A buff for wiping in raid finder

Community Manager
01/30/2013 01:08 PMPosted by Loktronotron
Couldn't you just have someone take one for the team, strip naked, and die over and over to the boss until they get 10 stacks and then people can just super EZ mode clear the boss.


There is a minimum attempt requirement before the system 'credits' you with a wipe. It should always be more time-efficient to not wipe at all, but if it isn't we can tweak the threshold.

01/30/2013 01:12 PMPosted by Monstrous
Raid Finder needs to be even easier?


We don't think LFR is too difficult, but in order to make it the right difficulty for 25 strangers with little-to-no coordination we did have to trivialize some encounters and mechanics. With a system that can correct for variances in groups, encounters don't have to be quite so binary (trivial vs. impossible). Mechanics can be more meaningful, while encouraging players to stay with groups that run into some difficulty, rather than quit and re-queue.
100 Human Rogue
11320
I would like to see the denizens of D&R propose a name for this buff.


"Entitlement"

No raid finder group left behind!
100 Human Rogue
11320
Wait, is this like... a real thing?
100 Draenei Paladin
14235
Is increasing the damage, etc. really the answer to this though? In my experience the few times wipes occur in LFR are because people either don't know about, don't understand, or just flat out ignore the mechanics of the encounter. A buff to the overall raw survivablity and throughput of a raid doesn't mean anything if people keep running under Garalon or fail to stack for Unseen Strike or stand in Defile/Void zones.

Edit: A question mark spawned where a period should have. This has now been fixed.
Edited by Karoc on 1/30/2013 2:12 PM PST
90 Orc Warlock
7195
01/30/2013 01:59 PMPosted by Bashiok
We don't think LFR is too difficult, but in order to make it the right difficulty for 25 strangers with little-to-no coordination we did have to trivialize some encounters and mechanics. With a system that can correct for variances in groups, encounters don't have to be quite so binary (trivial vs. impossible). Mechanics can be more meaningful, while encouraging players to stay with groups that run into some difficulty, rather than quit and re-queue.
Do you not think that this will be basically a buff to people who don't try or don't care in LFR? It just seems as LFR currently stands, there's no reason to not be able to kill a boss, even with some of the raid not trying. If this goes through, what's the incentive for other people to try, when you know that now maybe 2-3 people can carry a bunch of AFK people versus 5-6 as it is now?

Kicking people who aren't caring or sitting AFK for free loot should be the solution, not buffing the raid because people don't care. Why do I want an incentive for someone to stay in my LFR group when they aren't trying at all? I want to kick them and get someone in who will actually try. That should be sufficient. Buffing for wipes is just the wrong idea.
Edited by Loktronotron on 1/30/2013 2:15 PM PST
90 Dwarf Shaman
17655
This game is getting stupid now.

Can we just stop supporting AFKING for full epics? This IS actually a slippery slope argument I made over a year ago, it's getting ridiculous how many "LOL I bet they make it so that you can afk for loot" and "hah, It'd be funny if wiping buffed you".... You know, it's gonna be mailed epics soon.

You need to start taking steps to make LFR fun, not make it even more of a job, we're now going to have half our raid suiciding on the pull because "YOU NEED 10% TO KILL THIS", Yes, the same people yelling to kill Green on Yorsahj and saying "AOE MAKES THE BOSS HIT HARDER" on madness.

Ignorance in LFR is like a phenomenon with how fast stupid strats spread, things that will even actively hurt the groups.

I'm all for removing coordination checks, but lowering DPS checks to BELOW some of the Wrath normal enrage checks? hah, the player base is improving, 5% a wipe.

Do you have any idea how pissed off your better players are going to be when ignorant players wipe a group 10 times to stack the buff? You're going to be seeing people ragequit wow over YET ANOTHER silly little schism you've created in the community.
Edited by Entitlement on 1/30/2013 2:23 PM PST
90 Orc Warlock
7195
01/30/2013 02:16 PMPosted by Entitlement
This game is getting stupid now.
This game got stupid a while ago. Making people do chores due to valor cap requirements instead of enjoying the game and pandering to every whine and complaint that people who are simply unskilled at the game killed the game in a way that will be hard, if not impossible to come back from.
90 Dwarf Shaman
17655
Blue posts are looking more like trolls than the trolls did in Vanilla -> Wrath.
Did cata screw this up this much?

01/30/2013 01:59 PMPosted by Bashiok
(trivial vs. impossible)


Well, you had Garalon

It was a fun and killable encounter, it required 1-2 players to be somewhat intelligent, You nerfed it, and it required ????? and became trivial,

You have encounters like Sha of fear, that feels impossible to die on, I have 1 grand total wipe in LFR sha, and it was because a tank was griefing the group.

Fights that are in the sweet spot, were Will week 1, Ambershaper pre nerf, and... That's about it.

The rest of the encounters, are trivial and wipes come purely from griefing, you need to find a medium to which you wipe from failing, not from griefing, and it's incredibly hard to find that line with the direction you've molded the community. This is 1 more step to window licking getting into the olympics.
Edited by Entitlement on 1/30/2013 2:28 PM PST
90 Blood Elf Priest
12205
01/30/2013 01:06 PMPosted by Positivity
I never realized how much f can look like t.


Lmao thank god it wasn't just me!
3 Pandaren Warrior
0
I would like to see the denizens of D&R propose a name for this buff.


Might of the wheelchair.
90 Orc Warlock
7195
01/30/2013 02:16 PMPosted by Entitlement
Do you have any idea how pissed off your better players are going to be when ignorant players wipe a group 10 times to stack the buff? You're going to be seeing people ragequit wow over YET ANOTHER silly little schism you've created in the community.
Seems like they continue to pander to the lowest skill players or players with poor attitudes to try to get them more interested, but tend to not think about the more dedicated, skilled, or helpful players who will be hurt by these things. The thought process HAS to be that "oh the good players will keep playing no matter what we do, because they play it and are good at it and enjoy it." Not sure how they don't see the population declining, not just of players in general but of quality players because the game is becoming a grind and a joke for some just to make it easily accessible to others.
100 Tauren Shaman
13845
People slack off enough in LFR as it is. C'mon, LFR isn't hard.
90 Blood Elf Priest
12205
Just musing here... wondering if it would make sense to not grant the buff until the boss has been brought to such-and-such percentage. That would encourage people from not leaving immediately after one or two wipes that occur well into an encounter.

D'you think people would be less likely to abuse the buff that way?

Was that what the blue post was hinting at?
90 Dwarf Shaman
17655
I would like to see the denizens of D&R propose a name for this buff.


Entitlement
90 Dwarf Shaman
17655
01/30/2013 02:29 PMPosted by Loktronotron
Seems like they continue to pander to the lowest skill players or players with poor attitudes to try to get them more interested, but tend to not think about the more dedicated, skilled, or helpful players who will be hurt by these things. The thought process HAS to be that "oh the good players will keep playing no matter what we do, because they play it and are good at it and enjoy it." Not sure how they don't see the population declining, not just of players in general but of quality players because the game is becoming a grind and a joke for some just to make it easily accessible to others.


I'm not chicken littling, I've just seen a dozen friends quit because of the games direction since DS, Im not using this as anything, besides my personal thoughts on whats hurting the game, no real statistics to use this for.
90 Orc Warlock
7195
01/30/2013 02:33 PMPosted by Entitlement
I'm not chicken littling, I've just seen a dozen friends quit because of the games direction since DS, Im not using this as anything, besides my personal thoughts on whats hurting the game, no real statistics to use this for.
I'm not saying you are. I am agreeing with you. Seems like, with the effort to make things more accessible to people, they're starting (or started a bit ago) to forget what made the game great. You will have people complain no matter how easy or hard you make something, but making gear actually mean something is what kept people trying for more. Now I can go AFK on Sha CRZ groups every week and get 3+ purples including 2 set. Makes sense...
1 Pandaren Mage
0
lol, I got quoted!
90 Orc Warlock
7195
01/30/2013 02:39 PMPosted by Monstrous
lol, I got quoted!
Yeah I feel special now.
100 Undead Priest
22985
Why can't we use lfr to individually train people to learn mechanics with out wiping the raid. Ie letting wind bombs one-shot the person that stands in it vs the whole raid. Let attenuation kill people. Then make it where 7-8 people could potentially clear the boss. And give some kind of like 50g bonus for living though the fight. Add nerfing the instance as you progressively wipe, and I think it would work out pretty well.
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