Possible Hand of Sacrifice buff for Ret

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90 Blood Elf Paladin
6645
Capnflags -

I actually posted some ideas in that thread.
i don't mean outshine in a way suggesting we out damage a dk or lock down/smoke bomb better than a rogue but we do need something unique that will add enough flavor so you might actually see people spamming 'LF decent ret rbg'.
90 Blood Elf Paladin
6645
Hafleur,
I totally agree with the arena statement tho I think our numbers still need some tweaking to really make us more viable..
For rbgs tho..
While I understand the idea of two hybrids pushing offense and putting 3 healers on D..
As far as my experience, although a hell of a lot lower than yours.. From 1700-2100 mmr, majority of CTF maps I have played tend to be two 10man teams sitting just off center of the middle of map waiting for 3 stacks before pushing the enemy fc..
Unless extremely confident in the ability of your 6 dps or a large sum of stacks, I kinda fail to see how your strat would work..
Unless if maybe the enemy was caught on a split Rez but that seems very situational to me.
Would love to hear more detail in your thinking..
Perhaps more of an explanation?

That's true that teams often stay as one group waiting for the debuff to stack, but once it gets high enough they split into two groups, offense and defense. You can't have your FC sit in middle forever.

You've had a different experience in CTF? I played 2.6k RBG's in S9 and S10, but I'll grant you that I only recently started playing 'em again.


No, very similar tho defensive team usually only consists of an FC and 1 heals (usually hpally) falling back for cap as everyone else pushes enemy fc. Every now and again perhaps a second healer falling back if stacks are decently high, i can see how then that a shadow and ret could come in handy.
I think for arena its a great buff which im thrilled about..
For rbgs tho.. i dont think it even scratches the surface of what we need but hopefully by the sounds of it we are atleast on bliz's radar in a positive way..
90 Blood Elf Paladin
9115
01/30/2013 11:22 PMPosted by Daemonism
No, very similar tho defensive team usually only consists of an FC and 1 heals (usually hpally) falling back for cap as everyone else pushes enemy fc. Every now and again perhaps a second healer falling back if stacks are decently high, i can see how then that a shadow and ret could come in handy.

I think it depends on the flow of the game. Sometimes you get a leg up and can bum rush, forcing their entire team on defense. Other times, when the stacks get high enough, the game breaks off into more balanced groups.

If you mean both teams are supposed to rush with eight players and leave only two on defense, I don't think that's the proper way to play.

For rbgs tho.. i dont think it even scratches the surface of what we need but hopefully by the sounds of it we are atleast on bliz's radar in a positive way..

I think to truly turn the heads of RBG groups, HoSac might need to remove all CC including physical. It'd kinda be like bringing back a hybrid of WotLK Cleanse and Freedom stun-break, except this would be on a much longer cooldown.
90 Human Paladin
0
This would be a cool idea if Holy couldn't already do this exact thing every 8 seconds.

Here's hoping that Ghostcrawler sees the flaw in trying to make ret a distinct choice from holy by giving ret a 1 minute cooldown of what holy has on cleanse.
90 Blood Elf Paladin
6645


I think to truly turn the heads of RBG groups, HoSac might need to remove all CC including physical. It'd kinda be like bringing back a hybrid of WotLK Cleanse and Freedom stun-break, except this would be on a much longer cooldown.

Something like that would be interesting and definitely useful to teams. It would absolutely have to be ret-only though, maybe with a 2min cooldown like Sac and Salv. Ahh if we could change Salv to something like that, the name would be fitting!


yea hat would certainly help..
i like the idea.

(btw haf, its never that generic but quite often when 1 team decides to push in my experience, it turns into a 8 offensive vs and 10man defensive, if the offensive succeeds then its an easy cap.. if not then fc and heals head for GY and pray they can either duel push or defeat the offensive team and push..) anyway we got way off topic.. hah i was only originally trying to see, other than being very very situational in rbgs, how would a shadow and ret replace 1 or 2 healers in an offensive push.. =P
love the chat tho =P
Edited by Daemonism on 1/31/2013 12:40 AM PST
1 Draenei Priest
0
Errrr.... how is giving us cleanse with a longer cooldown going to help us have distinct utility from holy?
90 Blood Elf Paladin
6645
01/31/2013 01:01 AMPosted by Klarana
Errrr.... how is giving us cleanse with a longer cooldown going to help us have distinct utility from holy?


cleanse for holy already dispels a magic affect.
so yea its nothing new, different or unique other than being tied to a different ability.
90 Blood Elf Paladin
9115
Something like that would be interesting and definitely useful to teams. It would absolutely have to be ret-only though, maybe with a 2min cooldown like Sac and Salv. Ahh if we could change Salv to something like that, the name would be fitting!

meant Ret HoSac would not only dispel magic effects, but also physical. agree that Salv is a more fitting name, but not sure it'd be the more fitting spell
90 Blood Elf Paladin
9115
01/31/2013 12:39 AMPosted by Daemonism
love the chat tho =P

( ^.^ )
1 Draenei Priest
0
While I appreciate the change, I dislike that the effect is tied to Hand of Sacrifice... or any hand spell for that matter. All it does is further cement Clemency as mandatory for Retribution PVP.
1 Draenei Priest
0
Core thing is, I think both Holy and Retribution PVP players are forced to take Clemency by dint of it providing a massive increase to the rate we can use our group utility (and there for the heart of our pvp power). It simply is what makes or breaks how useful a paladin is in PVP, especially Ret.

It'd be nice to see it become baseline due to how widely taken it already is.
90 Human Paladin
12800


Shut up Lobster, you're terrible.
Stop calling others bad, rets aren't any where near the best melee for RBGs.

He said RAID leaders don't have a good enough reason to bring ret, not RBG leaders.
Rets in RBGs is a completely different thing.

There is no need to be upset, my Solvexxy lady.


You're an idiot.
Look at the rest of the post as well as the link they posted.
It was an RBG related post.

No need to be sad.
90 Blood Elf Paladin
9115
01/31/2013 01:58 AMPosted by Klarana
While I appreciate the change, I dislike that the effect is tied to Hand of Sacrifice... or any hand spell for that matter. All it does is further cement Clemency as mandatory for Retribution PVP.

unbreakable spirit needs to also reduce the cooldown of freedom and sacrifice. that's the only way for it to compete with clemency at this point. as for hand of purity, it probably now needs a secondary effect for ret -- totally brainstorming, maybe something like reduces the duration of CC by 20% (at least that doesn't will rarely affect pve)

if purity doesnt have a secondary affect for ret, then an already situational talent might not even be the right choice in the situations it's designed for. for example, against WLD with an aff 'lock, wouldn't you rather have clemency? two fear breaks via HoSac, two hand of protections to deal with the warrior, two freedoms because freedoms is awesome...

so yea, buff unbreakable spirit for all paladins and give ret a secondary affect for hand of purity
6 Blood Elf Paladin
0
Doesn't cleanse for holy already dispel magic effects, so what exactly does this change for Ret
90 Draenei Paladin
11320
He said RAID leaders don't have a good enough reason to bring ret, not RBG leaders.
Rets in RBGs is a completely different thing.


Your right. I apologize. I did say raid leader. When you make an RBG group you are in a raid , and the person in charge is generally still called the raid leader. For the purpose of posting in the forums though, I should have been more specific. I do mean RBG leaders.

To avoid any more unneeded conversation on the subject I acknowledge that another acceptable title for this person is Strat caller or SC. Not to be confused with Target Caller or TC.

Daemonism- We are def on the same page. Ireally hope blizzard is paying attention to my thread. There are some great fixes there.
Edited by Capnflags on 1/31/2013 6:30 AM PST
90 Human Paladin
7320
is nobody actually seeing how awesome of a buff this is
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