Talent tree system or paint by numbers?

100 Undead Priest
8855
Just recently back to WoW but played for about a year after closed beta.

I was wondering how people felt about the switch to the new system off of the old Talent Point system? I wasn't around for the original discussion but I guess you can tell by the title how I feel about it.

Post away...
I think overall it functions better than prior itterations. There is less margin of error for a new player to misplace talent points, and provides a little more variety in the build you choose to run. I think it could still use a little refinement but still works well in its current form.
81 Gnome Death Knight
10100
The old talent trees were paint by numbers too only there were more numbers. Many people just googled or looked up on EJ / maintankadin / whatever for the correct build.

The nice thing about the new system is you can paint a purple cat and not suffer a major dps loss because orange cats were mathematically superior.
90 Troll Rogue
17250
The old talent system was flawed as people have already mentioned. You could just google the absolute best spec for whatever you wanted to play and copy/paste without even bothering to read what each talent did.

The new talent system is supposed to bring fun choices to the table... but imho it doesn't deliver very well. I personally only switch a few talents here and there every once a week or so and even then only for Brawler's Guild, not for raiding or anything else. I try not to complain too much because it's a new system and Blizzard is still tinkering with it (next patch will bring some new stuff) so maybe it will get better eventually. I dunno though, doesn't sound like it'll ever be quite as fun as the talent system of D3 was for me.
People make the argument that the old system was flawed, because mathematically there was always a "best spec".

Did they take math away with the new system? No. There is still a best spec.

What they did was cut our choices down from 50 to 6, and of the 6, 3 are meaningless.

They gave us "variety" by making the choices irrelevant to the game. You have freedom to choose, because your choice is meaningless. How is this an improvement?

The are doing the same thing with glyphs. The top tier was removed completely. Many of the best or "mathematically superior choices" have been removed and added to your rotation as baseline skills. Minor glyphs are now almost nothing but cosmetic changes.

Is Blizzard is telling us we aren't smart enough to manage 50+ talent points and 9 glyph sockets? By reducing it to 6 and 6, and making it so most of those choices have no game impact, they have given us variety!

It's like Henry Ford used to say, "You can get the model T in any color you choose, as long as you choose black".
90 Human Rogue
3805
I hate having to wait 10 levels before choosing something, even though we still get plenty automatically, there was something satisfying about getting that hard earned talent point.

I don't miss the "cut from the same mold" choices seen among the top pvp players that everybody had to emulate though, not that it's much different now, but at least there seems to be more discussion in the class forums about one being better than another rather than flat out rejection of something.
90 Blood Elf Priest
7435
No system they could ever come up with would ever give a sense of "individuality".

We are all the exact same thing if you really think about it.
100 Blood Elf Warlock
17160
You know why the new system is vastly superior to the old system?

In between fights, if I'm not in combat, I can completely change all my talent point selections to match the situation I'm in or need to perform.

That level of versatility is awesome.
90 Draenei Shaman
10825
You know why the new system is vastly superior to the old system?

In between fights, if I'm not in combat, I can completely change all my talent point selections to match the situation I'm in or need to perform.

That level of versatility is awesome.


Put it better than I would have, as tired as I am right now.
90 Worgen Hunter
9805
No system they could ever come up with would ever give a sense of "individuality".

We are all the exact same thing if you really think about it.


Which is because MOST players look up what's the ideal choices for their given spec.

Me? I look at the choices, see what I like, and boom. I've had people on my server yell at me because I'm not playing BM. Guess what? I don't LIKE BM right now. I have my toon set up the way I want, the way I play, top DPS be dammed.
100 Draenei Shaman
15600
Is Blizzard is telling us we aren't smart enough to manage 50+ talent points and 9 glyph sockets? By reducing it to 6 and 6, and making it so most of those choices have no game impact, they have given us variety!


I think the opposite is true. Its precisely because the players have become better at theorycrafting that the point of the talents tree(which is to make a choice) is lost. Every ele shaman in cata had things like Shamanism and Lava Surge.
100 Undead Death Knight
13465
You know why the new system is vastly superior to the old system?

In between fights, if I'm not in combat, I can completely change all my talent point selections to match the situation I'm in or need to perform.

That level of versatility is awesome.


They really could have done the same thing with dust and the old talent system, you'd just need more dust. 1 dust clears 1 set.

While I like being able to respec at will, it still could have been done with the previous systems, don't fool yourself into thinking it would only work with this current one.

My biggest issue with this talent system is the lack of that accomplished feeling you'd get when you dinged and got a talent, it really felt as if you were progressing your character by gaining something. Now-a-days you can go a few levels without learning anything, and when you do learn something it's just automatic, doesn't feel nearly as "exciting".

To me anyhow.

Is Blizzard is telling us we aren't smart enough to manage 50+ talent points and 9 glyph sockets?


No, Bliz is saying that they know that we're smart enough to google your class and spec and then copy the max dps talent tree.

Since that's what we do anyway, throw it baseline and give a few choices to skills that don't matter too much, or are situational.


My biggest issue with this talent system is the lack of that accomplished feeling you'd get when you dinged and got a talent, it really felt as if you were progressing your character by gaining something.


Depended on the talent. I didn't feel anything when I got another +1% to Moonfire damage.
Edited by Milkros on 1/25/2013 9:12 AM PST
I always did my talent points as what was best to help me level and once i reached 60 (and later 70) i respecced to help ME be best at my top level knowing my preferences, and how i played. A guide might give suggestiings if i wasnt sure, but over all, i did as i felt was best for me.

That allowwed me at one point to be third on the healing chart in a 40 MC raid... and i never use Drain Life once. Healers got yelled at for a Warlock outhealing them. The two warlocks with me had no idea how i did it... no one did in that 40 man raid... but me... and later the Raid/Guild leader who was impressed that i knew my class and compensated for my weaknesses the best way for ME to do.

So despite its flaws and weaknesses, give me my TBC lock back... and i will have so much fun again!
90 Orc Shaman
19875
01/25/2013 08:51 AMPosted by Squekor
What they did was cut our choices down from 50 to 6, and of the 6, 3 are meaningless.


You basically only had 3 choices in the old system, though. You'd fill out your cookie cutter spec and at the bottom of the guide if you were lucky it'd say "You have 3-5 extra points that aren't mandatory, put these where you want".

I do agree that the new system has its flaws and a lot of the talents simply aren't appealing or useful except for niche fights, but it's still an improvement and a lot more interesting than the old system (even it made leveling more fun).
100 Draenei Priest
17330
We gave away complexity for greater balance. Sorta robbing Peter to pay Paul. Goes both ways..
100 Draenei Priest
10920
I'm fine with it. I can change points around when I need to for specific situations instead of looking up one specific build and being all cookie-cuttery. Also, most of the old points were just +1%, +3%, +5% to an abilities damage or effect anyway.
Edited by Yuseil on 1/25/2013 9:20 AM PST
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