We like.... (except when it is Moonkins)

90 Troll Druid
14580
Have you seen the set bonus for mookins?: Plus 1000 mastery and plus 1000 crit whenever you hit eclipse.

Id trade you that over the "generates resources faster" that is my set bonus.

1000 Mastery = ~3% additional damage while in Eclipse. (~66% uptime on Eclipse for a real encounter, 2% effective increase)
1000 Crit = ~2.75% Crit ( [ ( 34.75-32.00 ) / 32.00 ]= +8.0% effective Crits) (Still doesn't translate directly into "ideal" Crits ~ DOTs, SS, SF while Eclipsed or in Solar Eclipse)

Our set bonus is pretty good if I get to stand still for the entire encounter and cycle through Eclipse as freely as I want. It's nothing to gasp over, it's stapling a couple stats to a proc which is literally made useless by the most basic of raid mechanics [Forced Movement].

A few set bonuses are really nice. A few set bonuses are mediocre. This one is mediocre.
Reply Quote
90 Worgen Druid
6550
Um.... lowest priority? Double check your thinking really quick
Go to Youtube and look at Method's 5.2 raid testing videos and tell me that moonkins are bad in pve.


Just because boomys can pull good dps doesn't mean it's not extremely clunky. There are a lot of things to deal with as a boomy that can be very frustrating.

Movement, natures grace uptime, on demand aoe, and CD timing are some of boomy's biggest concerns. Movement dps is really, annoyingly awful compared to most other range (Spriest feel some of this pain) and lost time on nature's grace between eclipse can be devistating.

The whole lack of interesting glyphs is a minor thing imo compared to boomy's biggest issues.
Reply Quote
90 Worgen Druid
11265
Have you seen the set bonus for mookins?: Plus 1000 mastery and plus 1000 crit whenever you hit eclipse.

Id trade you that over the "generates resources faster" that is my set bonus.


no you wouldnt. you know why? because youd realise that your spec is based around bandaid fixes in the form of tier bonuses.

dont believe me? check back all the moonkin tiers since ulduar. youll see why. our tier bonuses have even been nerfed so we move into the next ones.

id take spec polishing and actual adjustment over tier bonuses anyday. know why? because if you are balanced around or expected to do good based on that bonus, what if rng fails and you get it way late? so you suck until then eh?
Reply Quote
90 Troll Druid
14580
02/04/2013 08:04 PMPosted by Suprêmacy
dont believe me? check back all the moonkin tiers since ulduar. youll see why. our tier bonuses have even been nerfed so we move into the next ones.

R.I.P. T11 4pc.
Reply Quote
100 Troll Druid
16265
I'm not an expert, in fact I've raided a little on this tier as Boomy but went on hiatus for a while. But I can share this feeling, as I've been playing this spec since BC and seen many different phases of it. I can say we have had some significant development and have had answered some of our concerns during Dragon Soul itself (less Eclispe downtime, less clunky Starfall handling, less tought when using DoTs, more CDs to burst), but on doing so and adding the whole talent revamp, we actually got a messy spec and some mechanics that collide with the design(?) of it.


Just because boomys can pull good dps doesn't mean it's not extremely clunky. There are a lot of things to deal with as a boomy that can be very frustrating.

Movement, natures grace uptime, on demand aoe, and CD timing are some of boomy's biggest concerns. Movement dps is really, annoyingly awful compared to most other range (Spriest feel some of this pain) and lost time on nature's grace between eclipse can be devistating.

The whole lack of interesting glyphs is a minor thing imo compared to boomy's biggest issues.


Just to explain a bit further these concerns from the PvE-side, focusing on the class without any other Tier and such:

Movement: We can deal with this using Shrooms/Detonate and Lunar Shower. Now I'm pretty sure LS has a disadvantage (pertaining to all DoTs actually) which is spamming Moonfire/Sunfire, which by default refreshes the DoT with the snapshot of the Spellpower, Haste, Crit and other buffers you have (Eclipse, CDs, Trinkets, etc). While the buffers are active, this near-zero mana cost spam is useful... until the buffers are over and you start risking on refreshing the damage of the DoT with less and less buffs.

Nature's Grace Uptime: The problem is not the buff, but how to keep the uptime on it. To transitate from Eclipse to Eclipse, you have to succesfully cast Starfire, Wrath, Starsurge or channel Astral Communion which during it you deal 0 damage. In movement, we only have RNG procs from Shooting Stars. So we have to use 3 standstill casted spells and 1 instant-cast RNG proc to move the bar ASAP to the next Eclipse or we lose the NG buff.

CD Timing: Moonkins, baseline speaking, have a cooldown (Celestial Alignment), plus a possible 2 extra ones through talents (Incarnation: Chosen of Elune or Force of Nature @60 and Nature's Vigil @90 if we talk about damage CDs).
I'm going to focus on the most prominent combination of all since FoN as a CD is not very competitive damage wise and does not stack multiplicatively with other buffs/CDs... Which leaves us with CeA+Incar+NV (Not used all 3 at the same time, but under a 30-sec opener). This actually makes us 3-min wonders on a 30 sec sequence, but as you know, we offset this with lower power the rest of the time. On one hand, having CDs helps us to deal with bursty situations, but the current stacking we do is way too damage-heavy and that actually hits us in a myriad of ways (having a sizable difference in our damage depending on how many times we can use the opener rotation, for example, plus movement that starts under the 30sec mark).

On-demand AoE: This issue is tied to Nature's Grace too. To do AoE, we have Hurricane (AstralStorm in Lunar Eclipse), Shrooms/Detonate, and couple that with Moonfire/Sunfire multidotting and even Starfall (although I wouldn't call those AoE anyway). Still, our greatest AoE damage is tied to Hurricane, a channeled AoE but does not produce Eclipse Energy, so when it comes down to rush to the next Eclipse (and keep NG up), you are still tied to the single-target rotation or use multidotting and get SS procs to hasten up that transition.

TL;DR:
Possibly some of these points mentioned are the "Challenge of mastering a Balance Druid". I can't actually shorten the post more without hiding relevant information about the "issues"... heck, some of them might even be within the sought-after design of the spec, but I digress.

Now that the design as it is feels clunky when put into real encounters (T14 as of now), it's something that can be considered too as feedback.

I think we just lack some QoL fixes and more synergy with the talent tree itself (feels so... alien from the base rotation itself), not just mindless stacking of spells.
Edited by Toucanio on 2/4/2013 11:25 PM PST
Reply Quote
100 Night Elf Druid
15530
Angry boomkin has never played a fire mage. Our main DPS cool down is entirely RNG dependent.


Been there. Done that. My mage is still fire and you'll notice that my OS is NOT boomkin anymore.
Reply Quote
90 Troll Druid
14580
02/05/2013 10:32 PMPosted by Kagecamia
So who has the best and who has the worst tier bonuses this patch? The generate resources faster for locks doesnt sound that great on paper or in practice.

It's not about having the best or worst, it's having the most practical set bonus for the tier's encounters.

Oh, but Elemental set bonus is ridiculously overpowered.
Reply Quote
100 Troll Druid
16265
Tier bonuses act like that. Sometimes are "huge", sometimes are just "meh". If anything, is it even necessary for a Tier Bonus to make you more effective at the encounters or it's just that it should provide a boost?

Anyway, we can discuss Tier Bonuses all the day, but still the issues among each spec on each class will not go away, unless ofc, you use set bonuses to offset those things, in which case we have a lot of Tier-history among probably every single DPS spec (and maybe even some Tanks/Healers) to say why it's not a good idea.

Personally I think we should return to what's going on the Balance Druid spec, and not allow derailing of this thread by things like "who's got it worse" among DPS.
Reply Quote
90 Worgen Druid
11265


no you wouldnt. you know why? because youd realise that your spec is based around bandaid fixes in the form of tier bonuses.

dont believe me? check back all the moonkin tiers since ulduar. youll see why. our tier bonuses have even been nerfed so we move into the next ones.

id take spec polishing and actual adjustment over tier bonuses anyday. know why? because if you are balanced around or expected to do good based on that bonus, what if rng fails and you get it way late? so you suck until then eh?


So who has the best and who has the worst tier bonuses this patch? The generate resources faster for locks doesnt sound that great on paper or in practice.


how can you even argue a dead ended point like that? who gives a crap if your tier gives you a million advantages. do you really want to be balanced by a rng dependant gear piece? what if you never get it? what if you get all 3 pieces but not the last piece? you want to be dependant on that piece of gear?

i really dont get your point. do you think locks will suck vs moonkins cuz moonkins have a good 4 pc and you dont? only a lousy lock would loose to a moonkin. and an even worse one will blame their 4 piece for it.

or are you implying that, our 4 pc is so awesome that we should do great? because that again is flawed. being balanced around a piece of gear is stupid.
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Mage
6075
Fire is hardly RNG anymore.

Get 1 crit

Inferno Blast.

Oh look, Pyroblast! Soooooo RNG.

Except for the part where inferno blast has a cooldown and that in order to get a solid combustion you'd need more than 1 pyroblast.
Fire is very RNG based.
02/05/2013 08:40 PMPosted by Zyleia
Been there. Done that. My mage is still fire and you'll notice that my OS is NOT boomkin anymore.

Yes but he's only level 88.
Edited by Warping on 2/7/2013 7:31 PM PST
Reply Quote
90 Worgen Druid
11265
Been more than 6 weeks, all we have heard is nature's vigil and insane tweaking on cyclone and mushrooms.

Any word would be better than no word, devs. I am getting tired of seeing druid on patch notes and all thats under it is, "wild mushrooms are now acting in such way with xyz" "cyclone has been moved here there everywhere".

Moonkins need a word please.
Reply Quote
90 Troll Druid
14580
02/11/2013 01:31 PMPosted by Suprêmacy
Moonkins need a word please.

9% buff to our nukes, though I really don't know why. (honestly, no idea why we got this buff)
Reply Quote
90 Worgen Druid
9355
02/11/2013 05:46 PMPosted by Cyous
Moonkins need a word please.

9% buff to our nukes, though I really don't know why. (honestly, no idea why we got this buff)


They realized we are lagging behind. They can't figure out why. Throw out some buffs rather then identifying the cause. I've been playing my moonkin since Nax25, the deeper we get into this expac, the more things I need to micro manage to keep up/stay mid pack, the more I'm considering main switching to my mage that just generally feels more fluid and less stressful to play. I used to have faith in the devs, this expac literally feels like there is a whole new set of devs behind the wheel that don't understand 3/4s of the specs and won't learn them til 6.0 or so.
Reply Quote
90 Troll Druid
14580
I don't have much history as Balance (T11 - Present), but the skill cap required to compete is much higher than other speccs. Honestly, I think DOC Feral/Balance is the hardest DPS system, then Balance non-DOC, then others. So many little things need to go right for you to play well, but a lot of "forcing good RNG" is on the player's end. I really have no issues with Balance damage output at the moment, though I wouldn't mind some QoL changes (primary AOE being a 10sec channel which has been mechanically the same for 8 years? boring beyond excessive adjectives).

I didn't think we needed single-target buffs. (My experience is probably not your own.) It feels like they making changes for the wrong reasons.
Reply Quote
90 Worgen Druid
9355
LOL @ astral storm/hurricane. NG drops and it suddenly turns into garbage. I've volenteered to be dispel !@#$% for that fight in particular rather then kill myself trying to keep NG up so I can spam hurricane more.

You are right, on stand and nuke fights I think we are doing decent, maybe a touch behind but I can at least fight for a top spot. I think by creating higher peaks blizz is trying to solve our movement issue a little as well as compensate for the NV nerf. Really though, I'm stabbing in the dark and I'm right there with you. No idea why they are buffing those spells.

On a side note, like my boots and bracers? RNG loves me.
Edited by Solbiadeus on 2/12/2013 12:20 AM PST
Reply Quote
90 Troll Druid
14580
02/12/2013 12:16 AMPosted by Solbiadeus
On a side note, like my boots and bracers? RNG loves me.

You need to find a more expensive RNG. That way you at least enjoy it for a little while. :(
Reply Quote
The 9% buff has a very band-aid flavor to it. My experience has been similar to Cyous': fights on which we're able to just turret (well, as close as we'll get to turreting this tier), I haven't had much to complain about other than NG being a wee bit tight if I feel like using any utility at all during Eclipse. Problems arise from our double-dip on fun-sucking movement/AoE. :<

I really want to believe that there's secret work going on behind the doors of Blizzard to at least address to us their thoughts on issues a lot of you guys have brought up, and to understand where we're coming from. Even if it's something like, "Hey, we hear you, but we're pretty good with where Balance is at," or "Would rather nerf other classes' mobility/whatever down instead of Balance QoL buffs," that'd be fine. I want to get the impression that even for such a small spec minority among the rest of WoW, we still get some love (though I'd settle for attention) even after a pretty large overhaul. (looking at Warlocks as an example of doing that fairly well, they still get a fair amount of blue response)

I know we get yelled at for saying we 'feel' ignored, but honestly it's been really quiet on the Balance front. Not saying I want every post on the mmo-champ front page to have Balance discussion/changes, but it'd be nice to see a few words every few weeks.

I know GC was saying he was tentative about giving out that buff info, probably because of the fact that the posts above exist (not knocking you guys <3), and I'm just going to assume that it's part of an internal Blizzard process to figure out what's wrong/how to address concerns with Balance. It's certainly not the QoL change many have asked for, so what I get from it is a vague "Balance mechanics are okay-ish" message.

With this and the T15 tier bonus it definitely seems as though they're trying their hardest to keep us a turret with RNG movement.

Like I say, it'd just be nice to have a little communication so not every Balance druid is grabbing in the dark for why we have any problems that we do.

But it's late, I'm tired and probably massively underinformed, so oh well.

EDIT: Also WTB option for Mushroom AoE again, doesn't need to be OP though ;-; May have been awkward to use at times, but I'd rather have a potentially interesting mechanic than one that literally lets me check email during AoE.
Edited by Khamke on 2/12/2013 6:12 AM PST
Reply Quote
90 Worgen Druid
11265
02/11/2013 05:46 PMPosted by Cyous
Moonkins need a word please.

9% buff to our nukes, though I really don't know why. (honestly, no idea why we got this buff)


what?! where?!?!?!
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)

Reported!

[Close]