Holy pally PVE help/guides/info

90 Human Paladin
15320
I've been looking around for information on how I can improve my healing for specific fights and I'm finding that it's rather limited for holy pallys. I've checked elisit jerks, noxxic, icy-veins, the forums and there is a ton of information on building a spec, spells, and stats but little information about fight specific healing strats for us.

Anyone know of some resources?
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90 Human Paladin
15450
I don't think you will find any. The strats and talents that you take will differs depending on raid make up, 2 vs. 3 healings, how good is your dps, the type of tanks that you have, how good is your raid at executing the mechanics of the fights, or what strats you are using on that fight.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
12550
01/27/2013 10:06 PMPosted by Rasul
I don't think you will find any. The strats and talents that you take will differs depending on raid make up, 2 vs. 3 healings, how good is your dps, the type of tanks that you have, how good is your raid at executing the mechanics of the fights, or what strats you are using on that fight.


Riôt
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90 Human Paladin
15320
Fair enough. I was curious because my fiance and I are the healing team for our 10 man raid group. We mainly 2 heal and have a hybrid that will heal a few fights. Point being, from my perspective there seems to be a ton of information available on disc priest optimal healing (albeit they are overpowered ;P). Just was hoping to find something that gave a good general direction on optimal healing for pallys. As well as some fight specific talent swaps, etc.
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90 Blood Elf Mage
11780
There was one website that had boss fights bases off each spec that advertised here a few times, I'm not sure how reliable their information is but may be worth checking out http://www.the9thbuff.com/

One thing you can also do is check YouTube for POV videos for a paladin to kinda get a feel for things. As said, it depends on your raid makeup but it can give you a few ideas.

And also, don't use Noxxic :P
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90 Draenei Paladin
13095
Well, I'd plug my guide over in the Pally forums but it doesn't go quite as in-depth as you're looking for. (/shamelessplug)

What you need isn't a step-by-step that lays out okay, you take X talent for fight 1 and Y talent for fight 2, but rather you need to get a good grasp of how the different talents function and the situations that they're all useful in, and then work that into the fight/mechanics/comp/strategy.

For example, Light's Hammer is a ridiculously powerful ground AoE heal, it really does an extremely substantial amount of healing... if people are stacked up in it for a reasonable period of time. There are cases (at least on 10m) where Holy Prism's burst sort-of-AoE may be superior for topping off the melee/tank, or perhaps even Execution Sentence for a planned tank damage spike (I believe Will of the Emperor was a suggestion from Kaels, although that's dependent on a few variables).

Okay, so if people aren't stacked in the Light's Hammer, then Holy Prism is better? Sort of. Holy Prism has a somewhat short range, and worse it travels from the center of the mob/boss's hitbox rather than the outside. So on Garalon, unless you have a leg that is perfectly placed right in the raid (very rare), Holy Prism really isn't that strong of a choice. Even if Light's Hammer is only healing half the raid or not lasting its full duration.

Fortunately, not all of our talent choices are as complicated as level 90's. Need overall HPS and mana efficiency? Divine Purpose. Need more burst healing, particularly AoE? Holy Avenger. (I'm still unclear about the use of Sanctified Wrath, I haven't really seen anybody give a reasonable basis for using it as Holy, but I may be wrong. I debated it vs. HA for H Lei Shi, but the lower cooldown won out!)

What else... Tier 15 is all preference, although I'd shy away from the Judgement one as Holy since we have little reason to cast the spell outside of a few oddball talents. T30 is utility stuff that we barely use unless we need a CC or improved stun. T45 heavily favors Eternal Flame, but Sacred Shield can sometimes win out if you a) are using LoD the vast vast majority of the time, or b) there is very heavy focused damage on a tank and the absorb shield will help with survival a looot. T60 is more utility - Clemency is the default choice for an extra Hand of Sacrifice for your tanks, but Hand of Purity of OMGWTFBBQGOOD for any kind of DoT damage (there are a few fights this tier with nasty bleeds/magical DoTs) and the other talent... I don't even remember the name... it's not bad for the occasional Divine Protection I guess.

So yeah. I just wrote an essay but that's kind of the jist of things. Now you have to fit it all into your raid :-)

edit: ... I probably misread. Yeah, I can't really tell you HOW to heal each fight, unfortunately. That's still up to you, largely.

Another part of the issue is that our healing strategy can vary a fair bit depending on what class we're healing with in a 10-man. If you're with a Disc Priest, it makes sense for them to do less spot-healing and more shielding/AoE-Divine Aegising (god I am so out of touch with the terminology) while we focus more on tanks and getting low health players back up to the point where our Disc can keep them level again.

On the other hand, if you're with a Shaman (a class that is quite good at spot-healing), the raid-blanketing with EF strategy becomes pretty appealing. Actually, that could kind of swing both ways depending on how effective Chain Heal is with your raid comp. I'm not terribly experienced with 10m's tbh so if someone could back me up on this, it would be dandy :-D
Edited by Tailias on 1/28/2013 12:27 AM PST
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90 Draenei Paladin
10900
Posted by Rasul
I don't think you will find any. The strats and talents that you take will differs depending on raid make up, 2 vs. 3 healings, how good is your dps, the type of tanks that you have, how good is your raid at executing the mechanics of the fights, or what strats you are using on that fight.

Riôt


01/28/2013 12:19 AMPosted by Tailias
but rather you need to get a good grasp of how the different talents function and the situations that they're all useful in, and then work that into the fight/mechanics/comp/strategy.


This is typically how I talent:
Stone Guard- Hand of Purity(for massive bleed on tank), Divine Purpose(for the passive), Holy Prism(because we run melee heavy)

Feng- Hand of Purity(for arcane resonance), Holy Avenger(velocity, epicenter,draw flame), Lights Hammer(stacking fight)

Garajal- Hand of Purity(Voodoo on tank), Holy Avenger(I use it on cd for less stressful voodoo), Lights Hammer(stacking fight)

Spirit Kings- Clemency(bop pinned targets), Divine Purpose(passive), Lights Hammer(maddening shout)

Elegon- Unbreakable Spirit(tons on magic dmg), Holy Avenger(after walls are down), Execution Sentence(on the player taking the 850k by himself)

WoE- Clemency(extra tank sac), Holy Avenger(titan gas), Execution Sentence(for heavy tank dmg)

Imperial- Clemency(for attenuation fails), Holy Avenger(force and verve), Execution Sentence(I run slower than our tank, I put it on him while im dodging rings or he is running to next platform)

Blade Lord- Clemency(Bop windstep target), Divine Purpose(passive), Lights Hammer(unseen strike)

Garalon- Clemency(Bop at crush), Holy Avenger(predictable blanket), Holy Prism(on legs, we run melee heavy)

Wind Lord- Hand of Purity(corrosive resin), Holy Avenger(rain of blades), Holy Prism(because I like the burst for RoB)

Amber Shaper- Hand of Purity(parasitic), Divine Purpose(passive), Holy Prism(living amber burst)

Empress- Hand of Purity(cry of terror), Holy Avenger(sonic discharge), Lights Hammer(stack after sonic discharge)

Protectors- Clemency(extra tank sacs), Divine Purpose(passive), Holy Prism(melee heavy)

Tsulong- Hand of Purity(on tanks after breaths), Holy Avenger(day phase), Holy Prism(to help with adds, though any other will probably be better for your group)

Le shi- Clemency(sacs on tank, salvs during add phase), Holy Avenger(for when she blows you back), Holy Prism(because I like it)

Sha- Clemency/unbreakable(really up to your play style), Divine Purpose(when I don't feel like messing with HA), Holy Prism(for platforms/help with adds/quick burst on tank)
Edited by Ceresc on 1/28/2013 5:20 AM PST
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90 Draenei Paladin
10900
01/28/2013 12:19 AMPosted by Tailias
Well, I'd plug my guide over in the Pally forums but it doesn't go quite as in-depth as you're looking for. (/shamelessplug)


I think you should copy it to the healer forum as well, I'll sticky request for you.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
12465
I find myself using LoD a lot in my 25 man. We run 2 disc priests a resto druid, a mistweaver monk, a resto shaman and an additional paladin. (depending on fight) To me this seems like spot healing would be better for me to do so I forgo eternal flame blankets for direct aoe healing. This means I often end up running sacred shield for several fights. I only switched to healing a few weeks ago though so Im not sure im thinking this through correctly. Does this sound correct or am I way off?
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100 Draenei Shaman
11960


This is typically how I talent:

Garajal- Hand of Purity(Voodoo on tank), Holy Avenger(I use it on cd for less stressful voodoo), Lights Hammer(stacking fight)

Wind Lord- Hand of Purity(corrosive resin), Holy Avenger(rain of blades), Holy Prism(because I like the burst for RoB)

Tsulong- Hand of Purity(on tanks after breaths), Holy Avenger(day phase), Holy Prism(to help with adds, though any other will probably be better for your group)


Just a few observations here, to show that, as Rasul says, one's talents and playstyle may vary a lot between raid groups:

Gara'jal - I don't believe Voodoo Dolls is a periodic damage effect, so I talent Clemency for this, so I can HoSac the tank every time I don't have Voodoo Doll and I can HoProt them when I do. Since the boss fixates, HoProt doesn't cause any threat issues, and while the major source of burst damage is the magic Shadowy Attacks that HoProt can't mitigate, there is quite a bit of constant melee damage on the tank as well, that gets copied over to the other Voodoo Dolls, and HoProt completely stops that.

I also go with Sacred Shield over Eternal Flame here, on the basis that it is 3 (or 4, if you raid 25man) times as strong on this fight as it is on any other, because any damage it stops also prevents damage on the other Voodoo Dolls. Of course, if your tanks are both Protadins, their Sacred Shields will be way, way better, so you can use Eternal Flame on the Voodoo Dolls instead. I'm never in danger of losing anyone in the Spirit Realm, so I talent purely for Voodoo Doll saving.

Wind Lord - I go Clemency and HoProt or HoSac the targets of Kor'thik Strike. This is particularly useful if you do not have enough dispelling to go around, so sometimes the Blademasters will have Quickening up and deal dangerous amounts of damage. I also really like Light's Hammer for this, but it works a lot better in a 25man raid (when there's a melee pile to save) or with a 10man strat that involves people collapsing in for the Rain of Blades and then moving back out to avoid dropping Wind Bombs on the melee.

Tsulong - Execution Sentence all the way. Putting it up during the Sun Breath/The Light of Day deals a truly ridiculous amount of healing for a single GCD. I really like your idea about Hand of Purity, I never thought of that! I'm totally stealing it ;)
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90 Human Paladin
15320
Well, I'd plug my guide over in the Pally forums but it doesn't go quite as in-depth as you're looking for. (/shamelessplug)

What you need isn't a step-by-step that lays out okay, you take X talent for fight 1 and Y talent for fight 2, but rather you need to get a good grasp of how the different talents function and the situations that they're all useful in, and then work that into the fight/mechanics/comp/strategy.

If you're with a Disc Priest, it makes sense for them to do less spot-healing and more shielding/AoE-Divine Aegising (god I am so out of touch with the terminology) while we focus more on tanks and getting low health players back up to the point where our Disc can keep them level again.


I have a pretty good grasp on the talents and spells available. I guess I am looking for a guide that explains what is optimal for each fight. How to curb that extensive raid damage and best get everyone back up to tip top.

Being with disc priest is exactly how you describe it and we communicate well (easier when you're sitting right next to each other :p) so that when he's blanketing the raid with spirit shell I'm not popping one of my major cd's. I have to admit, I'm sad to see that they're nerfing it, but that's for another thread.

Primarily I seem to be struggling with Garalon. It's probably more of a coordination issue than a personal healing issue. I seem to constantly be out of range of the raid. I've seen a few suggestions that indicate it's wise to have the pally healer focus on the kiters and tanks. We tried this and the raid dropped- FAST.

I realize there isn't one set way to heal and down bosses, so I'm not looking for an easy ticket to win, just want to feel like I know more about how to play this class well and feel competent in doing so.
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90 Human Paladin
15320
Garalon- Clemency(Bop at crush), Holy Avenger(predictable blanket), Holy Prism(on legs, we run melee heavy)


What do you mean "predictable blanket" with HA? Are you using HA to throw EF? LoD?
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90 Human Paladin
15320
@ Veroicone:

01/27/2013 10:27 PMPosted by Veroicone
And also, don't use Noxxic :P


Don't worry- I'm not. Came across it while doing some reading.
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90 Human Paladin
15320
@ Tailias

01/28/2013 12:19 AMPosted by Tailias
Well, I'd plug my guide over in the Pally forums but it doesn't go quite as in-depth as you're looking for. (/shamelessplug)


I've seen your guide and it was very helpful when I started raiding with this Pally. =)
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90 Draenei Paladin
10900
Just a few observations here, to show that, as Rasul says, one's talents and playstyle may vary a lot between raid groups:

Gara'jal - I wasn't sure myself with Hand of Purity but I gave it a go to test it out and it worked which made me a happy pally. I chose it simply because 100% reduction of physical dmg for 20s of the fight was far outweighed by the 42s of 70% reduction with the additional 10s of BoP. Also, as we 2 heal the fight, if I'm outside to cast Sac on the tank, then odds are I have VooDoo as well.

I began MoP with SS but once switching to EF I'm really loathe to go back. I do run with a DK and warrior for tanks so SS might be a nice buffer but I like EF because it allows me to have all those HoTs rolling on nearly the whole group if I time it well which is also quite helpful to the other healer when I take totems.

Wind Lord - Kor'thik Strike really isn't an issue for our healers. With so little dmg actually going out during those phases they become a primary snipe target. I like Purity because it allows me to "set it and forget it" a RM from our monk and my purity and we can go back to cc our focus. I mostly choose HP because I'm more comfortable with the burst aspect of it, and the fact that I can use it every 30s. Though LH would work fine in my melee heavy 10m, I like that I can choose to do a single target burst or and AoE burst.

Tsulong - I am actually thinking about giving this a go next time. I was using HP then changed to LH (because I still wanted to help with adds) and I noticed that LH was doing more than twice as much healing as my HP. Next week though I might try out ES again, I haven't used it since our first few pulls.
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100 Draenei Shaman
11960
Do you have a log of an fight where you used Purity on Gara'jal, Ceresc? I believe you, I just would like to see exactly which source of damage it's mitigating, because that sounds awesome, but I just don't understand what is periodic about it :)
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90 Draenei Paladin
13095
01/28/2013 06:58 PMPosted by Dayani
Do you have a log of an fight where you used Purity on Gara'jal, Ceresc? I believe you, I just would like to see exactly which source of damage it's mitigating, because that sounds awesome, but I just don't understand what is periodic about it :)


Yeah, I'm not sure either. I'm not really aware of any DoT's or bleeds on that fight but I may be overlooking something.
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90 Human Paladin
15450
There are no DoT or Bleed effects on Gara'jal. The way Vodoo Doll works is that any damage done on a person with Vodoo Doll buff will be duplicated on the other persons with Vodoo Doll.

Shield will mitigate most of the damage, except for Sweeping Kick, Hammer Fist, Right Cross and Left Hook which will do shadow damage and ignore shield. The funny part is that the Vodoo Doll damage itself can still be shielded.
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100 Draenei Shaman
11960
Yeah, this is why I am confused Rasul, and askin' for logs. I love Hand of Purity (and obviously in 5.2 when they buff it to include a 10% flat damage reduction, it will be a great talent for ... well ... everything), so I am always looking for ways to use it more, it just doesn't make sense to me that it would do anything on Gara'jal. Perhaps there is something weird about how the game classifies Voodoo Doll damage?
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