We like.... (except when it is Moonkins)

01/27/2013 09:03 PMPosted by Exterminatus
Moonkin, along with Spriests and Ele Shamans need some seriousl love for PVE.


I really want a RDPS with a healer off-spec, but all the rotations just seem so badly designed and similar to each other. They really need some innovation. I love the short cd's with charges (ie. Hand of Guldan) and they need to incorporate more QoL fixes like that.
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90 Pandaren Shaman
9330
01/27/2013 06:33 PMPosted by Wispurrs
We still don't know why you need to break the synergy between Incarnation + NV for balance druids because of feral druids having overly high burst.


Moonkin have really high burst.
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90 Pandaren Shaman
9330
For the spells that make up for 98-100% of our DPS for any given encounter: Moonfire, Sunfire, Wrath, Starfire, Starsurge, Starfall - there's no glyphs at all.

We've been begging why this anomaly exists - from about ~ 2 weeks into Beta, haven't even had a single blue even respond to that question.


Why do you need glyphs for those spells?
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90 Troll Druid
14580
01/31/2013 09:43 PMPosted by Swampdonkeys
Why do you need glyphs for those spells?

The same reasons while your primary spells have "glyphed" effects. They add flavor. Did you know we have two glyphs for one spell? Did you know we actually have two glyphs for another spell? Stampeding Roar and Lifebloom have two glyphs. Oh wait, did you know we have two glyphs for ANOTHER spell?! Faerie Fire.
Edited by Cyous on 2/1/2013 10:51 AM PST
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90 Pandaren Shaman
9330
02/01/2013 10:49 AMPosted by Cyous
Why do you need glyphs for those spells?

The same reasons while your primary spells have "glyphed" effects. They add flavor. Did you know we have two glyphs for one spell? Did you know we actually have two glyphs for another spell? Stampeding Roar and Lifebloom have two glyphs. Oh wait, did you know we have two glyphs for ANOTHER spell?! Faerie Fire.


Well, it might help if the thread said something like 'moonkin is boring; could you maybe add some shinier glyphs to spice things up since you obviously aren't going to change the trainwreck that is eclipse?'

God, I wish they would put eclipse back where it came from :(
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90 Tauren Druid
7395
02/01/2013 02:37 PMPosted by Swampdonkeys
[quote]Why do you need glyphs for those spells?


God, I wish they would put eclipse back where it came from :(

lol you and every boomkin since late Wrath
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90 Gnome Mage
13930
Fire is hardly RNG anymore.

Get 1 crit

Inferno Blast.

Oh look, Pyroblast! Soooooo RNG.


Angry boomkin has never played a fire mage. Our main DPS cool down is entirely RNG dependent.

On topic, I think that balance is suffering from the same thing the many of the specs are. The designers are resorting to gimmicky spec design to try and increase play complexity and keep players that have become intimately familiar with the game interested. Balance is a mess. Micromanaging eclipse state is a gimmick and not fun. Just like micromanaging your mana as arcane is a gimmick and not fun, etc.
Edited by Linnaeus on 2/2/2013 9:01 AM PST
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90 Worgen Druid
6550
02/01/2013 04:50 PMPosted by Ouchtown


God, I wish they would put eclipse back where it came from :(

lol you and every boomkin since late Wrath


I can live with eclipse.

Mobile dps and nature's grace uptime is what really bothers me.
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90 Worgen Druid
12270
im feral main, but i use all 4 druid specs.
for moonkin, the only mandatory glyph is the moonbeast, which overall ties into the fact that Dream is better than NV (but only just so its still essentially choice on those two, most will go for push button do more dps)
i also personally prefer Soul of the forest over Incarnation for both dps specs

since the intro patch for MoP, moonkins had their rotation changed due to the removal of InS, and the change to crit > haste

we needed to crit more to keep up dots, instead of just refreshing near eclipse phase changes (going in and out of eclipse), it also made it we need to keep our eclipse buffed dots extended as much as possible, doing so by getting crits with wrath and starfire respectively for moon/sunfire

i do agree, more glyph/talent diversity would be nice. feral could use some as well.
i feel like, as a druid, im the bastard child blizzard wishes would go away
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90 Troll Druid
14580
for moonkin, the only mandatory glyph is the moonbeast, which overall ties into the fact that Dream is better than NV (but only just so its still essentially choice on those two, most will go for push button do more dps)
i also personally prefer Soul of the forest over Incarnation for both dps specs

SoFt, even in 5.2, is terrible for Moonkin. It doesn't scale at all.
Dream of Cenarius is a terrible talent for Moonkins. DOC is only viable as Feral specifically for the instant-cast HT's. It simply worsens the weaknesses of Moonkin.
Incarnation is still godly.
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90 Worgen Druid
12270
sotf keeps you in eclipse more which makes mastery actually worth something more than 50% of the time
you should have NS to get your instant cast heals as well for moonkin

yes its better for feral though.
biggest point, druids are the bastard child blizzard doesnt want acknowledge
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90 Troll Druid
7605
02/02/2013 07:19 PMPosted by Zhabri
sotf keeps you in eclipse more which makes mastery actually worth something more than 50% of the time


Mastery already has a much higher uptime than that, unless you're doing things terribly wrong. Sotf does still help with that, but when you compare it to a damage CD like incarnation, the winner couldn't be more obvious.

And NS is available once a minute, which is nowhere near as often as it should be for DoC to even be considered.
Edited by Velaniz on 2/2/2013 7:41 PM PST
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90 Troll Druid
7605
02/01/2013 02:37 PMPosted by Swampdonkeys
God, I wish they would put eclipse back where it came from :(


Eclipse was already conceived in a more primordial state the moment Wrath and Starfire began to proc abilities which buffed the other. In that respect, nothing has changed, save the addition of a third nuke that also interacts with the other two in a similiar fashion.

The only difference is what was once entirely Rng-gated is now fully under your control - control you properly exercise with the aid of a bar.
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90 Human Paladin
13665
A. We like the new talents to be a meaningful choice, except when it comes to Moonkins...
About 90-99% of the PVE raiding moonkins have the exact same talent choices. It goes like this:
Tier 1: Well diversified, mixed uses - I've seen many people taking just about all of these
Tier 2: NS / Tier 3: Typhoon / Tier 4: Incarnation / Tier 5: Vortex / Tier 6: NV


Prot paladins have a similar issue across many talent tiers, and I'm CERTAIN that other specs/classes do as well. Plainly put, the devs have the stats, and they are aware. But it's not a critical issue right now, so they're only changing ones that really need to be changed.
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90 Pandaren Shaman
9330
02/02/2013 08:55 AMPosted by Linnaeus
Just like micromanaging your mana as arcane is a gimmick and not fun, etc.


Sorry, but probably the most fun I've ever had in pve on my mage was during the heyday of 40/0/21.

They haven't really gotten back to that, but the idea is still cool.
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90 Pandaren Shaman
9330
02/02/2013 07:48 PMPosted by Velaniz
God, I wish they would put eclipse back where it came from :(


Eclipse was already conceived in a more primordial state the moment Wrath and Starfire began to proc abilities which buffed the other. In that respect, nothing has changed, save the addition of a third nuke that also interacts with the other two in a similiar fashion.

The only difference is what was once entirely Rng-gated is now fully under your control - control you properly exercise with the aid of a bar.


Oh, for sure, but what we have now is complete garbage. It's so ridiculously contrived and doesn't feel fluid at all.
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13 Goblin Mage
10390
I get on my shadow priest and I see glyphs that are mandatory...really taking away from the "fun glyphs"

I see the same on my hunter. Have to glyph certain glyphs just to make the spell useful, taking away from fun glyphs

I see the same on my lock.

And really, my moonkin...I feel has the widest selection of "fun" stuff becasue all the cool spells have their stuff baked in already.
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90 Troll Druid
14580
02/03/2013 03:16 AMPosted by Gimpi
And really, my moonkin...I feel has the widest selection of "fun" stuff becasue all the cool spells have their stuff baked in already.

Minor glyphs don't count. All raiding druids [moonkins] use 4 specific major glyphs: Stampede, Stampeding Roar, Moonbeast, (and Rebirth, though). The only mandatory glyph is Moonbeast, but the shear lack of options (since the majority of glyphs are for PvP) doesn't really offer that "Hmm, maybe this glyph is better for this encounter" feeling. Actually, it doesn't exist at all.
Edited by Cyous on 2/3/2013 9:26 AM PST
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90 Night Elf Druid
6630
I appreciate what you are trying to do here...but it's quite obvious that druids are among the lowest priority classes atm. Feral hasn't really been updated since Wrath. Resto lagged 30% behind other healers all tier. Balance has been a dead, clunky spec since Cata.

While I do hope druids get some love, I'm having a blast on my priest and DK these days...
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