Tier 15-Massive ilvl Discrepancy

(Locked)

90 Goblin Hunter
13400
01/25/2013 07:23 PMPosted by Dayuv
It's our expectation that Heroic raiders should have no interest in 5.2 Raid Finder gear. If you have item level 509+ gear from 5.0/5.1 Heroics, then the question is, why would you want item level 502 gear from the Raid Finder?


Heroic Raider =! raider with full best in slot gear.


Admittedly, I'd say the chances someone whose downed heroic sha by 5.2 having a 509 ilvl is quite high due to upgrading. On the other side, the chance they have full 509 gear is quite low so there likely will be some upgrades in LFR. Especially trinkets.

Now tier, if they gate it (as expected in 1/4 at a time starting 1 week after normal), there's a pretty good chance a good number (but not all ofc because of RNG and not that many drop) heroic raiders won't need to farm tier since tier gear is normally at end of the instance so they should have a good 3-4 weeks before tier is available in LFR where it can be farmed in normal/heroic.
90 Orc Warlock
13430
I don't want this to come off as elitist or condescending, so please keep that in mind. But what would happen to LFR if the majority of Normal and Heroic raiders had no reason to step foot in it? What would happen if all 3 modes shared the same loot lockout?

No offense to anyone in particular, but this would probably hurt the success of LFR strongly, at least right at the start of it. On average, I would wager most groups that first zone into 5.2 LFR will have several Normal/Heroic raiders who know how the fights work. In general, the LFR exclusive raiders won't have read up on the fight beforehand (even though it's built into the game. Seriously, there is no more underrated feature than the dungeon journal). What if it were all LFR exclusive players? You'd just, on average, get less throughput and less managing of mechanics from that group?

Sure, you could tune down the difficulty even less, but you can only go so far before it literally becomes a tank and spank (Groups generally do Garajal this way now but on release we had to go kill the Spirit Realm adds). And I think even the LFR players will eventually get bored and unsub if the fight doesn't even appear to be anything more than tank and spank.

Unfortunately, I think it is in Blizzard's best interest to maintain participation from all groups in LFR, at least for the first couple of months. The first few weeks of MSV, tons of people fell through the floor on Elegon. Now, it's a bit more rare. In a sense, to keep people playing, Blizzard knows there has to be some carrying done in LFR.
90 Goblin Hunter
13400
Now about the legendaries, from the quest line I'm seeing on the PTR there's an outside chance you won't need to farm the legendary items from LFR.

Even assuming the 20 secrets of the empire have the same drop rate as sigils, the next quest involves having your faction have the Thunder Forge unlocked. It's entirely possible the minimum amount of time it takes to unlock the thunder forge is longer than it would take to collect 20 secrets of the empire. Small chance of that but is a glimmer of hope.

Um, and yes I was wrong about possibly being new sha touched weapons in 5.2. So remember that when reading my theory.
100 Human Paladin
18145
01/25/2013 07:36 PMPosted by Zakigga
I don't want this to come off as elitist or condescending, so please keep that in mind. But what would happen to LFR if the majority of Normal and Heroic raiders had no reason to step foot in it?


If LFR is failing, they will detune it until it stops failing. This was demonstrated on various fights in T14.
90 Goblin Hunter
13400
I don't want this to come off as elitist or condescending, so please keep that in mind. But what would happen to LFR if the majority of Normal and Heroic raiders had no reason to step foot in it? What would happen if all 3 modes shared the same loot lockout?

No offense to anyone in particular, but this would probably hurt the success of LFR strongly, at least right at the start of it. On average, I would wager most groups that first zone into 5.2 LFR will have several Normal/Heroic raiders who know how the fights work. In general, the LFR exclusive raiders won't have read up on the fight beforehand (even though it's built into the game. Seriously, there is no more underrated feature than the dungeon journal). What if it were all LFR exclusive players? You'd just, on average, get less throughput and less managing of mechanics from that group?

Sure, you could tune down the difficulty even less, but you can only go so far before it literally becomes a tank and spank (Groups generally do Garajal this way now but on release we had to go kill the Spirit Realm adds). And I think even the LFR players will eventually get bored and unsub if the fight doesn't even appear to be anything more than tank and spank.

Unfortunately, I think it is in Blizzard's best interest to maintain participation from all groups in LFR, at least for the first couple of months. The first few weeks of MSV, tons of people fell through the floor on Elegon. Now, it's a bit more rare. In a sense, to keep people playing, Blizzard knows there has to be some carrying done in LFR.


I agree and for some reason I remember a GC statement or tweet or something saying its good for the game to have raiders there since good LFR players are few and far between. (But they do exist)
90 Goblin Hunter
13400
One other thing, though its not really related, someone mentioned farming the new dailies for elder charms, remember that you can't use elder charms in ToT, only the new Mogu runes. Those elder charms, assuming they remain elder charms which I imagine they will since according to Blizz they're borderline too set gearing up as is, are just another catchup mechanic likely. Shouldn't need to farm them for ToT progression.
90 Night Elf Druid
17755
Armor cap is 75% physical damage reduction through armor. It doesn't go any higher than that. (Or at least, it didn't used to.)


It's still set at the same 75% cap.
90 Dwarf Shaman
17655
More concerned if the monk mastery goes live

99% physical damage to stagger with a good purifying rotation on the 4 piece? but that's not directly ilevel, that's just Blizzard overreacting to people not using mastery on brewmasters.
100 Human Paladin
aus
20645
01/25/2013 05:24 PMPosted by Emmey
Seems consistent with T13 LFR... Why all acted suprised?


Because they admitted after t13 that the inflation had been a problem.
90 Draenei Shaman
17255
01/25/2013 05:04 PMPosted by Daxxarri
We’re confident that our planned item levels are not going to skew class balance or degenerate gameplay, and we’re monitoring the performance of all classes and specs in the new gear that will be available in 5.2 and going forward


01/25/2013 05:08 PMPosted by Entitlement
You're actively inflating item level, while there's also a Blue posts saying that inflation is out of control, the contradiction is rather annoying, as the smoke and mirrors are getting old, just flat out say you want heroic raiders carrying LFR the first month.


This. On so many levels.

5.2 is the patch that is also supposed to address excessive instantcast CC in PVP. They nerfed 3 spells and added 4 new ones that are going to be CC nightmares.

It's obvious the main team is gone and you guys don't know what you're doing. You're repeating mistakes that were ironed out years ago.
90 Worgen Warlock
HiJ
9275
01/25/2013 09:12 PMPosted by Act
5.2 is the patch that is also supposed to address excessive instantcast CC in PVP. They nerfed 3 spells and added 4 new ones that are going to be CC nightmares.

I, for one, welcome our new monk overlords.
90 Pandaren Priest
12925
01/25/2013 07:23 PMPosted by Dayuv
Heroic Raider =! raider with full best in slot gear.


And gear isn't always the largest bottleneck to speeding up progression. In many situations it's time, ability and various other factors. It's not like anyone with a H Sha kill or a realistic chance of getting one before 5.2 is going to need to upgrade their 496 5.1 bracers to 502 5.2 lfr bracers to waltz into normal t15 and completely obliterate it. There is a reason most guilds with a H Sha kill already under their belt are more interested in PTR experience instead of re-clearing their "farm" for more gear prior to 5.2.
90 Goblin Rogue
6370
the gear inflation, my god lol. At this rate, I may be able to solo some cata raid bosses just for something diffrent then dailys by the end of the expac.
I keep hearing how "heroic level raiders are carrying the LFR runs"
What a load of garbage,maybe for the first week or so,but after that i don't buy it.

Look at my armory, go ahead,i'll wait.

yep,nothing higher than LFR and daily gear. Always in the top 5 if not fighting for the top slot, if you hardcores are running LFR you are seriously coasting, and coasting isnt carrying.

Don't get me wrong, i totally understand you not wanting to run LFR, it has a randomness to it that goes against the rigid playstyle you enjoy.

But just because ALOT of people out there would rather not beat their head against a wall, fighting hardmode bosses doesnt make them bad players.

Also hear about "if heroic raiders didnt do LFR it would suffer hard" another load of BS.
hardcore heroic raiders make up what 5% of the total population? Even if every last heroic raider never touched another LFR a 5% decrease in LFR would barely be felt.

Be glad Blizz even bothers to make Heroic level raids anymore cause if it ever comes down to (and eventually, it will) only making 1 level of raid content it will be designed for the masses (pleasing the most customers for the least amount of development cost) and the first thing to go bye bye will be hardmode raids.
100 Dwarf Death Knight
18230
01/25/2013 10:01 PMPosted by Feilong
Be glad Blizz even bothers to make Heroic level raids anymore cause if it ever comes down to (and eventually, it will) only making 1 level of raid content it will be designed for the masses (pleasing the most customers for the least amount of development cost) and the first thing to go bye bye will be hardmode raids.


Heroic Raiding offers their best dev time-> Player time conversion, lfr is blown through the first day, it might keep people roped in for reclears, but the actual time spent is like, an hour per week per instance per player, and the dev time is months, where as a heroic raid is several hundreds of hours per player, and only the tip top finish it.

Also, it's fun when you get nobody carrying dps, you find out bosses like Sha of fear have enrage timers in lfr, and that Bladelord can hit 30 intensities and still not enrage.

out of curiosity, what happens in Garalon groups when I'm not there as the only person who will kite pheremones? do people stand around for 30 minutes, then just leave?
Edited by Postonforums on 1/25/2013 10:06 PM PST
90 Worgen Warlock
HiJ
9275
01/25/2013 10:05 PMPosted by Postonforums
out of curiosity, what happens in Garalon groups when I'm not there as the only person who will kite pheremones? do people stand around for 30 minutes, then just leave?
Well, all but six people die, pheremones caps at 20 and does no damage so we just leave it on a corpse, and after 12 minutes he enrages.
90 Orc Shaman
11870
I'm curious, what will the ilvl in china be? Aren't they like 20 ish ilvl higher or some thing?
100 Night Elf Rogue
23270
01/25/2013 05:35 PMPosted by Daxxarri
This, really can't believe Blizz still force raiders into LFR to stay competitive, WE DON'T LIKE IT.


It's our expectation that Heroic raiders should have no interest in 5.2 Raid Finder gear. If you have item level 509+ gear from 5.0/5.1 Heroics, then the question is, why would you want item level 502 gear from the Raid Finder? Players wearing normal mode gear might find some slight upgrades in the Raid Finder in the first few weeks, but it's a safe bet that any gear that was upgraded with Valor Points will probably beat anything found in the Throne of Thunder Raid Finder.


That's all well and good for heroic raiders, but what about normal raiders? What makes you think we want to be running LFR for upgrades?

Can't the new gear just be one tier up from current? LFR at 496, normal at 509, and heroic at 532? Why is it only the heroic raiders that you don't think should want to run LFR raids?

I don't know about other normal mode guilds, but I expect mine is going to spend several weeks running LFRs as a guild simply to throw items at everyone (or not, depending on RNG loot).
This topic is locked.

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)

Reported!

[Close]