Rogues on the PTR are flat out broken

90 Blood Elf Priest
6415
They should really clip Shadow Dance down to five seconds. Eight seconds is the duration mainly on the basis of utility but when you combine it with the stealth opener talent? 11 seconds of tossing out ambushes and 130k eviscerate crits. It's just... ouch. The stuns and silences as well. So strong.
80 Human Priest
3225
01/23/2013 11:07 AMPosted by Galoott


I dunno i am watching rogues kill full Malevolent Resto shaman with earthshield up from 100-0 with them ever being able to get a NS heal off.

It's just LOL broke.


how many resto druids have you seen? because i bet we won't be viable next patch.


The only healer you see running around right now is disc priest. There was a ton of MW monks running around the first two weeks of the PTR but that has slowly declined.

All you really see in abundance are Disc Priest, Rogues are everywhere, and WW monks.
90 Undead Rogue
4445
01/23/2013 11:12 AMPosted by Anurakis
They should really clip Shadow Dance down to five seconds. Eight seconds is the duration mainly on the basis of utility but when you combine it with the stealth opener talent? 11 seconds of tossing out ambushes and 130k eviscerate crits. It's just... ouch. The stuns and silences as well. So strong.


Would destroy Sub and make it unplayable. Dance is basically the only thing the spec has left and the only reason to play it. Everything else was removed or co-oped.

Clip Dance and you'd just see Sub drop to 0 and everyone get onboard Mut, which will probably happen anyways if shuriken toss isn't nerfed.
Edited by Crookston on 1/23/2013 11:21 AM PST
31 Blood Elf Monk
320
You can do that now if there isn't a peel. Or at least get close to it.

Kill thee Rogue. Train it all day. They die in stuns. That's just what Rogues do. Nothing changed there.


jk prep-cloak-vanish
90 Undead Rogue
4445
You can do that now if there isn't a peel. Or at least get close to it.

Kill thee Rogue. Train it all day. They die in stuns. That's just what Rogues do. Nothing changed there.


jk prep-cloak-vanish


jk long cd - long cd - long cd

So train it again when it pops back out. Fight Rogues like you're playing Whac-A-Mole
Edited by Crookston on 1/23/2013 11:39 AM PST
100 Tauren Shaman
16375
01/23/2013 11:00 AMPosted by Primiez
they probably can 100-0 a resto druid the fastest.


I dunno i am watching rogues kill full Malevolent Resto shaman with earthshield up from 100-0 with them ever being able to get a NS heal off.

It's just LOL broke.


They can do that now sadly. Though im in 90% dreadful...still....cant do anything.
31 Blood Elf Monk
320
k long cd - long cd - long cd

So train it again when it pops back out. Fight Rogues like you're playing Whac-A-Mole


You sound like a warrior defending their burst in 5.0

"BUT IT HAS A LONG CD!"

So if I have an ability on lets say a 8 min cd, that has a 5 second cast bar, and it 1 shots a healer its okay because you can counter it and it has a long cd? Nope!
90 Undead Rogue
4445
k long cd - long cd - long cd

So train it again when it pops back out. Fight Rogues like you're playing Whac-A-Mole


You sound like a warrior defending their burst in 5.0

"BUT IT HAS A LONG CD!"

So if I have an ability on lets say a 8 min cd, that has a 5 second cast bar, and it 1 shots a healer its okay because you can counter it and it has a long cd? Nope!


implying rogues are 1 shotting anyone is funny. They can gib someone in an opener, sure, but it's far from instant. If they've used prep, cloak and vanish, they have literally nothing to keep them from being peeled or controlled. You have a 2 minute kill window on the rogue. Oh no.

Let's play a game. What would you nerf on the PTR that is going to take Rogue from bad now to amazing in 5.2?
Edited by Crookston on 1/23/2013 11:49 AM PST
01/23/2013 11:47 AMPosted by Crookston
What would you nerf on the PTR that is going to take Rogue from bad now to amazing in 5.2?
The new version of shuriken toss, and the increased energy. Rogues don't need more burst potential, and with prep as baseline now they don't need the large increase to ranged damage they're getting.
01/23/2013 09:29 AMPosted by Anurakis
3. Paralytic poison
I'm on the fence on this one. I don't think its OP'd, but at the same time I can't help thinking Blizz was like "Hey guys, we heard you like TBC so we decided to bring mace stun back". I know its not the same thing, but it is relatively random and a big stun thats completely off the DR from their other ones. They lose some damage by taking it, but gain a considerable amount of lockdown potential. Idk, again I'm on the fence.
Edited by Esmee on 1/23/2013 11:59 AM PST
90 Human Rogue
6130
01/23/2013 11:55 AMPosted by Esmee
I'm on the fence on this one. I don't think its OP'd, but at the same time I can't help thinking Blizz was like "Hey guys, we heard you like TBC so we decided to bring mace stun back". I know its not the same thing, but it is relatively random and a big stun thats completely off the DR from their other ones. They lose some damage by taking it, but gain a considerable amount of lockdown potential. Idk, again I'm on the fence.


I think this is an issue here, I think the ST toss change on PTR is good (although not ideal), and the lowering of the auto attack damage a step in the right direction. An issue I think with ST on the PTR is the proccing of the para poison that is causing a lot of people frustration. Personally I like that poison for the root shiv, not really for the random stun that procs at the wierdest moments, I say this because I am not a big fan of having a random stun pop out of nowhere simply because just about everyone feels that there is more than enough CC/stuns flying around all over the place as it is.

The 130 energy is also a double edged sword, yes sub has borderline OP openers due to this but at the same time it takes longer to pool energy with it. Also due to the energy change it is clearly in subs favor to spec subterfuge, that way you can have a strong opener without messing with rupture or blowing sdance right off the bat. The issue I think with sub rogues on the PTR is a compilation of several factors that allow it to have really strong openers and strong damage during sdance. Subterfuge, para poison, and ST will be the cookie cutter spec for sub, they just work too well together.
90 Human Hunter
3935
The worst thing I found is that all of them seem to take the following;

1. Shuriken toss


5.2 Shuriken toss is an absolute joke.

Having a rogue with op melee abilities is one thing. But to do a good job getting him off me only to be rewarded with a bunch of shuriken tosses eating big chunks of my health bar goes against the basic design of having each class with strengths and weaknesses.

Bribing people to play a certain class and get their numbers up by making them OP- the ostensible reason for making rogues and monks OP - is just an awful design decision.

If they want to get rogue numbers up, make them more fun, such as by not making them keep slice and dice up all the time, which is kind of annoying when I play my rogue. Rogue has too many finishers and babysitting of buff/debuff cds. Get rid of some of them, give rogues shorter cds instead of prep and it will be a lot more fun to play.
Edited by Arrowset on 1/23/2013 12:52 PM PST
100 Blood Elf Monk
10840
01/23/2013 12:45 PMPosted by Roguefail
The 130 energy is also a double edged sword, yes sub has borderline OP openers due to this but at the same time it takes longer to pool energy with it.


Double Edged Sword implies that there is a negative to the energy boost. I agree with everything you said, but don't act like it's anything other than a buff.
90 Human Rogue
6130
01/23/2013 12:52 PMPosted by Qwaai
Double Edged Sword implies that there is a negative to the energy boost. I agree with everything you said, but don't act like it's anything other than a buff.


Without a doubt its a buff, I forgot to mention its a double edged sword because on live we have energy issues, but on PTR the energy issues were addressed with the vigor bonus on pvp gear, but Murphys law rears its ugly head by possibly giving sub rogues too much damage with a full energy bar during dance or opening out of stealth.
90 Human Rogue
6130
01/23/2013 12:51 PMPosted by Arrowset
If they want to get rogue numbers up, make them more fun, such as by not making them keep slice and dice up all the time, which is kind of annoying when I play my rogue.


Slice and dice I can deal with, having rupture up at the same time is what annoys me to no end.
90 Blood Elf Paladin
11230
I don't have a problem being killed, but if it gets back to gag order status of not being able to use your character with little or anything you (or your partners) can do to fight back, I suspect many people will just be done.
90 Human Hunter
3935


Slice and dice I can deal with, having rupture up at the same time is what annoys me to no end.


Yep, and there's other buff-type cds like recuperate, evasion, combat readiness, feint (really short cd).

There are just too many buffs, debuffs and abilities - it gives me a headache to play rogue since I'm constantly managing them.

But the answer is not to make them OP to bribe people to deal with the headache of a class with ability bloat.

The answer is to make the class fun to play without the necessity of bribing people to play it at the expense of the enjoyment of playing the other classes.
Edited by Arrowset on 1/23/2013 1:17 PM PST
100 Dwarf Hunter
17130
01/23/2013 12:57 PMPosted by Roguefail
Without a doubt its a buff, I forgot to mention its a double edged sword because on live we have energy issues, but on PTR the energy issues were addressed with the vigor bonus on pvp gear, but Murphys law rears its ugly head by possibly giving sub rogues too much damage with a full energy bar during dance or opening out of stealth.


Its not actually a double edge sword or murphys law kicking in as its a win win scenario for the rogue. THe only down side would be if rogues were insta nerfed as soon as 5.2 comes out due to these changes, however i surmise we will see no meaningful nerfs to rogues for the remainder of the new pvp season.
90 Human Rogue
6130
01/23/2013 01:16 PMPosted by Arrowset
The answer is to make the class fun to play without the necessity of bribing people to play it at the expense of the enjoyment of playing the other classes.


Well this is the big issue overall with rogues in general. Sub is a pain with buff/debuff management, mut plays slow as molasses, and combat has been gutted to an auto attack bot with 3 wonky long burst CDs. To appease the drooling masses blizz just overtuned subs burst damage (atm on PTR) and the rest of the issues concerning rogues are still neglected.

Medicore mobility
Awful survivability
Band aid fix on energy issues
100 Orc Shaman
13555
01/23/2013 10:04 AMPosted by Creepindethh
Glad to see the game is back to the way it should be. Better grab the lube, bitc**s!


FOTM face roll rogues v2.0

?????????????????????????

is that what you are refering to?
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