5.2 Feral UpROAR; Dear Blizzard

90 Night Elf Druid
9810
Cyclone's range has been increased to 30 yards, up from 20, and it now has a 30-second cooldown for Feral Druids. In addition, it will now share diminishing returns with Banish, Seduction, Bind Elemental, Hex, Freezing Trap, Wyvern Sting, Gouge, Sap, Hibernate, Paralysis, Polymorph, Ring of Frost, Repentance, and Quaking Palm.


FIRST OF ALL
- Instant cyclone is what has kept Feral VIABLE in Arena environment, and BARELY acceptable, much less desirable in RBGs.

Now I appreciate you have to make changes to the game to please everyone, but this change is FAR too drastic and you end up ruining the balance of your own philosophy for making everyone happy, by completely stomping the Feral playerbase. Take a good look at the upper Feral representation of any bracket--Arena or RBG and tell me what do you see??
NO FERALS, WHOA. So how important is it that you nerf ferals' cyclone? All you see are resto druids up there right?? SO WHATS YOUR DEAL, we can't be THAT OP.

Please Blizzard, tell US, what will Ferals bring to the table now? What do we have to offer without instant cyclone? Where are you going with this?? And again as is common whenever I feel the need to post it's because of your failure to compromise on some seriously important changes.

What you didn't consider:

- Making cyclone a much smaller cooldown, 30 seconds is WAY too high, 10 seconds would be far more reasonable. (And I know you don't know this blizzard because any druid representative in their right mind upon reading patch notes would have told you "hey hey hey whoa whoa, hold on just a second.. you're doing WHAT?!")

- Why limit cyclone completely for 30 seconds? Why discourage hard-casting?? WELL!?!?!

- If cyclone shares DR with other cc now, then why not extend the duration to a full 7-8 seconds like polymorph? Because on DR a 5 sec cc is just disgraceful.

Because what happens:

Players use pvp trinkets to remove crowd control. So say I use an instant cyclone (assuming it'll still exist in 5.2 in any form) immediately pvp trinket pop, k now I.. insta root?? Hey that's cool, but it's.. just awful, maybe in season 1-4 yeah okay, but now just no, and I really needed that player to just fkn be cc'd for some duration. SO many ways to get out of it unless you're a warrior (who ironically blizzard you say are about mobility).

Also consider warlock and priest fears, no one thinks that's nearly as out of hand as feral cyclones??!?!?!?! Really?!!!?!? Honestly if you can tab target or focus target someone to use your predatory swiftness cyclone I think that qualifies as using skill in this game as far as skill goes in WoW and shouldn't we encourage that? More so than an aoe psychic scream, and pet who fears for you. Warlocks get an instant blood fear, what's the cd on that? 10 seconds. Then they can hard cast fears all they want, and guess what fear's rarely ever break from damage. SO BLIZZARD, WTF MAN?? YOU WANNA GO??! YOU WANNA GO, BRO!?!?

Sorry I'm just passionate about feral, and you really shafted us without a second thought here.

The bottom line:

If you are going to take something, you have to give something in return, you know, give and take. And especially if you're going to take something vital and core to our viability and demand. You MUST give a sufficient replacement for survivability/utility/cc because as of 5.2 we will have extremely little to offer. Look how much cool @#&! monks are getting!! HOLY UTILITY, Batman!!! Can we have some innovation thrown our way please while you're nerfing us??? We're not asking for OP stuff, just like you know, effort.

Please realize that you implemented instant cyclones for a reason once upon a time, and that all of the changes after that were balanced around instant cyclones in mind. So now we've been structured (defensive, offensive, mobility capabilities) around the ability to instant cyclone. And you just carved instant cyclone right outta there, leaving a gaping wound. OW. WHAT THE $&@?

While you are continuing to nerf class/specs please realize the importance of giving love where you taketh away, this not only holds true for balancing, but for the longevity of the class/spec at hand. I've seen some of the changes hitting warrior and it's kind of saddening to see them become so bland, PLEASE dont make any other class/spec bland and useless too.

"Nature's Vigil now has a 90-second cooldown, down from 3 minutes, and now increases damage and healing done by 10%, down from 20%."


*Looks at Avatar(+skullbanner), then back to Nature's Vigil..* Siiiiiiiiiiiigh......................

I realize how difficult it is to balance without homogenizing, but if you give each class/spec just 1 thing unique and important then you're balancing by way of making everyone unique, so you really aren't homogenizing in a harmful way.
Edited by Bluelegendx on 1/21/2013 3:55 PM PST
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90 Troll Druid
RoC
4865
So much righteousness.
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90 Night Elf Druid
9810
bumpy
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At first, I wasn't going to take you seriously and then I saw that "x" at the end of your name and thought "this guy is a bad !@#". I know now that you are totally legit. I think the only thing better than your name would be a Hunter with a name like "Snipershotx" or something along those lines. Also, if you think my post serves no purpose, consider it a bump.
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90 Troll Druid
8815
It really isn't that bad of a change to be completely honest. You have Roots/Hibernate/Heals that can be used with PS, so you aren't going to be less effective. What this change is going to do is make you choose your cyclones wisely, either defensive or going for a kill. In the meantime, you have your other ways of peeling targets.
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90 Night Elf Druid
12810
01/23/2013 09:44 AMPosted by Verze
It really isn't that bad of a change to be completely honest. You have Roots/Hibernate/Heals that can be used with PS, so you aren't going to be less effective. What this change is going to do is make you choose your cyclones wisely, either defensive or going for a kill. In the meantime, you have your other ways of peeling targets.


cyclone drs with hibernate, what good will it be?

he's right who in their right mind would take a feral over a rogue now that they are cata style again?
Edited by Galoott on 1/23/2013 10:21 AM PST
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90 Troll Druid
8815
People said that taking root shifting away would break them completely, but they were perfectly fine. I think every feral that simply throws cyclones out everywhere are going to cry about how they have to think about using it. Nobody wants to get nerfed, but it's completely within reason. Especially considering the nerfs warriors are getting.

Not to compare 'x' to 'y', but you have other uses of your PS procs. I feel like Blizzard wanted some sort of thought process when deciding what to use feral's procs on, instead of cycloning whichever targets you aren't training until complete DRs.

Feral's have more than just cyclone in their utility box, and come 5.2 you will have to decide who and when to clone.
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90 Night Elf Druid
5410
People said that taking root shifting away would break them completely, but they were perfectly fine. I think every feral that simply throws cyclones out everywhere are going to cry about how they have to think about using it. Nobody wants to get nerfed, but it's completely within reason. Especially considering the nerfs warriors are getting.

Not to compare 'x' to 'y', but you have other uses of your PS procs. I feel like Blizzard wanted some sort of thought process when deciding what to use feral's procs on, instead of cycloning whichever targets you aren't training until complete DRs.

Feral's have more than just cyclone in their utility box, and come 5.2 you will have to decide who and when to clone.


Exactly what this guy said. I'm starting to get really annoyed with people complaining that the Cyclone nerf will break the class because it's the only thing that made us viable. You couldn't be farther from the truth. Our utility box is so ridiculously huge, it makes Teldrassil look small.

Roots, Hibernate, Mighty Bash, Ursols Vortex, Typhoon, Faerie Fire, Pounce, Maim, Disorienting Roar, our melee abilities are even CCs.

Stop crying and learn to use other crap on your toolbar instead of whining about it.

"He who rejects change is the architect of decay."
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90 Night Elf Druid
7690
Cyclone was fdruids only real way of CC since forever. People keep forgetting that before there was instant cyclone ferals used to CAST cyclone....... I still cast cyclone and so do a lot of other ferals in this game. That is a CC druids should have in general no limitations. Hibernate/root works on a FRACTION of classes. What can we do about spell cleaves now root them? lol..... Survivability is already hard enough as it is, but to remove a ferals only chance of survival or usefulness is absolutely spec breaking. As people have already stated how many ferals do you see in the top brackets? None. So why nerf a class that is already struggling to gain momentum. Even people who hate ferals and have half a brain can see that is this going to 100% destroy the spec for PVP and make ferals more useless and unwanted than they already are now. OPEN YOUR EYES BLIZZ IF YOU DO SOMETHING THAT DRASTIC AT LEAST GIVE THE CLASS SOMETHING IN RETURN.
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90 Night Elf Druid
5410
01/23/2013 12:46 PMPosted by Julianirl
Cyclone was fdruids only real way of CC since forever. People keep forgetting that before there was instant cyclone ferals used to CAST cyclone....... I still cast cyclone and so do a lot of other ferals in this game. That is a CC druids should have in general no limitations. Hibernate/root works on a FRACTION of classes. What can we do about spell cleaves now root them? lol..... Survivability is already hard enough as it is, but to remove a ferals only chance of survival or usefulness is absolutely spec breaking. As people have already stated how many ferals do you see in the top brackets? None. So why nerf a class that is already struggling to gain momentum. Even people who hate ferals and have half a brain can see that is this going to 100% destroy the spec for PVP and make ferals more useless and unwanted than they already are now. OPEN YOUR EYES BLIZZ IF YOU DO SOMETHING THAT DRASTIC AT LEAST GIVE THE CLASS SOMETHING IN RETURN.


Drama queen.
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90 Tauren Druid
7700
01/23/2013 01:58 PMPosted by Sohra
Cyclone was fdruids only real way of CC since forever. People keep forgetting that before there was instant cyclone ferals used to CAST cyclone....... I still cast cyclone and so do a lot of other ferals in this game. That is a CC druids should have in general no limitations. Hibernate/root works on a FRACTION of classes. What can we do about spell cleaves now root them? lol..... Survivability is already hard enough as it is, but to remove a ferals only chance of survival or usefulness is absolutely spec breaking. As people have already stated how many ferals do you see in the top brackets? None. So why nerf a class that is already struggling to gain momentum. Even people who hate ferals and have half a brain can see that is this going to 100% destroy the spec for PVP and make ferals more useless and unwanted than they already are now. OPEN YOUR EYES BLIZZ IF YOU DO SOMETHING THAT DRASTIC AT LEAST GIVE THE CLASS SOMETHING IN RETURN.


Drama queen.


better tell the 2500+ guy he doesnt know what he is talking about.
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90 Night Elf Druid
9810
I'm a gladiator, julianirl is a 2600 player, I'm sure there are other experienced pvpers reading this, so the legitimacy of our concern for losing cyclone shouldnt be in question here.

Sohra I've seen you in the other thread and you're really not helping, if anything just trolling.
1550 achievement. Hm. Not that there's anything wrong with casual players but you're like if a mall cop tried to lecture marines on how to hold a gun properly.

If you dont want to see people complaining then you're in the completely wrong place to be, and of course it is wise to adapt to change, but not all change is good and these forums exist to unite ideas and arguments to thwart what blizzard might not realize is a bad idea.
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90 Night Elf Druid
9810
What I would like to encourage in this thread are other substitutes or solutions for Blizzard to read because that's what they tend to respond to. They only have so many minds on staff so we have more pull on the forums than most players think.

I agree with other people on the forums on the fact that losing our current cyclone is a huge disadvantage against casters. HUGE. And the general theme that we DO need something else to utilize if blizzard is going through with this nerf, because like it or not, cyclone is a HUGE part of feral pvp right now and it gives us a lot of our viability. Roots don't mean much these days unfortunately, and yes hibernate only works on other druids and hunter pets. So clearly this isn't enough. And our talents are great yes but ursol's vortex, bash, etc. aren't nearly as reliable or useful as cyclone is.
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90 Night Elf Druid
9810
And as it turns out that shapeshift nerf back in cata wasn't that bad a nerf, true. But only because we were compensated in the right areas (damage + increased berserk duration), and at the time dispells had no cooldown.

This time it's different because we are not being compensated in any area after this nerf.
So yeah it's a pretty big fish I guess.
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90 Night Elf Druid
10500
In all honesty as you've said a reduction on that cooldown or simply letting us hard cast it would be within reason. We can all admit that the extremely fast gain of PS procs during a non-peeled Berserk was a little... insane.

I myself was quite annoyed when I saw we wouldn't even be able to hard cast it, I mean really the chances of a melee class getting off that hard-cast clone is very minimal with today's arena playstyle; the mass amount of hard CC available on top of the obvious interrupt can easily stop it, so it's not like that would be game breaking.

The thing I would NOT want to see implemented on this however is something like a debuff you get keeping you from using clone with PS, last thing I need is to be even MORE predictable on when I'm going to be able to clone a target who I need to run a bit towards.

In regards to the vigil change, yes it was pretty good during Berserk and it will continue to be but I like the fact that I can set up burst windows outside of Berserk with onuse/tf/vigil if I'm playing with a class like spriest or mage that relies on no "Massive" cds, so I'm happy with that change myself. CD stacking for other classes definitely needs to be looked at though.

TL;DR: Lower CD, let us hard cast and I'm happy.
Edited by Kalse on 1/23/2013 4:28 PM PST
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90 Troll Druid
5480
With the crazy DR with other cc nerf to cyclone I honestly feel sorry for feral because of less comps people will be willing to play with them now kind of, as well as all druids in general especially balance since that is what i play. The 30 sec cooldown on predator swiftness cyclone for feral is fine, but they should be able to free cast it like every other druid, I think that would be balanced. Enhancement shamans have at least a 35 second cd on their hex at all times and they have less mobility, so 30 second CD on clones makes sense with as much damage a feral can put out.
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90 Troll Druid
8815
They are nerfing 1 ability out of the various other ways to peel/CC offensively and defensively. For the record, feral druids aren't the only ones taking some heavy nerfs. Warriors/locks are taking a fairly significant hit as well. If you say that this change will make feral hit rock bottom, you are completely naive.

To be honest, I wouldn't even consider this nerf that extreme compared to other things they could have questioned. As an example, they could have taken Bubble/Dispersion away from your symbiosis so you just get trained through skin/wall until you die just like boomkin/ele/enhance.
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90 Tauren Druid
19085
01/23/2013 12:00 PMPosted by Sohra
Stop crying and learn to use other crap on your toolbar instead of whining about it.


Most of it is useless. Hibernate? That's only useful against our own spec. Roots? GL ccing a caster with that.

The reason people are annoyed is not just because it's a nerf to CC, but a nerf to what comps we can run WITH that doesn't cripple us or them. You bring up maim as an alternative... but you need combo points, they're not going to rain out of the sky for you when you have to keep SR up and rip. Want to Peel a hunter off your healer? Oh crap, bash was dodged... and maim takes time to put up, but your cyclone is on CD for another 5 seconds. Now what?

I'm more irked at the set piece nerf we're getting. No more feral runspeed bonus, thanks to that stupid runspeed talent in t1. Which means we either have to choose between out of range errors but have a gap closer, or have no out of range errors without one. (and note, the nerf means we run slower without the talent than we have done since pvp set bonuses existed. We're getting a runspeed nerf for no reason)

And yes the rootshift nerf DID break feral... we were fat targets with absolutely no hope of killing jack all. The ONLY thing that fixed that marginally was when they bandaid added a rootbreak to dash and stamp roar, but the spec did not recover until late season when burst damage got out of hand again. It may have been fine for the top 30-40 ferals in the world.. but you'd have done a lot better with another spec or class guaranteed.
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90 Pandaren Shaman
8415
Have you posted something like this, or this, in the PTR or Damage Dealing forums? It will get more attention there.
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