Why ret?

90 Blood Elf Paladin
10750
OP be sure to read the patch notes for changes coming in the patch. Some of the things you talk about are getting changed:

Warriors: Defense stance now only decreases damage taken by 15% instead of 25%. Also overpower costs 10 rage in the current build which would cause rage starvation if they only sit in defensive stance. Second wind no longer heals while a warrior is stunned. Heroic strikes propped by taste for blood are gone. Shockwave now has 40 second cd (was 20), the cd is reduced by 20 if it hits 3 or more. Warbringer stun will be on diminishing returns with other stuns like shockwave, storm bolt, and other class equivalents.

Feral druid: Cyclone has a 30 second cd (was no cd) and now shares diminishing returns with a bunch of other cc it did not used to. Displacer beast no longer puts the druid in prowl.

The answer to your question is play what you like because things change all the time.
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90 Human Paladin
5785
I thought the direct FoL buff only applies to self healing?

And it's not instant anymore right?
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90 Dwarf Paladin
12730
Talents

Selfless Healer Your successful Judgments and Holy Shocks reduce the cast time and mana cost of your next Flash of Light by 35% per stack and improves its effectiveness by 35% 20% per stack when used to heal others. Stacks up to 3 times. Paladin - LvL 45 Talent.


Still looks instant, to me.


Retribution

Sword of Light Increases the damage you deal with two-handed melee weapons by 10%. Your spell power is now equal to 50% of your attack power, and you no longer benefit from other sources of spell power. Grants 6% of your maximum mana every 2 sec. Increases the healing done by Word of Glory by 30% and Flash of Light by 100%. Paladin - Retribution Spec.


Still looks like all uses of FoL, to me.
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100 Tauren Paladin
11215
Why not? Ive tried playing my Alt Warrior and Alt DK (tried to get into druids but I always lost interest around lvl 25 or so) and I have an alt rogue....I dont like any of them as much as I love my pally...Loved Ret since it was subpar in BC, loved it when it was OP as hell in Wrath and through to now... honestly if our healing power on ourselves is increased a bit I think it will be good... the damage isnt OP but its not horrible either.... Ive dabbled with Holy in PvP and Tanking as well but Ret overall feels so smooth and polished now, it just needs its defenses/survival buffed and itll kick !@# again :)
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
14120
Because I like my choice of class/spec. I need no other reason.
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90 Human Paladin
9970
I thought the direct FoL buff only applies to self healing?

And it's not instant anymore right?

It affects any FoL, not just self-healing, and it's still instant with 3 stacks. Before including PvP power, this works to a ~50% buff for self-FoLs, and ~20% buff for 3-stack ally-targeted FoLs. Just tested it on PTR myself to confirm.
Edit: If we include the PvP power change in there, assuming 50% PvP power, it's more like a 75% buff for self and 35% for allies.
Edited by Ravicana on 1/23/2013 7:51 PM PST
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90 Dwarf Paladin
12730
Wish that FoL buff would go live before 5.2; Tsulong needs my heals!
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90 Human Paladin
9970
Tell Tsulong to stack less stam and more mitigation; he's a mana sponge!
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90 Dwarf Paladin
12730
What mitigation? You'd think a slender wyrm that can only fly would have more dodge than 7.5% expertise could negate!
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90 Human Paladin
5785
01/23/2013 07:50 PMPosted by Grôgnárd
Wish that FoL buff would go live before 5.2; Tsulong needs my heals!


They've given up on trying to fix us for the season... lol
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90 Human Warrior
5980
I put a lot of thought into Ret as my alt class for PVP next patch. Set up my 85, put on his binds and wacked a dummy for a few minutes. Thought about the utility/bubbles/healing/inq and realized that I have too many damn tools to keep track of. It sorta feels like you guys need to be refined in retribution, it's hard to say exactly what that means or how to accomplish it.

I want to have a class that provides off heals but the retribution paladin feels a bit 'vanilla'. When you heal you're healing and when you're attacking you're attacking. Where as Monks supposedly can heal while attacking, which seems a bit more attractive for people wanting to keep their keybinds a tad more simple.
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90 Tauren Paladin
10935
My first toon to ever hit a level cap. I love watching arguably the Best burst in the game PvE wise. I never see anything but a shaman come close to my burst (In MoP) in similar gear.
From the PvP standpoint. Ret is alot of fun most of the time. Though, spamming WoG kinda sucks when your'e low on hp ='(
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90 Draenei Paladin
6485
I agree, the paladin class has not changed much at all compared to other classes and some of its utility's seeming kind of "outdated" .

>But you guys make all make valid arguments .
>but i feel WoG can feel a bit useless at times .
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90 Human Paladin
9770
The reason we all stick with ret is because it is the most fun/fluent rotation to play out of any of the melee classes

Without cds we can kill stupid players (unless they are geared idiots, in which case its difficult) and with cds, we can kill most players

We will come in the top of the damage charts for bgs almost every game, and come out with decent healing too

We are relatively strong in PvE (with 4pc) and we can manage in arena with the right comp

That being said, our consistent damage is weak, what little burst is in our regular rotation comes from hard switching between targets with Double Jeopardy, which isn't very good when training a healer in arena/rbg. We are a strong/fun class.....in randoms, but gl getting into a competitive rbg group unless you either have a friend with an rbg team, or an amazing caller
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
13415
Yeah, people saw "Selfless Healer's effectiveness reduced to 20% per stack" and assumed it meant everything including the cast time, which to be fair was an easy mistake to make.

But nope: cast time and mana cost is still reduced by 35%, while healing effectiveness is boosted by 20%. The FoL change with PvP Power boosted my healing from around 30-33k to about 55-57k, which is pretty decent.

As for OP, I play Ret because I love the class and spec. Nuff said.

Edit: Oh, before I forget:

Sure we can Stun and blind, but compare that to a feral or a warriors cc
We have survivabilty, but what about a warriors Defensive stance and second wind.


Shockwave got nerfed unless in mass AoE situations, Feral got their Cyclone nerfed as well. Warrior survivability took a big hit with Defensive stat being nerfed. Notice, besides Holy, that we're one of the few specs on the 5.2 PTR without any major nerfs?
Edited by Jackishi on 1/24/2013 8:16 AM PST
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90 Tauren Paladin
10935
01/24/2013 08:13 AMPosted by Jackishi
that we're one of the few specs on the 5.2 PTR without any major nerfs?

As a spec, have we been nerfed at all? As a class, holy obviously has been nerfed, but has ret really been hurt in any way from 5.1 to 5.2?
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
7060
The ONLY reason I still play my ret is because it's the class I started out as and I have invested the most time into it.

That's really the only reason. We suck compared to the other classes. Just being honest.
Edited by Angelista on 1/24/2013 8:54 AM PST
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
13415
01/24/2013 08:27 AMPosted by Egopally
that we're one of the few specs on the 5.2 PTR without any major nerfs?

As a spec, have we been nerfed at all? As a class, holy obviously has been nerfed, but has ret really been hurt in any way from 5.1 to 5.2?


Not at all, buffed really in terms of healing. PvE wise, we're generally still the same, which is both a little good, a little bad, though regardless of what people think, the devs are listening to us (they proved it by first giving us a more interesting T15 bonus with Divine Storm in response to people feeling sad about not using DS as much and reverting it when people gave their feedback and were worried about the bonus).
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90 Human Paladin
5770
01/23/2013 07:38 PMPosted by Ilsevele
Because I like my choice of class/spec. I need no other reason.


You have my next transmorg set....
Gimme!

Can you solo all those instances for those drops?
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100 Tauren Paladin
11215
A change I would love to see to give Ret some unique utility that holy doesnt have is allow for Ret only, to have Hand of Freedom Remove Stuns as well when self cast, also allow hand of freedom to remove stuns AND fear effects when used on teammates....not sure if this would make clemency a must take talent (then again isnt it almost a must take now?) but it would give the spec a unique ability that would be very very useful to have on your team.

Honestly I think Ret is almost there, the feel of the spec is great, its fluid fast and fun, the new mobility is great, being able to have a slow is awsome and now in 5.2 they are bringing our survivability up a few notches, honestly im fine with the damage as it is now, just a few more tweaks like the one I suggested and the spec would be in a good place I think :)
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