Rogue PvP: Now and how it will change in 5.2

90 Undead Rogue
ok
12810
Currently, in the 5.1 patch the Rogue class really isn't in that bad of a spot. Let's take a look at how the changes affected us then. (Most, if not all of this post is taken from an arena perspective)

Blind Cooldown reduced to 90 Seconds from 180 Seconds (3 Minutes down to 1.5 Minutes)
  • More frequent access to our most reliable form of ranged CC.
  • Was brought down to a lower cooldown than the Medallion of Horde/Alliance/EMFH, allows us to set up kills much easier in an arena based situation.
  • Vanish Cooldown reduced to 120 Seconds from 180 Seconds (3 Minutes down to 2 Minutes)
  • More reasonable cooldown on our most reliable escape (vs. both physical and magic)
  • Can be used as an offensive cooldown more often (Sap out of X, Swap, etc.)
  • More frequent access to openers and/or re-openers.
  • Damage on Shuriken Toss doubled from more than 10 Yards away
  • Makes Shuriken Toss a viable choice in our level 90 tier of talents.
  • Allows for quick, efficient combo point generation at range.
  • Helps to finish off a kill even when peeled through novas/death grip/disarm.
  • Energy Cost of Burst of Speed reduced by 10 (60 Energy down to 50 Energy)
  • Helps in a minimal manner with energy starvation caused by this ability
  • Energy Cost of Kick reduced by 5 (15 Energy down to 10 Energy)
  • On top of PvP glove bonus, Kick will now cost 0 energy.
  • Wound Poison Damage increased by 33%
  • On top of passive healing nerfs in this patch, Wound Poison outshines Deadly Poison against most team compositions
  • Overall, in patch 5.1 major buffs can be seen through consistent damage in arena through Shuriken Toss (allowing us to deal moderate damage at range), buffs to mobility, defense, and utility through the Vanish Cooldown Reduction, and buffs to kill potential through the Blind Cooldown reduction. These buffs put us into a more viable position in the entire arena setting, however we were still lacking survivability through lack of available cooldowns.

    In the upcoming 5.2 Patch, the Rogue class got the buffs it needed, and more.

    Preparation made Baseline.
  • Gave Rogues the survivability that was needed through more cooldown uptime when necessary rather than simply reducing survival cooldowns further.
  • Allowed for most of our game-changing cooldowns to be reset on-demand, allowing for more defensive and offensive possibilities.
  • Ranged Auto attacks for 75% Damage added to Shuriken Toss from more than 10 Yards away.
  • Probably the most overlooked buff in the entirety of Rogue buffs in 5.2
  • Auto attacks add up to roughly 30-40% of our total damage. This allows us to do 23-20% of our total damage at range.
  • Sanguinary Veins now grants 20% Damage increase, up from 16%.
  • Slight buff to our overall damage, will be barely noticable in short bursts, but will make a substantial difference in long fights.
  • PvP 4 Set Bonus Changed: Vigor now grants 30 Energy, up from 10.
  • Huge buff to our openers, simply due to more energy to spend.
  • Allows for more energy to be pooled in preparation of a Shadow Dance/Kidney Shot
  • Overall, the buffs in patch 5.2 were a little bit over the top. All that was really needed (in my true, honest opinion) was preparation and possibly the energy increase. No damage buffs were needed, and we did NOT need ranged auto attacks through shuriken toss.

    Rogues, we have a very strong season ahead of us.
    Edited by Nessper on 1/22/2013 9:10 AM PST
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    100 Human Rogue
    10485
    I like you.
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    100 Undead Rogue
    11035
    01/22/2013 09:00 AMPosted by Nessper
    Rogues, we have a very strong season ahead of us.


    I look forward to it.
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    100 Human Rogue
    14220
    Forgot the change to glove bonus, giving 1% more healing from recup.
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    90 Undead Rogue
    ok
    12810
    01/22/2013 09:38 AMPosted by Freschetta
    Forgot the change to glove bonus, giving 1% more healing from recup.


    My apologies, I only included changes I thought were worthwhile/will make a serious impact.

    The glove change will do little to nothing considering the amount of finishers we have to keep up in SnD & Rupture.
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    100 Blood Elf Rogue
    7390
    they need to nerf 5.2 shuriken toss or leave it as it is ( in 5.1).
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    100 Human Rogue
    14220
    01/22/2013 11:05 AMPosted by Viiss
    they need to nerf 5.2 shuriken toss or leave it as it is ( in 5.1).


    nope

    Being a ranged class is about the only thing that will make rogues wanted in your average RBG. No one* wants melee anymore.

    *I know good teams will take rogues, and rogues are actually good, but Blizzard needs to overbuff us for awhile to overcome months of "Rogues suck lol". Same reason they are over buffing monks.
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    100 Blood Elf Rogue
    7390
    01/22/2013 11:10 AMPosted by Freschetta
    Being a ranged class is about the only thing that will make rogues wanted in your average RBG. No one* wants melee anymore.


    i managed to get up to 1950 rbg rating on a server that is entirely dead.
    people bring rogues for smoke bomb, sap cap, and our dance burst.

    you also said: "no one wants melee anymore"
    please tell me you are kidding.... DKs are are loved in RBG's and warriors are pretty good as well.
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    100 Human Rogue
    14220
    Being a ranged class is about the only thing that will make rogues wanted in your average RBG. No one* wants melee anymore.


    i managed to get up to 1950 rbg rating on a server that is entirely dead.
    people bring rogues for smoke bomb, sap cap, and our dance burst.

    you also said: "no one wants melee anymore"
    please tell me you are kidding.... DKs are are loved in RBG's and warriors are pretty good as well.


    On servers that are not dead your average group will only take a DK because of grip (and only if he TCs), and fill the rest with ranged. Finding a group as a rogue above 1700 cr is very difficult, even with full mal and 2200ish xp.
    Edited by Freschetta on 1/22/2013 2:14 PM PST
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    100 Blood Elf Rogue
    7390
    01/22/2013 02:13 PMPosted by Freschetta
    On servers that are not dead your average group will only take a DK because of grip (and only if he TCs), and fill the rest with ranged


    you misunderstand me. when i said "my server is dead" i meant it, as in almost 0 pvpers.
    i don't RBG with a group from my server, i am part of a group from stormscale/tich and we run a couple times a week.

    i've also gone up against plenty of 2-2.2k+ teams and seen their compositions.

    i've seen teams that focus on aoe (ie. lock/boomkin/spriest).
    teams that focus on melee cleave( warriors/rogue/dk).
    others have multiple dks and mages to abuse grip into ROF.

    the list goes on....

    so i don't know where you are getting your information that "the average groups on active servers will use only ranged".
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    100 Night Elf Rogue
    9125
    01/22/2013 11:05 AMPosted by Viiss
    they need to nerf 5.2 shuriken toss or leave it as it is ( in 5.1).


    I dont know how this keeps escaping you....

    Currently ALL pve rogues take Anticipation...and nearly all of them take ST for PvP

    That is a problem in the devs eyes.

    So what did they do?

    Scraped Versatiltiy (thank god) and replaced it with MfD (which tbh I dont see getting much more action than versa)

    Then they wanted to make ST be taken more in PvE, so they allowed us to have bare bones functionality at range with ST.

    Now I dont think that will make it be taken any more in PvE at the expense of anticipation, but that was the goal.

    So sorry but its not getting reverted, and tbh it shouldnt. A level90 talent should do at least more than just be a ranged SS with piss poor damage. At least the auto attacks add some flair too it.
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    100 Human Rogue
    7300
    Prey on the Weak is actually really strong on an offensive team if you spec Combat. You give an 8 second 10% damage buff to everyone on your offense against FC, and you can do pretty good AoE damage can be very difficult to heal.

    As sub, you bring utility and CC that's nearly unmatched by other classes (except a mage, but that's why you bring both for offense).
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    100 Undead Rogue
    7490
    01/22/2013 09:38 AMPosted by Freschetta
    Forgot the change to glove bonus, giving 1% more healing from recup.


    Game breaking.
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    90 Undead Rogue
    ok
    12810
    01/22/2013 08:52 PMPosted by Sneaknaround
    Forgot the change to glove bonus, giving 1% more healing from recup.


    Game breaking.


    Not really. With healing reductions and the amount of burst most classes have even the extra 1% is abysmal compared to any other form of healing.

    The game is no longer about outhealing the damage you take, but rather avoiding it.
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    90 Orc Rogue
    7230
    I honestly think they gave us a little too much in 5.2 (for PvP purposes).

    I anticipate some hotfixes shortly after release if nothing is toned down prior to release.

    That said, I'm very excited for 5.2
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    90 Human Rogue
    7010
    I'm so excited!!! Once Preparation becomes baseline we'll be able to have our cake and eat it too. I like all these changes, hopefully they don't change before the patch. Although I would've enjoyed having 170 energy as assassination, 150 will do just fine. With this change to ST also I will have to get deadly throw so when I'm rooted or closing gaps I can just become a ranged dps. This will be fun, and to anyone who doesn't like these changes; You can git out
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    90 Undead Rogue
    OTF
    4370
    I also think with all of the nerfs to other classes like warriors/locks rogues only really need prep baseline as a buff to be balanced. The shirken toss buff is crazy, adding auto attacks will be way to much dmg
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