01/28/2013 10:29 PMPosted by ZapwidgetPeople, and especially paladins, really need to get out of this mindset that avoidance stats are bad. They aren't bad. Even if the stat is not as strong as another option, it's still a solid choice.
I think there are two different claims going on that often get conflated:
1) Avoidance stats are bad, in that they're ineffective ways to make your character better.
I think this is incorrect. All the math I've seen (for paladins anyway) shows that they're a bit worse in terms of reducing spike damage and relatively similar in terms of total damage reduction. It's really unfortunate that people very quickly migrate to a mindset where their top 1-2 stats are "good" and all the other stats are "bad". The reality is that the gap between the two is often (not always, but often) quite small.
2) Avoidance stats are bad, in that they're boring or uninteresting ways to make your character better.
This claim I agree with completely. Mostly because they're totally passive. Waniou remarked in another thread that part of the problem is that unlike crits, there's no positive feedback (when you get a crit, a rather large number pops up on your screen; when you dodge an attack, usually it's either the absence of a number or at best the word "dodge"). I agree with that: dodging and parrying just feels less "fun" than critting, or never missing an attack, or doing everything faster.
Exacerbating this problem is that as Blizzard's discovered, there's just not much room to grow avoidance over the course of an expansion and still have things stay balanced. I'll admit, going from 30% total avoidance to 70% total avoidance over the course of Burning Crusade definitely made my upgrades in gear noticable, and even though dodge/parry were still just as "passive" then it felt like a dramatic improvement. But obviously this had serious balance implications - suddenly bosses like Brutallus had to hit insanely hard, they had to introduce Sunwell Radiance, etc.
This means that in order to be balanced, your avoidance gains from gear tend to be rather small, which means that they tend to be relatively unnoticable. With hit/expertise (something most people can usually trivially cap in the first tier of raiding content, if they care about it) you can go from 0% to 15% or 22.5%, if you like. Going from a 15/22.5% chance to miss to a 0% chance to miss is a pretty big spread. Ditto with stuff like haste (I'm approaching the point where I've sort of got mini-heroism up all the time, and this is only the first tier of raids!). Ditto with mastery (my haste rating would convert to 12%+ of additional SotR mitigation, which is pretty sick).
I'm also not sure that the warrior system ("make avoidance power abilities") is really a solution here. Best case scenario, even if you're a warrior with parry-based Revenge procs, the reality is that the increase in Revenge procs due to your gear is likely undetectable, because you start with enough baseline parry that you won't be able to actually discern "hey, I've got more parry now so I'm getting a lot more procs" from "hey, this boss has a slightly higher attack speed so I'm getting a lot more procs" and "hey, I'm tanking two mobs so I'm getting a lot of procs" and so on. Any impact from your avoidance gear is likely to be a feather on the scales compared to encounter mechanics.
Basically I think avoidance serves one noble purpose: it keeps melee swings from feeling like a metronome. But I don't think avoidance on gear is required to make that happen, and I don't think avoidance on gear really brings anything else to the table. I'd advocate for some reasonable amount of baseline avoidance, retaining anything that gives flat avoidance (e.g. stuff like Savage Defense and Evasion are fine), and not itemizing avoidance on gear anymore. You can have a few trinket procs (which can likely also give a flat amount of avoidance, with this change) and the like, but that's probably it.
I consider this a separate issue from whether there should be tanking stats or not. I can see an argument that having tanking gear be completely different from DPS gear is healthy for the game. I'm just not sure dodge and parry should be the stats to make that happen.