A buff for wiping in raid finder

90 Dwarf Hunter
8925

I mean, I get what you are saying, but this does nothing to break LFR. LFR is, and always has been, easy mode. All this does is make the adventures through LFR more enjoyable.


Not for me it doesn't. I'm only in queues because I don't have the time to dedicate to all the BS that comes with needing a guild or competent pugs for normals and heroics.

I want a challenge, not a pushover.
No challenge no incentive no feeling like you've accomplished something difficult because youve overcome the obstacle set in front of you

Whats the point of going to LFR if you play for the challenge of the game if what motivates you is not the shiny gear or what your toon looks like but actually playing the game and challenging yourself against a difficult encounter

Where's the pride in feeling like you did it you improved you got good enough to make it, thats gone with this system even if your not good enough youll get the kill eventually anyway its given to you now you dont work to get better you wait so it gets easier.

In normals adding a buff like icc did or DS provided guilds with the chance to get over road blocks they may be hitting to give them a chance to progress into harder challenges when all that was stopping them was a single boss or dps check this happened not at the start of a patch but rolled out slowly so most guilds could be at the same general progression when the new tier hits.

By adding the system into the easiest mode of raiding and adding it at the start of the patch it does the opposite, anyone who goes into lfr kills the bosses and thinks they can maybe try the next level up a normal raid will be blocked at the first boss, they havent needed to get better gear because of dps blocks they havent needed to adjust thier stats or strats to overcome problems they stay the same level eventually that level is good enough anyway, they wont improve theres no motivation to do so.

They go into normals they still wont be able to down the bosses because now they are asked to improve to beat the boss not wait till the boss can be downed in their current gear, now they need to learn progression they need to learn what raidings all about, overcoming the challenges through skill through learning and effort not by sitting back and waiting not by doing the same thing that didnt work over and over till it does. thats what lfr will be, bad strat dont worry even if that strat is no good and ignores the encounter mechanics completely it wont matter soon the boss will die due to being so weak compared to us anyway we get upgrades for wiping now.

Thats not challenging at all, if i need more dps to get past Garalon in normal then i need to get the drops change my rotation work out how to squeeze that extra deeps out. I have to work at it to beat the challenge set infront of me.

The fights get easier as our item level goes up we get stronger but to get our item level up takes work, we study what we need we go after those drops, we find how to improve to overcome the challenge, be that a better strat or just better gear. We work out what needs to be done to solve the challenge and we try to do it.

This system means you never have to overcome the challenge, dont have the deeps wait a wipe or two, dont have the strat wait a wipe or two, its like giving us the drops from the next tier so we are so powerfull the bosses are a joke, you dont earn this power its not a prize like it is in normal raiding for beating a challenge its a give to me for failing to beat a challenge.

Its counter -intuitive to do this and will lower the level of skill in the game across the board you no longer need even the slightest ability to be able to learn or adapt because the game will adapt instead we dont need to get better anymore the game gets easier we dont fight for the prize we give up and the prize is offered anyway.
90 Orc Warlock
7195
01/30/2013 06:50 PMPosted by Nexumus
That's not always a bad business decision. See Wal-Mart, McDonald's, and imho, Apple.
See WoW.
90 Draenei Hunter
12185
01/30/2013 01:59 PMPosted by Bashiok
Couldn't you just have someone take one for the team, strip naked, and die over and over to the boss until they get 10 stacks and then people can just super EZ mode clear the boss.


There is a minimum attempt requirement before the system 'credits' you with a wipe. It should always be more time-efficient to not wipe at all, but if it isn't we can tweak the threshold.

Raid Finder needs to be even easier?


We don't think LFR is too difficult, but in order to make it the right difficulty for 25 strangers with little-to-no coordination we did have to trivialize some encounters and mechanics. With a system that can correct for variances in groups, encounters don't have to be quite so binary (trivial vs. impossible). Mechanics can be more meaningful, while encouraging players to stay with groups that run into some difficulty, rather than quit and re-queue.


This sounds more like No Raid Left Behind (NRLB). Gotcha!
90 Undead Rogue
8810
Thank the flying spaghetti monster I quit this game again.

It should be an achievement really "Could stay subbed for one month after purchasing the expansion in spite of the sheer disgust at what this game has descended to".

WoW, at this point, is like a tired old !@#$% who's glory days are long past. Willing to do anything, sacrifice any pride or dignity to keep the customers paying.

I don't doubt at some point you'll just have a "Mr Toads Wild Ride" through a raid and get presented a gift bag full of purples for your 'effort'...
90 Tauren Warrior
10715
Why does Blizzard think this is a good idea? I cannot recall one wipe other than on Garalon release day. If you are in LFR and the group wipes then kick the bad players and move on. If the group wipes so much that you get the buff to stack to 10 then you need to stop playing WoW period.

LFR is beyond faceroll. You can clear the whole thing with 15 people. No that is not an exageration; it is fact. I have killed Elegon with 9 people falling on the first platform drop. I have killed Garalon with 7 people locked out AND several players causing him to slam.

Blizzard, all you are doing by adding this buff is allowing people to try even less than they are now and believe me, no one tries in LFR anymore.

Instead of giving players a buff for being terrible give them a reason to be good.
90 Worgen Druid
14030
GG blizzard forum code
Edited by Autumni on 1/30/2013 8:29 PM PST
90 Human Death Knight
13165
I almost want to refer to those who need this buff as pornstars because apparently to blizzard if you suck long enough you get paid.

At this point blizzard is actively pushing a culture where its better to keep being terrible until you are given rewards than to rise above. I most likely won't be 16/16H this patch, but I will keep trying. If blizzard just gave me 16/16H i wouldn't care anymore.
90 Human Death Knight
12455
01/30/2013 01:59 PMPosted by Bashiok
There is a minimum attempt requirement before the system 'credits' you with a wipe. It should always be more time-efficient to not wipe at all, but if it isn't we can tweak the threshold.

Thanks Bashiok. That makes more sense - it would definitely suck to 'incentivize' wiping.

This doesn't really bother me. It sort of blows my mind that this is a problem, but w/e. If people are really wiping that much in LFR, so be it.
90 Worgen Druid
14030
Not for me it doesn't. I'm only in queues because I don't have the time to dedicate to all the BS that comes with needing a guild or competent pugs for normals and heroics.

I want a challenge, not a pushover.


It sounds like you want a solo challenge. Maybe WoW is not the game for you (other than brawler's guild).

LFR is a group challenge, all that "BS" you dismiss is part of the group challenge.
90 Human Mage
9490
01/30/2013 08:35 PMPosted by Waste
There is a minimum attempt requirement before the system 'credits' you with a wipe. It should always be more time-efficient to not wipe at all, but if it isn't we can tweak the threshold.

Thanks Bashiok. That makes more sense - it would definitely suck to 'incentivize' wiping.

This doesn't really bother me. It sort of blows my mind that this is a problem, but w/e. If people are really wiping that much in LFR, so be it.


It is not that the current wiping in LFR is a problem it is that Blizzard wants to be able to make LFR harder yet not have groups never beat certain bosses.
90 Dwarf Death Knight
16855
01/30/2013 08:35 PMPosted by Autumni
It sounds like you want a solo challenge. Maybe WoW is not the game for you (other than brawler's guild).


When someone says this, they usually get called an elitist.

But you're kind of the opposite, you're a badualist?
90 Human Paladin
12490
01/30/2013 08:24 PMPosted by Worgenbane
Why does Blizzard think this is a good idea? I cannot recall one wipe other than on Garalon release day.


Probably because they want T15 LFR encounters to be tuned harder than they had to accept for T14 LFR. Presumably it will also give them data on how much they have to tune down encounters to get acceptable rates of clearance.

It's not clear why Blizzard should care how undertuned LFR might end up, though. LFR heroes aren't playing the game for challenge.
90 Human Mage
9490
It's not clear why Blizzard should care how undertuned LFR might end up, though. LFR heroes aren't playing the game for challenge.


I would like a challenge actually.

I do LFR because I don't want to schedule my life around a video game which doing normals and Heroics requires.
Not for me it doesn't. I'm only in queues because I don't have the time to dedicate to all the BS that comes with needing a guild or competent pugs for normals and heroics.

I want a challenge, not a pushover.

It sounds like you want a solo challenge. Maybe WoW is not the game for you (other than brawler's guild).

LFR is a group challenge, all that "BS" you dismiss is part of the group challenge.


How can you tell this player they want a solo challenge they never said that , they did say they cant for whatever reason spend the time or effort to get into formal raiding, thats cool thats what LFR is for people just like them who dont have the ability to run normals

That doesnt mean they shouldn't play wow, that doesn't mean they don't want to see end game or compete within a group situation to beat an encounter. just that they cant do that in normals its not fun for them LFR is.

Wanting to do LFR because your not raiding with a guild and cant get a pug group doesnt mean your a loner who shouldn't be playing an mmo.
They clearly like wow its a game if they enjoy it there in right place regardless of how they play regardless of how you think they should play

LFR is how they like to do group challenges and this takes the challenge away whats wrong with them saying they dont like that whats wrong with them saying this will make the game less fun for them?
Your not a real player and they just a person on the wrong game because you raid in a formal way and they cant spend that same time
LFR is a legitimate way to enjoy the game if thats your bag, so is pet battles so is brawlers guild, if you play the game and enjoy it your playing the right way even if you dont raid.
90 Tauren Warrior
10715
01/30/2013 08:39 PMPosted by Osmeric
Why does Blizzard think this is a good idea? I cannot recall one wipe other than on Garalon release day.


Probably because they want T15 LFR encounters to be tuned harder than they had to accept for T14 LFR.


People can't even interrupt/dispel/read in current LFR. Blizzard gives players no reason to do the encounters properly so why the hell do they think making LFR harder is a good idea? Die to a mechanic and you still get loot so why bother. Fall through the floor on Elegon and the rest of the group carries you, you still get loot so why bother. Instead of making LFR 'harder' first they should make the players feel rewarded for doing the encounters properly.

You can stand outside the bubble in Force and Verve without dying. You can just stand still with Attenuation and get hit by each one and be fine. You can make Garalon slam over and over and still beat him.

Make the encounters harder is fine because players will need to actually pay attention in order to beat it. But giving a buff for wiping means that the bad players will just continue ignoring the mechanics and wipe the group til they have ten stacks and everyone can just stand in everything and beat it like they can now. It makes no sense.

Why make it harder so players have to adapt and play right if you will just get a buff that litterally counters the increase in difficulty? Answer me that Blizzard.
90 Human Mage
9490
01/30/2013 01:59 PMPosted by Bashiok
With a system that can correct for variances in groups, encounters don't have to be quite so binary (trivial vs. impossible). Mechanics can be more meaningful, while encouraging players to stay with groups that run into some difficulty, rather than quit and re-queue.


I like how 90% of the posts in this thread seem to completely ignore this part of Bashiok's post.
58 Tauren Death Knight
0
If I understand the blue post right, they plan on making LFR mechanics less trivial while still providing enough fall back so groups don't feel too encumbered from wiping a bunch.
90 Tauren Warrior
10715
01/30/2013 09:00 PMPosted by Astriel
With a system that can correct for variances in groups, encounters don't have to be quite so binary (trivial vs. impossible). Mechanics can be more meaningful, while encouraging players to stay with groups that run into some difficulty, rather than quit and re-queue.


I like how 90% of the posts in this thread seem to completely ignore this part of Bashiok's post.


It is ignored because more groups simply kick the players that cause the 'difficulty' rather than leaving and waiting in queue for another half hour.
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