Tier 15-Massive ilvl Discrepancy

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100 Blood Elf Paladin
18840
You’ll now see a 5.2 raid item of LFR quality at item level 502, the same item in Normal quality at item level 522, the item in Normal Thunderforged quality at item level 528, the Heroic version of the item at level 535, and the Heroic Thunderforged version of the item at level 541.


To put this into perspective, this puts tier 14 MSV (heroic), which has current item levels of 502, at the same ilvl as LFR ToT. All normal mode HoF and ToES gear that isn't infused with 1500 valor points (of which it is impossible even to have most of your gear upgraded to 2/2) inferior to the drops from LFR ToT.

When looking at normal mode the disparity is even wider. With normal mode ToT dropping 522 ilvl gear, which is a full 20 ilvls (a tier and a half) higher than the 'new' LFR, which we've already established is better than tier 14 normal mode gear, this puts it on par with tier 14's highest item level drops, the elite heroic 2/2 pieces from protectors, which is ilvl 524, and is only available on certain pieces, and is vastly superior to normal heroic pieces (ilvl 509) and significantly better than 2/2 heroic pieces (ilvl 517).

I'll discount the level of heroic tier 15 pieces, as it follows a more standard upgrade path (13 ilvls); however, why do we now have such a huge gap in item levels between tiers? I was under the impression that LFR, normal, and heroic were all separate progression paths, yet in this system, heroic tier 14 raiders will have viable side/upgrades, from LFR tier 15. Has the implementation of upgrading items with valor bloated item levels so drastically? Will thunderforged (and eventually thunderforged 2/2 items) perpetuate this item level bloat? And most importantly, how does the community feel about this?
90 Dwarf Shaman
17655
Too inflated.
90 Goblin Hunter
13400
It's probably to prevent BiS gear from heroic T14 existing. Good change IMO. As long as ilvl bloat doesn't get out of hand (already feel like I have plenty energy on my rogue, can't imagine 2 tiers from now) it shouldn't be a problem if the T15 normal bosses are tuned for 496 ilvl or so.

It shouldn't present a problem his tier. Next tier, or 2 if they have another tier before Org, will be where if there's a problem it'll show.
95 Human Paladin
13345
They never said TN+1 LFR gear would be below TN normal gear.
Yeah if this system is in 5.4 (or whenever the third raid is) numbers will be ridiculous. WTB item squish soon
90 Human Death Knight
13655
Far, far too inflated. I was expecting 496 at most from ToT LFR. I HATE feeling forced to do LFR. I was so excited to not have to do it for 5.2, guess that's over.
90 Goblin Hunter
13400
Fortunately with the fixed mana pool healers shouldn't get out of control too much like Cata.
100 Troll Rogue
15940
01/23/2013 03:44 PMPosted by Belebix
I HATE feeling forced to do LFR. I was so excited to not have to do it for 5.2, guess that's over.


They never really promised this, they said it wouldn't be compelling to people with heroic gear which if you have 2/2 upgraded 509 gear it trumps it by a fair margin.
100 Blood Elf Paladin
18840
01/23/2013 03:40 PMPosted by Osmeric
They never said TN+1 LFR gear would be below TN normal gear.


We don't want to push raiders to LFR. That was a consequence of old loot model plus DW weapons and trinkets. Hopefully fixed.


Under the new model, I'll be running LFR ToT in hopes of replacing my bracers and shield, which have current BiS from MSV. Even if I manage to obtain the heroic versions of these, the tier 14 versions have suboptimal itemization.

They never really promised this, they said it wouldn't be compelling to people with heroic gear which if you have 2/2 upgraded 509 gear it trumps it by a fair margin.


It isn't realistic to think that you'll even have half of your pieces 2/2. Raiders are forced to do LFR.
Edited by Isiildur on 1/23/2013 3:48 PM PST
100 Human Paladin
aus
18820
01/23/2013 03:40 PMPosted by Osmeric
They never said TN+1 LFR gear would be below TN normal gear.


They did say heroic raiders would not need to do lfr,, guess what with that amount of ilvl inflation will be off to lfr to get their new tier.

Too much inflation.
100 Human Paladin
aus
18820
01/23/2013 03:46 PMPosted by Sabod
have 2/2 upgraded 509 gear it trumps it by a fair margin.

You yourself have 4 upgraded items none of them tier, How do you expect everybody else to be fully upgraded?
90 Night Elf Druid
17755
502 tier with a decent bonus should be enough to outdo 509 tier with merely OK bonuses.
100 Human Priest
17895
Not to mention unless you're near or full BiS, you're gonna have to run LFR for a fair amount of upgrades, regardless of the amount of Heroic bosses you've killed.

I mean, I've seen people in the 490-495 ilvl range with 3-4 heroic Sha kills.

I guess by "heroic raider" they meant "people in near or full BiS"
Edited by Dayuv on 1/23/2013 4:07 PM PST
90 Dwarf Shaman
17655
this extra layer of LFR, which shouldn't be so damn high is painful.
90 Troll Druid
11615
Yeah, when I read the ilvls for the new raid, I just shook my head.

Gear inflation is just getting ridiculous.
100 Human Priest
17895
Lowest raiding epics in WoTLK were 200, highest were 284. That was across 4 tiers.
Lowest in Cata were 359, highest was 416, across 3 tiers.
Lowest in Mop is 476, highest through just 2 tiers will be 535, 541 including Thunderforged, not including any possible higher ilvl loot from the end boss/any elite modes.

Various classes/abilities are going to have to be changed/nerfed because of how ridiculous the scaling will be.
90 Night Elf Druid
17755
I can already hit 80-something % crit when the Terror procs if I have it equipped while I'm Cat, just to note. Hypothetical T16 with 590/600 is going to be hilarious.

Can you imagine Disc in that gear setup?
Edited by Slashlove on 1/23/2013 4:28 PM PST
100 Troll Rogue
15940
01/23/2013 04:24 PMPosted by Dayuv
Various classes/abilities are going to have to be changed/nerfed because of how ridiculous the scaling will be.


In before Sunwell Radiance / Chill of the Throne version 3 but for DPS!

01/23/2013 04:01 PMPosted by Slashlove
502 tier with a decent bonus should be enough to outdo 509 tier with merely OK bonuses.


Maybe? I'd say blizzard has really failed if this is the case though, I'll leave it up to guys smarter then me to do the math and figure it out.
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