Hunter Workshop

90 Draenei Hunter
Hello Undermine. I'd like to try something that I've been thinking about for awhile. Now, I'd like to preface this thread by saying I know I'm probably opening myself up to forum trolls, flames and just plain gtfo posts, but I'm a big boy and figure I can handle it. Also, this isn't a "I'm better than you, bow before me" type of thread, nor is it about me trying to stroke my ego or lord myself over anyone.

The main reason I want to do this is to offer Hunters on the server a chance to improve themselves, or at the very least, help them understand the class a little better. Like most of you, I run LFR every week and I end up running with other Hunters who, maybe even with decent gear, just aren't pulling the dps they want to. I've gotten numerous whispers during those runs from other Hunters asking why they're so far behind or they feel they should be pulling higher dps but just don't know why. Between bosses I'll try to look over their gear, talents etc or look over my Recount data and try to pinpoint what the issue is. Most of the time I at least try to give them a starting point as to where the problem is and give them some suggestions on how to improve.

But sometimes their problems are bigger than what I can try to fix in the 10-20 min LFR. So after a few weeks of this happening, I thought to myself maybe there's something I can do, even if it's just the Hunters on my server. We've all done LFR or some random Heroic where the dps was just horrible. Some people will just start blasting them, telling them how aweful they are without trying to explain why, other people may want to say something but feel it's a waste of their time. However, if they don't know why they're dps (or healing, tanking for that matter) is terrible, how are they supposed to fix it? And that is what this really all boils down to.

When I started playing my Hunter back at BC release, and more to the point, when I started raiding, I had no idea what I was doing. At the time I thought I was doing "ok", not horrible but not great either. It wasn't until I joined a raiding guild that I, in fact, didn't have a freaking clue what I was doing. Lucky for me, there was a Hunter already in the guild when I joined that DID know what he was doing and was kind enough to take me under his wing (thanks Zhe!) and show me the ropes.

I know there's a lot of people on this server (and off for that matter) that look down on anyone who plays or raids on Undermine. They feel we're all a bunch of noobs/terrible players that couldn't play their way out of a paper bag. But, I can tell you first hand that isn't true. There have been plenty of players that either started their WoW career or have been on this server that are now in top US or World ranked guilds. In fact, there are a few people playing on this server right now that were in high ranked guilds at some point. My point is, just because people are on Undermine doesn't automatically make them noobs or terrible players. We all have to start somewhere.

Honestly, I think the main reason why most Hunters (or players in general) may not be as good as they can be is, they just don't know. I can't tell you how many times I've explained to someone the importance of proper gemming or why crit is better than haste etc, only to find out they had no idea it was a big deal or even worse someone told them something that was completly false and they think that's the way it's supposed to be.

Therein lies the crux of the problem. Lack of knowledge. Just because someone doesn't know something, doesn't mean they're stupid or dumb, it's that they just didn't know. People are real quick to point out when someone sucks or is a terrible player, but won't take the time to help them. Usually, in the time it took you to insult that person you could have helped them out instead.

Having said all that, what is this whole thing all about? Basically what I'm trying to do is help the Hunters on Undermine improve ther knowledge about their class. Knowledge is power as they say.

So, here's what I'd like to try. If you (or if you know of a Hunter) that's struggling with their dps or maybe you (or they) just want to ask me some questions, feel free to send them my way. You can send me an in game mail, or whisper me if I'm online. I'll look over your (or their) armory (or if you have WoL that would help too) and I'll try to help in anyway I can.

I know some people are going to ask "what do you get out of this?, why even bother?" and my answer to that is: absolutley nothing. I'm not charging anything nor am I trying to pump myself up as the greatest Hunter thats ever lived. I simply have way, way to much time on my hands and I enjoy talking "shop" (just ask anyone in the guild :P).

Hopefully this little experiment (and that's exactly what this is) works out. If not, then at least I gave it my best shot.
Edited by Varick on 1/20/2013 3:40 AM PST
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13 Night Elf Druid
this is a long way to refer someone to wol/mrrobot/icy veins

why did you type all of that
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90 Draenei Hunter
Well that didn't take long. Less than an hour and already have a troll post. Not unexpected though.

Before I answer your question, let me ask you this: do you think this thread was aimed at someone who could interpret WoL or break down stat conversion on reforge sites or understand cooldown managment or even know about the sites in the first place?

The answer to that is no. I made this thread because I wanted to reach out to those Hunters that want to improve their overall gameplay, but maybe don't know where to start or maybe they feel embarassed to make a post on the forums in fear of getting made fun of.

I made this thread for those Hunters that may even already be raiding, but just want to try and squeeze every bit out of their dps but not sure how to. Or maybe a raid leader has a Hunter in their raid group, likes the hunter, but his dps just isn't cutting it but doesn't want to kick them.

I realize this is a strange concept to some. I mean, why would someone just volunteer their time without getting anything out of it? For me, I like the Hunter class. But, and despite what most people might think, it's not an easy class to master. This isn't BC Hunter "spam steady shot macro" anymore.

Hopefully that cleared up any questions you might have.
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90 Human Warlock
It's great to hear you're doing this for the players of Undermine. I like to see this type of community on Undermine. Let's keep it up!

Varick is an extremely accomplished hunter, and I would urge players to seek advice and help from him.

As for help about warlocks, I could offer my services as affliction. I know that spec like the back of my hand, but when it comes do demonology or destruction, I am well versed, but not a master of it quite yet. Either way, I would love to help other warlocks. I don't have as much time as I would like, but I would like to squeeze in some help any way I can.

Thank you Varick!
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90 Undead Mage
Not a bad idea at all Varick. It would be a good way to help others out on our little server. Likewise, if anyone would like assistance with mages, I would be happy to provide some. Even you, you filthy alliance scumbags!
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100 Troll Hunter
You, me. Hunter Throw Down.

Good post all in all though :D
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90 Human Death Knight
01/20/2013 12:39 PMPosted by Iysdexia
You all suck.

cute transmog
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90 Draenei Hunter
Thanks for kind words Tulzurak and Veloth. And by all means, if you wanna try it with your respective classes then I say go for it. Contrary to what Lysdexia might think, we don't all suck. There's a lot of knowledgeable people on this server, and I'm sure they wouldn't mind helping someone out if they asked for it.

To Razir: you name the time and place, although you should know I haven't really pvp'ed on my Hunter in a long, long time :p

This whole idea/experiment could fail miserably. But in the end, it doesn't really hurt anyone and I think if it spawns other people doing it, I can only think of the positive it could bring to the server as a whole.
Edited by Varick on 1/20/2013 10:18 PM PST
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100 Human Priest
Varick, this is a really cool idea and I salute you for offering your time and attention to help anyone interested in feedback from an accomplished player.

Belated grats on your shiny new title.
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90 Draenei Hunter
Thanks Alzihm, much appreciated. I'm really proud of what this guild has managed to accomplish on 9hrs of raiding a week.

We'll see if this works like I hope it will. And as I said above, if it spreads to other seasoned players willing to give up their time, then that would be a nice bonus.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
Good for you Varick. Undermine doesn't half use these forums as constructively as they could. I'll be sure to check back here when I get around to leveling my hunter from 82-90 (Supaka) who I played through BC/Wotlk religiously as my main.
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90 Draenei Hunter
Thanks Sindis, and yeah anytime you want to talk, send me a whisper and I'll be glad to help. Have fun :)
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90 Human Warrior
Step 1;
Hit Rating and Expertise Rating (until 7.5% each);
Critical Strike Rating;
Haste Rating;
Mastery Rating.

Step 2;
Apply Hunter's Mark on the target.
Apply and maintain Serpent Sting to the target
it will be refreshed by Cobra Shot so it only needs to be done once, normally.
Cast Kill Command on cooldown.
Cast Kill Shot (only available below 20% health).
Cast Focus Fire when your pet's Frenzy reaches 5 stacks (the icon will glow)
do not cast Focus Fire if you are about to use Bestial Wrath (see below)
The DPS difference between using Focus Fire wisely and not using it at all (i.e., having your pet have 5 stacks of Frenzy at all times) is practically non-existant.
Cast Arcane Shot to dump any excess focus.
Cast Cobra Shot.

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90 Undead Mage
why can't vidas start his own pathetic thread instead of having to piggyback onto varick's thread just to try to get attention. maybe there's a website out there that can walk vidas through it step by step.
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100 Troll Hunter
Vidas: Arguable that KS gets priority of KC even during the last 20%. Oh and mix Rapid Fire in there somewhere and you're good.

But for BM and SV its Crit > Mastery >Haste.
Edited by Razir on 1/22/2013 4:31 PM PST
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90 Draenei Hunter
Vidas: Fundamentally, no you're not wrong (although their are a few points I would change i.e. haste>mastery for one) however, there's more to mastering the Hunter class than what you just listed.

If it was just that easy, every Hunter would be topping the meters. For example here are a few things I could think of that a person new to the Hunter class, or someone who doesn't know about EJ, FD wouldn't necessarily know:

When do you go for socket bonuses?

If you pick up 2 LFR tier pieces, is it better to go for 2pc with lower item level or keep your your 489 or higher items?

What opening rotation do you use when SV? BM?

With stampede, which pets should you bring, what abilities will they use/not use when called?

Does Rapid Fire increase pet attack speed? Should you stack Rapid Fire with other abilities such as Heroism/Bloodlust?

If 2 mobs are present, do you (as SV) Multi-Shot to apply Serpent Sting, or do you apply to both without using Multi-Shot? With 3 mobs, do you ignore regular rotation, or spam Multi-Shot to keep Serpent Sting applied? At 4 or more mobs?

Dire Beast vs Fervor vs ToTH? Which is better? AMoC vs Lynx Rush?

I could go on and on (and I do mean on and on lol) but you get my point. There are, as with every class, certain nuances that many new or uninformed players just might not know about. If it was just as easy as what you typed out, then I wouldn't have even bothered with the thread in the first place.

I'm simply trying to say, that while what you've said in this thread (and the other about the askmrrobot link) aren't necessarily wrong, there's more to this the just what's on the surface.

I always welcome discussion when it comes to Hunter theorycrafting. It's hard to find people to who really enjoy the class or the finer points these days.
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90 Human Warrior
I'm not trying to be condescending I just feel your time would be better put towards teaching people to use the tools they have available to them as opposed to regurgitating what you learned from said tools. You want to help bads to not bad, which goes against their nature, but is something I can support none the less. Good luck, hopefully the server mergers will be soon.
Edited by Vidas on 1/22/2013 6:39 PM PST
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90 Draenei Hunter
I understand your point, and I agree showing people how to use FD, reforge sites (correctly) and understanding basic Hunter play is better than just telling them how. Like the old saying "give a man fish, feed him for a day, show him how to fish, feed him for a lifetime".

And I never took personal offense at your posts. I was simply trying to state my intentions as to why, while those tools you mentioned are out there, some Hunters don't know about them or don't know how to use them correctly.

In the end, this was just something to kill time between raid days, while maybe helping people improve their play and maybe have a little more fun in the process.
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