Rogues on the PTR are flat out broken

90 Night Elf Rogue
11450
Worth mentioning: Shuriken Toss shouldn't be proccing poisons. It is intended to be an ability that allows Rogues to continue to apply some pressure even after being peeled, though. That's part of the reason it was re-designed this way.

We’ll continue to keep an eye on balance, but (post-fix) we feel it’s a good option compared other talents in that tree (Versatility or Anticipation).


Oh. Well that changes things. Shouldn't be that bad then.
90 Blood Elf Paladin
11230
Worth mentioning: Shuriken Toss shouldn't be proccing poisons. It is intended to be an ability that allows Rogues to continue to apply some pressure even after being peeled, though. That's part of the reason it was re-designed this way.

We’ll continue to keep an eye on balance, but (post-fix) we feel it’s a good option compared other talents in that tree (Versatility or Anticipation).


What happened for being rewarded for getting away from melee? Did that only apply to warriors and gag order?
90 Undead Rogue
6195
Worth mentioning: Shuriken Toss shouldn't be proccing poisons. It is intended to be an ability that allows Rogues to continue to apply some pressure even after being peeled, though. That's part of the reason it was re-designed this way.

We’ll continue to keep an eye on balance, but (post-fix) we feel it’s a good option compared other talents in that tree (Versatility or Anticipation).


That might actually make the ability a choice instead of fox holed into picking it for pvp.

Thanks for the heads up.
Community Manager
01/24/2013 03:03 PMPosted by Sanctifiêd
but doesnt this diminish the effects of cc?


Roots and snares, yes. There are plenty of other effects that stop a threat cold, though.
90 Undead Rogue
6195
but doesnt this diminish the effects of cc? all other melee cant do much when in a root, casters or healers will be helpless unless they LOS behind a pillar.

for a class with shadowstep and prep isnt it overkill?


You don't know anything about the rogue class, other melee are different, this new shuriken toss is meant to give rogues the pressure other melee classes have.

Prep isn't really a mobilty talent, it is more of a defensive talent because after it is used rogues become sitting ducks, they don't have a charge every 12secs.

If they remove the poison procs from ST the ability will be perfectly fine.... You won't be able to kite with it anymore because it won't proc crip poison or paralytic poison, those are the reasons it seems over the top. Poison procs are also a reason ST damage seems to be over the top.

Just removing poisons from the equation it makes the ability a much better more balanced ability.
Edited by Sociopaths on 1/24/2013 3:10 PM PST
90 Night Elf Rogue
11450
01/24/2013 03:05 PMPosted by Daxxarri
but doesnt this diminish the effects of cc?


Roots and snares, yes. There are plenty of other effects that stop a threat cold, though.


Not too many options for dks though. Nothing baseline at least. Rogues seem to counter DKs.
90 Blood Elf Priest
6415
01/24/2013 03:05 PMPosted by Daxxarri
but doesnt this diminish the effects of cc?


Roots and snares, yes. There are plenty of other effects that stop a threat cold, though.


I were under the impression root effects, since they have been pared back for many classes, are supposed to have greater tactical impact, yet it seems that there are more root break effects than ever before. Emancipate, Windwalk totem, Safeguard, Druid shifting once again breaks roots etc - are they supposed to be tactical choices with impact or just another mechanic which presents little challenge in overcoming? Snares I see as differently as they are so readily applied and so widely available, with many talents offering snaring potential.

Obviously there are obnoxious outliers when it comes to roots (frost shock root talent, entangling roots et al) yet these too share diminishing returns, presenting a real tactical choice in their use.
90 Human Death Knight
10625
01/24/2013 03:07 PMPosted by Noitora


Roots and snares, yes. There are plenty of other effects that stop a threat cold, though.


Not too many options for dks though. Nothing baseline at least. Rogues seem to counter DKs.


20s of every minute. Could be worse.

Jk couldn't be worse.
90 Blood Elf Priest
6415
01/24/2013 03:11 PMPosted by Sanctifiêd
but the new shuriken toss is essentially ascendance, without a 3 minute cooldown. what about enhance? they dont get to put out this pressure from range as often either.


No. No it is not Ascendance. Ascendance makes abilities hit at range, not solely auto-attacks, although one could argue poisons almost double as an ability in themselves given the level of functionality they provide (albeit in a more passive nature).
90 Orc Shaman
14220
01/24/2013 03:02 PMPosted by Noitora
Bad. Our CC is limited to single target and limited swapping. Single target CC is great but relies on being in melee range. I'm pretty sure we're still smokebomb bots.


cc' is more then off target control which rogue still is better then hex, with blind alone, let alone dance stun, sap out of cc, gouge, ect ect
90 Undead Rogue
6195
No offense but a lot of you are speaking about things you don't really know much about.

On live rogues are not fun and gimmicky, the only reason a rogue is brought is for smokebomb and the control they have.

Rogues aren't even the peeling machine they used to be, crip is 50% and shiv get's dodged and parried so much it's insane....

You can peel a rogue extremely easy, When poison procs are removed from ST, the auto attack damage isnt going to be !@#$ and it will be pressure, but not shutting the rogue out totally....

Prep isnt a gap closer.
Edited by Sociopaths on 1/24/2013 3:24 PM PST
90 Undead Priest
6600
01/24/2013 03:22 PMPosted by Sociopaths
On live rogues are not fun and gimmicky, the only reason a rogue is brought is for smokebomb and the control they have.


You're ignoring sizable burst, and even then.

God-like control is a gimmick? Smokebomb sure, but that's part of a whole package.
90 Human Warlock
12355
01/23/2013 02:28 PMPosted by Sociopaths
On live rogues aren't fun to play, outside of cd's rogue damage is stale, terrible and not fun.

I would agree with this.

My rogue is at 74, and I've leveled him mostly through battlegrounds.

There's the fun of insta-gibbing, but apart from that, Rogue mechanics aren't fun.

On the one hand, I understand why GC thinks Rogue is a well designed class. The Energy model does have theoretical advantages - e.g., DPS does not suffer as much from lag.

But the end result is not fun to play.

And yes, instead of making them fun, it seems the only thing they know how to do is to make them OP and obnoxious, so that people would play them because it offers an advantage, instead of because they're fun.
90 Orc Shaman
8360
That feel when even mages are complaining about rogues and its 10x worse for ele shamans
Yeah GC said auto attacks proc poisons. ST itself has always proc'd poisons.

soooo.... wut?
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