriously, I have a Paladin with a blue weapon and mid 470s ilvl, who crits for 115k TV outside of cooldowns. With cooldowns it crits upwards of 150-170k. Add an extra 40% on top of that for Hand of Light, and that's an ability that is already hitting really hard. Yes, its damage is even comparable to warrior abilities now that TFB doesn't give a ridiculous boost to HS anymore. I really don't get what more you want.
Edited by Secondwind on 1/24/2013 6:19 PM PST
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90 Human Warlock
12440
I'm with you on inquisition. Let me get this straight... our seals got reworked so we wouldn't constantly be re-applying a 30 second buff... and all these years later we have permanent seals, and yet another 30 second buff that has to be constantly re-applied. the circle of blizzard logic...
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90 Human Paladin
14125

TV hits plenty hard already. Seriously, I have a Paladin with a blue weapon and mid 470s ilvl, who crits for 115k TV outside of cooldowns. With cooldowns it crits upwards of 150-170k. Add an extra 40% on top of that for Hand of Light, and that's an ability that is already hitting really hard. Yes, its damage is even comparable to warrior abilities now that TFB doesn't give a ridiculous boost to HS anymore. I really don't get what more you want.

If there is one ability that could use a buff, it's TV. The damage from 270% weapon damage is a bit high, but maybe something like 190% weapon damage plus 997 as Holy?
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