Warrior tank, okay or stay clear?

90 Orc Warrior
9575
Good evening tanks,

I have been doing some research after deciding I want to raid tank as a Warrior, just to see where other Warrior tanks were sitting. After some looking around on raidbots.com and looking through Warrior forums and Tank forums, I was a bit disheartened. First, Warrior tanks are at the low end on almost all raid settings (10-25M N/H) and on top of that, we're getting a defense nerf in 5.2.

I have a Monk tank that I've been toying with as well, but I really like the plate look, and just how long Warriors have been around. I don't want to invest 400k+ gold and hours of time into getting one up to par, only to find out I'm behind the rest and not desired.

TL:DR - Are Warriors tanks losing (and in 5.2 even more so) their raid MT viability when matched with other tanks?
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85 Gnome Death Knight
12110
Warrior tanks are absolutely fine.
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Combat tables, diminishing returns and you!
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2489160859
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100 Pandaren Warrior
16305
Warriors are in the best spot we've been in in a long time.
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90 Human Warrior
3385
We have tons of tools for tanking.

We also have the best mobility by far.
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90 Pandaren Monk
10280
01/30/2013 05:34 AMPosted by Liquidity
We also have the best mobility by far.


"by far" is a stretch :P

Roll on!
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90 Draenei Warrior
10550
Pssh we also have 3 movement abilities.

Charge/Intervene/Heroic Leap.

What do Brewmasters have,

Roll/Roll/Roll

01/30/2013 12:10 AMPosted by Goliath
we're getting a defense nerf in 5.2.


Also no, that's for Arms and Fury. Protection is getting a 10% buff to Unwavering Sentinel to counter-act the 10% flat nerf for non-protection Defensive Stance.
Edited by Sedori on 1/30/2013 6:28 AM PST
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90 Pandaren Monk
10280
What do Brewmasters have,

Roll/Roll/Roll


Clash.

Roll + speed buff

or

3 rolls in a row.

What I like about roll is that it is not tied to any targeted player and there is no targeting eye involved like Heroic Leap.

Personal preference, of course :)
Edited by Chuin on 1/30/2013 7:17 AM PST
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90 Draenei Warrior
10550
Clash is terrible it doesn't even work on non-stunnable things :(
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90 Pandaren Monk
10280
01/30/2013 07:17 AMPosted by Sedori
Clash is terrible it doesn't even work on non-stunnable things :(


That I will give you. But it has its uses.
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90 Draenei Warrior
10550
That I will give you. But it has its uses.


Oh definitely, getting that caster to stop casting and move it to a more desirable position is undoubtly delicious.
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90 Undead Warrior
6455
What Defense Nerf are you talking about? Cause if you're talking about the nerf to Defensive stance, thats only while in fury or Arms. Prot Defensive stance remains the same as far as I know.
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ive raced and panda before,

Warriors win.

Heroic leap, Banner intervene macro, and if i can change something even better.
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90 Blood Elf Warrior
10625
If warrior tanks were that !@#$ty, I wouldn't be this geared on my alt.

They are fine, powerful, most mobile (next to monks) and although our hp lacks, we don't care. We don't absorb hits like druids or pallies, we completely stop it from hitting us. Shield barrier is your friend.
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100 Blood Elf Priest
15250
01/31/2013 11:17 AMPosted by Zertloc
although our hp lacks, we don't care.


Warriors have the lowest stamina modifier, but the highest stance DR modifier. Iirc, if you list tank classes in order by stamina mod or stance mod, the one list is the inverse of the other.
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90 Blood Elf Warrior
10625
01/31/2013 11:25 AMPosted by Nerfheals
although our hp lacks, we don't care.


Warriors have the lowest stamina modifier, but the highest stance DR modifier. Iirc, if you list tank classes in order by stamina mod or stance mod, the one list is the inverse of the other.


When I stated that, I meant by standards of heroic mode fights. HP is a key stat for tanks in progression settings as the bosses hit like trains. (Trucks, trains, atomic bombs, whatever you prefer.)

HP helps us stay alive longer as well, in cases such as Will of the Emperor, where the bosses hit extremely hard. That hp gives healers more time to react.

Although it isn't a stat we should stack by any means, it is still useful for every tanking class.
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90 Night Elf Druid
17755
When I stated that, I meant by standards of heroic mode fights. HP is a key stat for tanks in progression settings as the bosses hit like trains. (Trucks, trains, atomic bombs, whatever you prefer.)


HP and Stance Modifiers offset each other. You are no weaker (or stronger) against a Heroic raid boss that melees a tank with higher health for higher damage than yourself with lower health and lower damage (from all sources), as long as the offsets are the same.

Using it as a "key stat" depends entirely on the stance modifier you already have. A DK considers a different health level to measure himself comfortable against a raid boss' hits than a Feral does, so the Feral looking over at the DK's health is wasting his time.
Edited by Slashlove on 1/31/2013 11:58 AM PST
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90 Blood Elf Warrior
10625
01/31/2013 11:56 AMPosted by Slashlove
When I stated that, I meant by standards of heroic mode fights. HP is a key stat for tanks in progression settings as the bosses hit like trains. (Trucks, trains, atomic bombs, whatever you prefer.)


HP and Stance Modifiers offset each other. You are no weaker (or stronger) against a Heroic raid boss that melees a tank with higher health for higher damage than yourself with lower health and lower damage (from all sources), as long as the offsets are the same.

Using it as a "key stat" depends entirely on the stance modifier you already have. A DK considers a different health level to measure himself comfortable against a raid boss' hits than a Feral does, so the Feral looking over at the DK's health is wasting his time.


You missed my point as well. HP, although not used in mitigation almost whatsoever, does serve the largest role of all the stats we have. Without it, we would die immediately. It doesn't matter right now if our hp is only 550k or as high as 700k. But in a fight similar to Madness, where the tank must soak a hit for say in this new tier, 950k damage, HP is necessary. That is all I'm saying. There are top tanks who put stam over other stats until a certain amount of hp, others do not. It is completely up to the tank.

My recommendation, however, is to get your mitigation stats up a bit. Hit and expertise both are considered priority stats until you have the 7.5% caps of them. It gives you more reliable rage generation, and gives you more powerful attacks to assist with some dps during boss fights. 2.3mil crits from execute on Elegon always help out during that last burn phase. Mastery, of course, is our top stat, as compared to parry and dodge. But of course, even that can be debatable, and an argument I'm not dipping into.

Stam(til comfortable)>hit/exp(7.5%)>mastery>dodge/parry>stam

That's what I'd focus on. It has gotten me as far as I am now with no problems and it should do the same for you.
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90 Night Elf Druid
17755
You missed my point as well. HP, although not used in mitigation almost whatsoever, does serve the largest role of all the stats we have. Without it, we would die immediately. It doesn't matter right now if our hp is only 550k or as high as 700k. But in a fight similar to Madness, where the tank must soak a hit for say in this new tier, 950k damage, HP is necessary.


I didn't miss your point. Your problem is that you don't have a point.

While you are correct in that without the HP to survive a hit/mechanic, we would get oneshot, that doesn't really have anything to do with whether Warriors are fine or not. and it's not relevant to Warriors when the Stamina modifier works hand in hand with the Damage Reduction modifier anyway. The actual value of the Stamina that you do have is the exact same as that of any other tank.

I'd like to take a minute and talk about Unicorns, because I'm sure they affect how good Warriors are or not.

Hit and expertise both are considered priority stats until you have the 7.5% caps of them.


There is no practical alteration in the value of Expertise at 7.5% since you don't have spells, so this makes no sense whatsoever.
Edited by Slashlove on 1/31/2013 12:17 PM PST
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90 Blood Elf Warrior
10625
@Slashlove

I have already stated warrior tanks are plausible, strong, mobile and good tanks. I have given stat priorities for the class/spec even. I'm not arguing with you on any point, nor are you arguing a valid point against me, other than just saying how I'm incorrect. Stamina is what gives you more hp to take more hits without your healer having to worry. That's what my point was in all of my typing, and you seem to have jumped off a nearby cliff screaming "nub is wrong" and consistently reply to something that needs no reply. If you'd like to be more help, offer your own information on why warrior tanks are good. I have stayed on topic in each of my replies in this thread, unlike yourself.
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90 Night Elf Druid
17755
I have already stated warrior tanks are plausible, strong, mobile and good tanks.


While also stating that "our HP lacks", and replying to the guy who responded and told you that the lower Stamina modifier simply offsets a higher damage reduction modifier to give you the same Effective Health by saying that you meant that "in the context of Heroic fights", not that that actually make a difference in the initial context of what you were saying.

I have given stat priorities for the class/spec even.


Your stat priorities treat Expertise with a different value before and after 7.5%. Correcting you by pointing out how Expertise works might enable you to actually understand and evaluate your priorities and prevents someone else from picking up misinformation.
Edited by Slashlove on 1/31/2013 1:27 PM PST
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