What killed Triage?

90 Troll Shaman
17270
For HPallies t11/t12 both had a lot of opportunity to Holy Light. Part of that was the fact that Pallies lacked AoE heals to spam and Holy Radiance had insane positional requirements (closer = bigger heals, but far people got minimal+DR'ed it) that made it impractical to use on anything but a perfectly stacked raid. So pallies had to pick, which individual to heal and whether to use DL or HL. In FL's some pallies (myself included) were casting 9:1 ratio of HL to DL.

I could see priests seeing it as same'old, same'old. They had a full toolbox of AoE heals and they just blanketed the raid with them, though they didn't have 2 sizes of PoH obviously, while Paladins were making choices on who to heal and for how much based on their mana and the targets need. Until the Holy Radiance "fix" for DS, that totally broke the way the class was played..
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90 Pandaren Monk
11615
For HPallies t11/t12 both had a lot of opportunity to Holy Light. Part of that was the fact that Pallies lacked AoE heals to spam and Holy Radiance had insane positional requirements (closer = bigger heals, but far people got minimal+DR'ed it) that made it impractical to use on anything but a perfectly stacked raid. So pallies had to pick, which individual to heal and whether to use DL or HL. In FL's some pallies (myself included) were casting 9:1 ratio of HL to DL.

I could see priests seeing it as same'old, same'old. They had a full toolbox of AoE heals and they just blanketed the raid with them, though they didn't have 2 sizes of PoH obviously, while Paladins were making choices on who to heal and for how much based on their mana and the targets need. Until the Holy Radiance "fix" for DS, that totally broke the way the class was played..


^^ Praise it man
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90 Night Elf Druid
15480
01/22/2013 01:28 PMPosted by Pitkanen
For HPallies t11/t12 both had a lot of opportunity to Holy Light.


Shamans were the same way as well. Especially in 10 man. Most of T11 and all of T12 were not stack friendly. As much as people hated it i liked healing FL 10 as a shaman. Was much more interesting.
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100 Night Elf Druid
14025
I was talking about this with my husband last night and we didn't come to any strong conclusions (other than we are a little worried what healing will be like the final tier of this xpac) but we both wondered if smart heals are really a good thing. Healing does need a some tweaking, like others I agree the fast heal/slow heal/big heal trio needs to die. The slow heal isn't good for anything, priests and shamans don't even cast them and the only reason druids and paladins *might* cast Nourish or Holy Light is because they are propped up by mastery/refreshing LB or Beacon. MoP has been hard on healers, it would good to see the toolbox trimmed up and slimmed down.
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91 Goblin Warlock
8710
I'm a little confused here: Is there some specific thing you guys keep referring to when you say triage?

Because I keep thinking of the literal concept of triage, which is obviously still a thing unless you're a disc priest.

MoP has been hard on healers, it would good to see the toolbox trimmed up and slimmed down.


I don't see how trimming the toolboxes would help at all here when one of the bigger problems here is that most healers only ever have a couple buttons worth pressing. Really that seems like the worst possible thing you could do at this stage.
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90 Troll Shaman
17270
Well triage was kinda defined by letting a few people hang low to heal someone who was hanging even lower, and not blowing your most powerful AoE/single target heal to immediately top them off. If you blew powerful heals too much you'd oom yourself.

The oom yourself is relatively gone. Spirit gems, mana tide (thanks to shaman's being good enough to bring into progression!), too much gear too quickly.

The spell choice is gone. What is your most Powerful AoE heal, that also happens to be much more efficient than single target heals... use that.

Constrast the cost and output of Heal vs GH vs PoH.
Constrast the cost and output of Rain vs Greater Healing Wave.

If I use my AoE heal inappropriately I should do less healing than someone who intellegently single target heals. At the moment, that couldn't be farther from the truth.
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90 Pandaren Monk
11615
After thinking about it I think there is two ways that Blizzard could bring back triage.

1. Gut out aoe healing spells expect for 1-2 very expensive heals
2. Add more healing spells that bring back triage. So a light slow aoe heal, heavy slow, fast and heavy.

Either would be fine imo and could be interesting, but currently as is. We will either be getting globaled every 3 seconds in the final tier or healing will be a joke.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
13110
After thinking about it I think there is two ways that Blizzard could bring back triage.

1. Gut out aoe healing spells expect for 1-2 very expensive heals
2. Add more healing spells that bring back triage. So a light slow aoe heal, heavy slow, fast and heavy.

Either would be fine imo and could be interesting, but currently as is. We will either be getting globaled every 3 seconds in the final tier or healing will be a joke.


Triage didn't work the first time, and lost them a lot of players. Their implementation of "triage" was horrible, boring, and unfun. Slow is boring, slow sucks. I hate slow. Downranking WORKED because you not only got a smaller, cheaper heal, but it made the small cheap heal FASTER than the higher ranks of the spell.

God, if we ever go back to Cata healing at the start, I'll freaking quit. It sucked.
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90 Pandaren Shaman
12025
People don't use Healing Wave anymore? That is news to me, I use it all the time. It's basically my fallback and be casting something spell, plus with the glyph it heals me too!

But then, I am most often tank healing due to our raid comp.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
13110
People don't use Healing Wave anymore? That is news to me, I use it all the time. It's basically my fallback and be casting something spell, plus with the glyph it heals me too!

But then, I am most often tank healing due to our raid comp.


It was always easier to use Healing Wave on a Shaman because of Tidal Waves. I still use Healing Wave on my Shaman, because it's cheap and fast thanks to Riptide.

Other healers don't have that option, and again, it sucks when you have no Haste to try to cast a 2.5 second heal. Ugh.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
7430
I don't even have Heal on my bars. I have not had it on there at any point this expansion.
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90 Pandaren Shaman
12025
Yeah my wonderment was shaman-specific. :P
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90 Blood Elf Priest
13110
01/22/2013 04:28 PMPosted by Qùess
I don't even have Heal on my bars. I have not had it on there at any point this expansion.


I tried using it once after reading Twistedmind's posts about how he heals extensively with it. After I lost a tank to spike damage, I said, "Nope."

Not that I enjoyed using Heal. I hate it. It's so long and pointless. It does so little healing for the amount of time you're standing around praying your cast bar will finish.
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100 Blood Elf Priest
12450
After thinking about it I think there is two ways that Blizzard could bring back triage.

1. Gut out aoe healing spells expect for 1-2 very expensive heals
2. Add more healing spells that bring back triage. So a light slow aoe heal, heavy slow, fast and heavy.

Either would be fine imo and could be interesting, but currently as is. We will either be getting globaled every 3 seconds in the final tier or healing will be a joke.


Triage didn't work the first time, and lost them a lot of players. Their implementation of "triage" was horrible, boring, and unfun. Slow is boring, slow sucks. I hate slow. Downranking WORKED because you not only got a smaller, cheaper heal, but it made the small cheap heal FASTER than the higher ranks of the spell.

God, if we ever go back to Cata healing at the start, I'll freaking quit. It sucked.

^
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MVP - World of Warcraft
90 Blood Elf Paladin
HC
0
01/22/2013 04:22 PMPosted by Tiriél
Triage didn't work the first time


Wrong.

01/22/2013 04:22 PMPosted by Tiriél
and lost them a lot of players.


Wrong.

01/22/2013 04:22 PMPosted by Tiriél
Their implementation of "triage" was horrible, boring, and unfun.


Your opinion, though.

Triage wasn't bad in Cataclysm, and while it's not as hard pressed as it was in Cataclysm now, it's certainly not a bad design paradigm.
________________________________________________
Healing Forum MVP
AKA. Practical
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90 Blood Elf Priest
13110
01/22/2013 05:32 PMPosted by Practical
Triage didn't work the first time


Wrong

and lost them a lot of players.


Wrong.


We'll have to agree to disagree on the subject, Practical. I'm pretty sure you already know my opinion and my experiences on the subject. I never saw Triage in a raid setting. Ever. So if Triage worked, I have no idea where it was working, because the raids I was in from Normal to Heroic content at the 25 man setting, Triage never existed.

01/22/2013 04:22 PMPosted by Tiriél
Their implementation of "triage" was horrible, boring, and unfun.


Your opinion, though.


It absolutely is my opinion. And it's an opinion that is shared by many other people, Practical, even if you don't share it. It was boring, slow, and mind-numbing. It sucked.

Triage wasn't bad in Cataclysm, and while it's not as hard pressed as it was in Cataclysm now, it's certainly not a bad design paradigm.
________________________________________________
Healing Forum MVP
AKA. Practical


And I'll say again, Triage never existed in raid content in Cataclysm. The only place it existed was in 5 man content, and even then all it seemed to do was inspire people to scream at healers when that stupidly slow, cheap, tiny heal didn't get the job done.
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90 Night Elf Druid
15480
01/22/2013 05:38 PMPosted by Tiriél
And I'll say again, Triage never existed in raid content in Cataclysm.


Chimerion, H V&T, Council to an extent, Chogall, Magmaw, omni,h maloriak were all triage fights early on.
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100 Blood Elf Priest
12450
01/22/2013 05:38 PMPosted by Tiriél
stupidly slow, cheap, tiny

I'll add "inefficient" to that.

Practical's experience may be colored by the fact that he mained a paladin, which is a special case: their small heal (1) was quite efficient, (2) interacted with their class mechanics, and (3) had high enough output to be usable in content that was challenging in some way other than mana-accounting.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
13110
Chimerion, H V&T, Council to an extent, Chogall, Magmaw, omni,h maloriak were all triage fights early on.


Chimeron's damage pattern meant that you spammed your fastest heal (Flash Heal, Healing Surge (before it was nerfed into oblivion), Flash of Light, Regrowth) on your designated target, because you couldn't afford to use that small, cheap, extremely slow heal and have them die.

H V&T? o_O There was so much damage going out in that fight I do not see how you can even rate that as "triage."

Cho'gall? The fight where the damage was so intense on Heroic that you had to coordinate raid CD's to survive it, and then spam heal everyone back up so they weren't gibbed by something else?

Magmaw? Magmaw was a Triage fight? Magmaw was a "spam the crap out of your best AOE because if you don't, you're going to lose people. You'll probably lose people anyway, but this is the best you can do. Oh, and god help the sucker moving with the kiters, because you're going to have to chain feed him Innervates to keep him going, as he tries desperately to spam and move."

Omni Heroic wasn't a Triage fight, and neither was Maloriak. I never stopped healing in Maloriak. I was constantly spamming my AOE in that fight, as fast as possible, especially during black phase.

Still don't see how Council was a Triage fight, but whatever.

Are you talking 10 or 25 man? I'm speaking from a 25 man scenario, but I do not recall a single fight where I was using the "triage model" when it was progression content. The damage was too damn high and you could not afford to let people get low. Did you OOM? Oh yes. Constantly. But what else was there to do? Triage would wipe your raid as surely as OOMing would.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
13110
01/22/2013 05:47 PMPosted by Kaels
stupidly slow, cheap, tiny

I'll add "inefficient" to that.

Practical's experience may be colored by the fact that he mained a paladin, which is a special case: their small heal (1) was quite efficient, (2) interacted with their class mechanics, and (3) had high enough output to be usable in content that was challenging in some way other than mana-accounting.


I can't ever stick to a Paladin long enough to experience the same, but you may be right.
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