I love Mistweaver monks, but...

90 Pandaren Monk
6860
Sometimes, I feel my AoE heals are a bit lacking. I used to have Uplift glyphed, but upon having severe difficulty with mana management, I removed it, and mana management became a breeze. Is there something I'm doing, or are Mistweavers more tank healers than raid healers?
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90 Goblin Warlock
7555
01/26/2013 12:28 AMPosted by Fistlobster
Sometimes, I feel my AoE heals are a bit lacking. I used to have Uplift glyphed, but upon having severe difficulty with mana management, I removed it, and mana management became a breeze. Is there something I'm doing, or are Mistweavers more tank healers than raid healers?


Practice your TFT timings. That's pretty much all you can do though. Your AoE heals are going to be tied down to the whims of ReM and raid stacking mechanics more than your own ability.
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90 Undead Monk
13750
AoE healing is actually what we're best at, its just an uncontrollable mess though. If its 10-mans then you're okay because you can pretty much cover the raid in Renewing Mist which ticks quickly and makes up a large portion of your healing in raids.

Single-target is where we really don't do so well unless you're fond of spamming Healing Spheres.
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90 Pandaren Monk
6860
Alright. Thanks guys. I've been slotted to heal in my guild's 10 man. I feel most comfortable with tank heals, to be honest, but I'd like to think I do well with ambient RM and Uplift healing.
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90 Pandaren Monk
13120
Single-target is where we really don't do so well unless you're fond of spamming Healing Spheres.


I don't know why people say this stuff. Do people just take Surging Mists off their bars? Yes, it costs a lot of mana, but it is more efficient than other Flash Heal equivalents (thanks to the Chi gen, if nothing else). As long as you're smart about your use of SM and Chi, our single target healing is fine.

Monks have an instant HOT that costs no mana to cast, buffs our Heal equivalent (Soothing Mists), a decent tank cooldown (it has an absorb component which is nice and buffs our ST healing ridiculously, unfortunately things like PS and HoSac will always be better because they are full absorb mechanics, however it is nice for embarrassing other healers on Tsulong). Did I mention SM is also instant? If a Monk wants to save a tank RIGHT NOW, they get saved.

All of the healers can do about the same single target healing. The only difference is that Paladins have Beacon, which makes them more efficient (but only when healing two tanks that are both taking damage). There is everybody else, and then there are Paladins.

As for AOE, keep your Renewing Mists on CD, and find times to use TFT appropriately. There are also good times to use Spinning Crane Kick, or to unglyph Renewing Mists. Find them too.
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90 Night Elf Druid
11915
Well in 5.2 you'll want to used Uplift unglyphed. Since the lvl 30 Chi Bomb talents will no longer cost Chi and instead be on cooldown you'll have excess Chi to cast Uplift. That should help with your mana issues with Uplift. The change kinda annoys me since while leveling up I've grown to love banking Chi and using Chi Burst as my goto heal.
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90 Gnome Monk
7430

Monks have an instant HOT that costs no mana to cast, buffs our Heal equivalent (Soothing Mists), a decent tank cooldown (it has an absorb component which is nice and buffs our ST healing ridiculously, unfortunately things like PS and HoSac will always be better because they are full absorb mechanics, however it is nice for embarrassing other healers on Tsulong). Did I mention SM is also instant? If a Monk wants to save a tank RIGHT NOW, they get saved.


This is only true if you are spending 100% of your time channeling soothing on that particular target. There are many pve fights where that is impractical, to say the least. Not to mention how awful it is in a pvp environment (follow the green line to lock out/kill the heals!).

While I agree that our st healing is not as awful as some claim, there are some areas where it could be improved. As an example, I personally would prefer it if my surging mist ends the channel and hard casts on my current target if it is different from my soothing mist target as opposed to instantly on my soothing target. Also, having a "big heal" type option that isn't a 6 second HoT would be nice even if it costs 4 chi or 40k mana or however they want to make it less appealing.
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Even if we Mistweavers were equally able to single-target(read: tank) heal compared to the other healing classes(which I really doubt), you would have to do so at the expense of your far superior raid healing. Mistweavers are the thoroughput healing spec right now; in other words, they lack utility(beside a strong shield on CD), but make up for it with high HPS. It is best for you to take advantage of that fact, and raid heal (where you are strongest) then to squander your ability to contribute optimally by tank healing.
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Oh, and btw, glyphing Uplift is a REALLY bad idea, in 5.1 and it'll only be worse in 5.2. With mana already being a precious resource, there is no reason to make one of your highest healing spells, one you will be spamming, cost mana. If you find it hard to generate the chi to uplift, jab more.

Basically, the MW "rotation" is:

  • jab for chi whenever you can do so,
  • ReM on cooldown(never even miss a second once it comes off CD, make sure to watch the timer!),
  • if you have >=7 ReM out and there is raid damage, Uplift whenever possible
  • if you have <7 ReM out and there is raid damage, Chi Burst.
  • if there is low damage, fistweave(as in, keep tiger power up, and cast blackout kick and keep its 2 stack buff up).
  • also, chi torpedo is a great filler spell if you can use it correctly. not only is it free to cast, but it does a whole lot of healing over the course of the fight. Just make sure not to run into bad stuff with it(like garalon, etc)!

    forgot to add in, use TFT about 8-9 sec before you know there will be heavy raid damage. Or, use it on cooldown on fights that have constant damage, like garalon, heroic will, phase 2 of normal empress, etc)
    Edited by Faolain on 1/26/2013 3:11 PM PST
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    90 Human Monk
    10960
    MW are great at putting out raidwide hps but they are terrible at "raid healing". Monks more than any other healer have to rely on other healers to help keep people alive. It's one of the biggest gaps in our healing right now and it's something that I'm still hoping they address in 5.2.

    When people say that MW are bad tank healers, it's not true but if you say that MW are bad single target healers, then that's absolutely true. What I mean by this is trying to heal multiple targets using single target spells, or what most classes call healing the raid. MW rely so much on RM and uplift to do their raid healing because trying to do it any other way is just not efficient or effective. Trying to rely on soothing mists doesn't work because of how slowly it heals and it's inefficient targeting. Relying on Surging Mists to spot heal around the raid works, but it's so limiting because of it's mana cost. People have figured this out and tried using the casted Healing Sphere to fill this gap, which is does, but it's just a horrible way to heal that it shows the desperation.

    The hope is that with the changes to fistweaving that it will fill that middle of the road gap where you need extra healing but are utterly crippled by the renewing mists mechanic. I still don't think it's going to fix the problem by any stretch of the imagination, but it might be a step in the right direction.

    Until monks get an efficient middle of the road single target heal or less of a reliance is put casting RM on cooldown and hoping it jumps to those who need it, then monks will always have that time where you just have nothing to press.
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    90 Blood Elf Priest
    11355
    In 10 mans, I wasn't finding that mistweaving put out sufficiently superior HPS to negate the RNG nature of our heals. Since switching back to my disc priest (with inferior gear), my HPS and control are higher. I've stopped dreading raids again ^_^
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    90 Pandaren Monk
    11830
    01/26/2013 08:25 AMPosted by Ramayana
    Single-target is where we really don't do so well unless you're fond of spamming Healing Spheres.


    I don't know why people say this stuff. Do people just take Surging Mists off their bars? Yes, it costs a lot of mana, but it is more efficient than other Flash Heal equivalents (thanks to the Chi gen, if nothing else). As long as you're smart about your use of SM and Chi, our single target healing is fine.



    People keep saying it, because Surging Mists is the least mana efficient single target heal. "It's more mana efficient than Flash Heal"? Not even close. "But it gives you chi, which gives you mana tea, which gives you mana!" you say. Yep, which is like saying Flash Heal is better because Priests have Rapture and Shadowfiend, and we don't. You can't just cherry pick the fact that we have chi, if you are going to ignore that other classes have mana regen mechanics as well. At the end of the day, Surging Mist is simply not viable for single target healing at its current mana cost, except in the case of emergencies.
    In addition, other classes have abilities to make their flash heal cheaper or more effective (Selfless Healer, Tidal Waves, From Darkness Comes Light, Omen of Clarity), and we don't (outside of TFT, which is almost always used for RM, not SuM), so they can rely on them more. We cannot. Next patch, this might change with the change to Zen Sphere becoming free and auto healing when the target falls low, but currently we are fairly weak when it comes to tank healing.
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    90 Pandaren Monk
    6860
    MW are great at putting out raidwide hps but they are terrible at "raid healing". Monks more than any other healer have to rely on other healers to help keep people alive. It's one of the biggest gaps in our healing right now and it's something that I'm still hoping they address in 5.2.

    When people say that MW are bad tank healers, it's not true but if you say that MW are bad single target healers, then that's absolutely true. What I mean by this is trying to heal multiple targets using single target spells, or what most classes call healing the raid. MW rely so much on RM and uplift to do their raid healing because trying to do it any other way is just not efficient or effective. Trying to rely on soothing mists doesn't work because of how slowly it heals and it's inefficient targeting. Relying on Surging Mists to spot heal around the raid works, but it's so limiting because of it's mana cost. People have figured this out and tried using the casted Healing Sphere to fill this gap, which is does, but it's just a horrible way to heal that it shows the desperation.

    The hope is that with the changes to fistweaving that it will fill that middle of the road gap where you need extra healing but are utterly crippled by the renewing mists mechanic. I still don't think it's going to fix the problem by any stretch of the imagination, but it might be a step in the right direction.

    Until monks get an efficient middle of the road single target heal or less of a reliance is put casting RM on cooldown and hoping it jumps to those who need it, then monks will always have that time where you just have nothing to press.

    Honestly, this feels like the answer I was looking for. I had a priest in Cata, so I'm used to the mind set of Target > Heal/Renew/so on. Having to jump to what I do now, albeit progressively, takes some getting used to. I'll need to work on actually fistweaving once I feel more comfortable with my spirit, but I'm glad I think I know my problem. Thank you. :)
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    90 Blood Elf Monk
    7725
    01/28/2013 12:16 PMPosted by Erayo


    I don't know why people say this stuff. Do people just take Surging Mists off their bars? Yes, it costs a lot of mana, but it is more efficient than other Flash Heal equivalents (thanks to the Chi gen, if nothing else). As long as you're smart about your use of SM and Chi, our single target healing is fine.



    People keep saying it, because Surging Mists is the least mana efficient single target heal. "It's more mana efficient than Flash Heal"? Not even close. "But it gives you chi, which gives you mana tea, which gives you mana!" you say. Yep, which is like saying Flash Heal is better because Priests have Rapture and Shadowfiend, and we don't. You can't just cherry pick the fact that we have chi, if you are going to ignore that other classes have mana regen mechanics as well. At the end of the day, Surging Mist is simply not viable for single target healing at its current mana cost, except in the case of emergencies.
    In addition, other classes have abilities to make their flash heal cheaper or more effective (Selfless Healer, Tidal Waves, From Darkness Comes Light, Omen of Clarity), and we don't (outside of TFT, which is almost always used for RM, not SuM), so they can rely on them more. We cannot. Next patch, this might change with the change to Zen Sphere becoming free and auto healing when the target falls low, but currently we are fairly weak when it comes to tank healing.


    We have Vital Mists, but even then surging still sucks. Wait till 5.2, Tigerpalm is gonna be great.
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    90 Pandaren Monk
    13120
    People keep saying it, because Surging Mists is the least mana efficient single target heal. "It's more mana efficient than Flash Heal"? Not even close. "But it gives you chi, which gives you mana tea, which gives you mana!" you say. Yep, which is like saying Flash Heal is better because Priests have Rapture and Shadowfiend, and we don't. You can't just cherry pick the fact that we have chi, if you are going to ignore that other classes have mana regen mechanics as well. At the end of the day, Surging Mist is simply not viable for single target healing at its current mana cost, except in the case of emergencies.


    Its not the Mana Tea stacks, its the free healing from Enveloping Mists or Uplift. Mistweaver is about efficient use of Chi, and you can make your mana go a long way through efficient use of Chi.

    Mana Tea = Shadowfiend, true. However, our Chi spells are basically free from a mana perspective, so our mana costs need to be balanced with that in mind. Again, if you're good at using Chi, you have to factor in that Chi usage when considering the efficiency of Surging Mist. The other thing about Mana Tea is that unlike Shadowfiend and similar cooldowns, it can give variable amounts of mana back depending on your playstyle and encounter mechanics (Tsulong is stupid good for mana tea for instance). Mana Tea also seems to be a bit more generous in the mana department than other CDs if you do the math.

    In addition, other classes have abilities to make their flash heal cheaper or more effective (Selfless Healer, Tidal Waves, From Darkness Comes Light, Omen of Clarity), and we don't (outside of TFT, which is almost always used for RM, not SuM), so they can rely on them more. We cannot. Next patch, this might change with the change to Zen Sphere becoming free and auto healing when the target falls low, but currently we are fairly weak when it comes to tank healing.


    Again, it sounds like you're just bad at using Chi properly. You don't want to spam Surging Mist, certainly, but its there, ready to save the day when you need it (the instant cast nature is also particularly helpful).

    The only problem with MW right now is on demand burst healing (even if you're fastidious about your ReM/TFT usage, you'll still run into bad timing problems where you just don't have any ReM out at the moment).
    Edited by Ramayana on 1/29/2013 3:50 AM PST
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    90 Blood Elf Paladin
    9515
    "But it gives you chi, which gives you mana tea, which gives you mana!" you say. Yep, which is like saying Flash Heal is better because Priests have Rapture and Shadowfiend, and we don't.

    I don't get to cast more Shadowfiends when I cast more Flash Heals.

    You have a certain baseline amount of Chi you're expected to generate by casting RM on CD and some Soothing Mists. The Mana Tea from that is your "Shadowfiend." When discussing any spell that generates additional Chi beyond that baseline level, you have to factor the Chi generated (both the healing it does and the mana return from spending it) into any consideration of that spell's efficiency.

    01/28/2013 12:16 PMPosted by Erayo
    In addition, other classes have abilities to make their flash heal cheaper or more effective (Selfless Healer, Tidal Waves, From Darkness Comes Light, Omen of Clarity), and we don't (outside of TFT, which is almost always used for RM, not SuM), so they can rely on them more.

    Selfless Healer and Tidal Waves are the only mechanics among the ones you listed that anyone can 'rely' on.

    SH: Until the next patch, SH requires spending an inordinate number of GCDs and a significant amount of mana doing no healing at all (it's seriously a pain in the !@# to try to fit into a pally healing rotation - it's like you've got two separate Holy Power systems, each with its own generating ability on a separate 6-second cooldown). On top of that, since there's only about a 10-second window to use your instant mega-heal after you've generated it, you often have to choose between wasting most of it and spending more mana to roll the buff (which, since you have to do it so often, usually results in lower overall efficiency than taking Eternal Flame and just spending the same free GCDs on normal heals).

    SH is not something I would consider when discussing paladin single-target healing. WoG/EF is what's generally used in circumstances where most other healers would use a flash heal.

    TW: Guaranteed buff, but with an RNG-based effect on Healing Surge. On average, it's nice, I'll grant that. But it's nicer for Healing Wave (preventing the need to use Surge). Nobody wants to use their flash heal.

    OOC is completely random. It does help with overall healing efficiency, but you can never count on it to be up when you would actually have chosen to use a Flash Heal-type spell. OOC Regrowths are more likely to be used where other classes would have used a cheap heal or an AoE direct heal.

    FDCL is not only completely random, but also only procs from spells that priests hardly ever cast. And taking the talent means sacrificing some of our cooldown-based regen. You absolutely, positively should not factor in FDCL in a comparison of flash heals.

    Now, it is worth considering Serendipity for holy priests. There's a very good argument to be made that holy priests win the flash heal competition because of Serendipity. But...well, honestly, that hasn't exactly turned us into must-have tank healers. Having something like Eternal Flame or Enveloping Mist or PWS (instant, free, large heal with ideally some sort of buffering effect) is much more powerful.
    Edited by Kaeladin on 1/29/2013 5:12 AM PST
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    90 Blood Elf Mage
    17065
    01/28/2013 12:16 PM Posted by Erayo

    In addition, other classes have abilities to make their flash heal cheaper or more effective (Selfless Healer, Tidal Waves, From Darkness Comes Light, Omen of Clarity), and we don't (outside of TFT, which is almost always used for RM, not SuM), so they can rely on them more.


    Selfless Healer and Tidal Waves are the only mechanics among the ones you listed that anyone can 'rely' on.


    A niggle: tidal waves does not affect our flash heal equivalent (healing surge). It makes the next two healing waves or greater healing waves hasted.
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    90 Pandaren Monk
    8135
    01/26/2013 08:25 AMPosted by Ramayana
    Single-target is where we really don't do so well unless you're fond of spamming Healing Spheres.


    I don't know why people say this stuff. Do people just take Surging Mists off their bars? Yes, it costs a lot of mana, but it is more efficient than other Flash Heal equivalents (thanks to the Chi gen, if nothing else). As long as you're smart about your use of SM and Chi, our single target healing is fine.


    Good one mate hehe... wait ... is he... is he been serious ? Don't troll me =/
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    Selfless Healer and Tidal Waves are the only mechanics among the ones you listed that anyone can 'rely' on.


    A niggle: tidal waves does not affect our flash heal equivalent (healing surge). It makes the next two healing waves or greater healing waves hasted.


    I thought it also increased the crit chance of Healing Surge.
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    90 Blood Elf Priest
    6910


    A niggle: tidal waves does not affect our flash heal equivalent (healing surge). It makes the next two healing waves or greater healing waves hasted.


    I thought it also increased the crit chance of Healing Surge.


    It does. By 30%.
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