Reason why Retribution Paladins fall short

90 Human Paladin
8425
First off blizzard, Thanks for ruining The Retribution Spec by gimping what we barely had.
Here, let me explain this in more detail; Retributions have been known for being a hybrid class since the birth of dawn...Just kidding... till now. *cough* *cough* *Mists of Pandaria* seemed to have been the finisher of the ret spec. I don't know who develops ret paladins in your foundation but i can clearly establish that taking the only CC that seperated Ret from prot / Holy Crowd Control and allowing it to be choosable with a cast time for all 3 specs in our talent tree was pathetic.

Secondly, is there a reason that you are allowing Holy paladins, the healing designated spec of the class have much more utility CC wise over Rets, the designated dps class? if so, then you might want to look up how to balance a healing / dps class. The fact that rets now have to rely on a 30 second improved hammer of justice as our only main source of CC, mean while other classes have a match-able CC with the same length of duration, except only on a 75% improved cooldown.

Third, I strongly disagree that removing the ability for rets to freedom themselves out of stuns should have been removed. This change literally made rets the rank1 easiest trainable class inside pvp environments, now people can disagree all they want, but clearly this was a mistake not really revised and tested in higher quality games, obviuosly. Ladders is the only source of proof, yet not strong enough to send out a message such as "why aren't their that many high rated rets?" Here i'll tell you why.

Why aren't there that many high rated rets? Simple. You removed everything that we once had, Ret spec freedoms being able to remove stuns was a very good utility, stronger than offhealing for our healers when anybody were in trouble. Putting divine storm on a holy power requirement rather than leaving it as it was in wotlk with the chance to increase it's damage done with holy power was also something not quite reviewed, ofcourse not, what is to be expected. Nerfing WoG's offhealing done to partners also ruined the support and utility we could once give. Keep nerfing rets, it's obviously working as intended, I mean their is literally no difference between a holy paladin and a ret, holy has much more available CC + the chance to completely remove the crit chance on their enemies by 100% with no CD as a HEALER...

Now, why in the world should a healer have this ability over the dps designated spec. Quite pointless if you ask me. The fact that a healer can give you -100% crit chance for the next 4-5 seconds is really silly from a healer point of view.

What you have done here with rets is, nothing but a complete purge. Everything we once had, you have allowed other specs to now receive, completely eliminating our use in arenas + rbgs.

Well now the difference between healing and dps has been said, lets say some things that every ret can clearly agree on.

1) Divine purpose served as a humongous ability that increased our sustained damage and ability to offheal when needed. The simple fact you guys are making us pick between that and what we also once had, "Zealotry" which has now been redesigned to "holy avenger" officially destroyed our damage.

Now a couple weeks ago i seen the post somebody asked on ghostcrawlers twitter about why rets didn't have it as passive anymore. His answer was: "because in pve, divine purpose procs distract the dps rotation for rets." Now, not only does this harm us in sustaining damage a bit more in pvp, but it surely destroys the fact that we have to try and gather up 3 holy power physically when being trained by classes with the lack of sufficient CD timers in between their CCs. for example Warriors; you guys made this class easy to pick up, and train anything within 4 inches of their viewing distance trainable. Giving warriors the ability to AoE-cone stun with shockwave for a duration of 4 seconds long on a 20 second cd is nowhere near balanced at all for any class in pvp. It may be in pve, but certaintly not for pvp, which you guys should really work on doing better. Practice making the use of abilities change depending on pve / pvp environments.

Another good example; Shadowpriests have a fear on demand whenever, including that of which is provided by the same kind of source as a bot. This is Psyfiend. This ability spams Fear-CC and serves as the same purpose as a bot, a mechanic you guys surely don't approve of, correct? When a human has no control over certain actions, is it considered a bot. goodjob at implementing a bot at anybodies use that has this class.

Locks: Alright their dots have always been fine, till MOP. You guys took what was once known as a caster class, and converted somehow into a class that hardly has to cast at all now. Locks were able to cast... oh wait, locks don't cast anymore. They could Click on Chaos Wave, and expect 2/3 - one shot kills in arenas due to the insane amount of damage this ability did, which then got fixed after players got their 2200+ achievements.
shortly after fixing that, everybody rolled destruction. I wonder why? Well the answer is simple, Cast chaos bolt and watch it hit for over 150k+ gauranteed crit. this ability alone, crushes anything. try picturing a ret with insane lack of defensives getting hit by a 120k chaos bolt with 65% resilience and divine protection (40% magical defense) + aura mastery (20% magical defense). Just the fact that chaos bolt can hit for 120k-150k per cast through 125%+ damage reduction is terrible calculations, please use a ti-83 or a ti-84 next time an ability is being redesigned.

The fact of this post is so that you guys can realize how bad rets are in pvp environments. After the nerfs on pvp power towards hybrid classes, and the nerfs to wogs, rets no longer stand a chance as of now in pvp, until next patch. Which makes every ret useless because anything and anyone can kill a ret, simply train him down and rely on a kill because our defensives + self healing are the worst in this game. every plate dps class has a way to avoid a certain percentage of damage by putting up defensive stance or blood presence, but clearly leaving rets without any of that was a good option.

With other classes being able to simply auto-attack you and do more sustained damage / pressure than you, clearly pve shouldn't be the case of why divine purpose isn't given to use passively. It boils down to the fact that ret is completely useless in pvp without the help of the things we once were given. Can't wait till next expansion, maybe we'll be wearing robes getting 2 shotted forsure, rather than 3 shotted.
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90 Human Paladin
8425
idk where all the class hot fixes went, but i guess they fell down with the lich king. Some classes have way too much, and others don't have anything. In the end, newly skilled players have been able to burst down other skilled players based on the outrageous damage they can put out without even thinking.
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100 Human Paladin
9580
Post in in damage dealing forums, Blizzard has openly stated that they do not read the paladin class forums.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
5250
Your my hero
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100 Human Paladin
13730
tl;dr version please. Although I'm sure it's going to be something that's been stated and restated about 400 times in the past few weeks.

01/31/2013 06:26 PMPosted by Mystry
Post in in damage dealing forums, Blizzard has openly stated that they do not read the paladin class forums.


^This, pretty much. Class forums are no longer read, so unless you plan on posting it in the DD forums, you're effectively just posting to whine, rather than to get anything changed or "fixed" as you would put it.
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90 Human Paladin
9970
What are you two even bickering about?? "Go post this in more forums" isn't an attack.

And seriously, although I'm not totally behind everything in the OP, this is the kind of discussion that would be really great to have, so go post this in more forums.
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100 Draenei Paladin
17330
01/31/2013 07:53 PMPosted by Invincible
The only person whining and trolling is you.


Sweet irony.

01/31/2013 07:53 PMPosted by Invincible
They'll probably look here for ideas


Considering he's said repeatedly that he doesn't read the Class Forums and that they'd have to slog through endless, useless QQ to find anything constructive no they probably will not.
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90 Human Paladin
5955
Couldnt of said it any better OP.

What I dont get is how locks have a bubble type mechanic which is better than our own bubble ffs AND they are a ranged class AND they have fear.

My paladin is getting smoked by warriors and locks in worse gear. This is not right. Give ret pallies a 10% bonus to resil or something.

3 main issues with ret.

1) Overall survival in pvp
2) Sustained damage outside of our burst
3) pvp utility to bring someting unique to the group
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
10675
WTB BLIZZARD TO DOOO SOMTHINGGGG
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90 Human Paladin
7020
From my very little experience PvPing on my paladin, I've gathered a few things.

I am sure it changes as I get gear, but sustained damage sucks.

I like everything else. It'd be op, but if they made Holy Avenger passive, it'd probably fix sustained. I just currently don't like relying on RNG and Holy Avenger just adds another CD to rely on to even consider being affective.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
6085
I agree with this totally!! They completely gutted our spec. and made us choose between things that we pretty much had anyway.

anyone notice that almost all the talent choices that we have to choose were things that ret "HAD" from the start. (except the level 90 talents) they are the only new talents we have.

they gave other classes new spells while just taking from ret. It essentially buffed holy and nerfed us to the ground.
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90 Human Paladin
9675
First off blizzard, Thanks for ruining The Retribution Spec by gimping what we barely had.
Here, let me explain this in more detail; Retributions have been known for being a hybrid class since the birth of dawn...Just kidding... till now. *cough* *cough* *Mists of Pandaria* seemed to have been the finisher of the ret spec. I don't know who develops ret paladins in your foundation but i can clearly establish that taking the only CC that seperated Ret from prot / Holy Crowd Control and allowing it to be choosable with a cast time for all 3 specs in our talent tree was pathetic.

Secondly, is there a reason that you are allowing Holy paladins, the healing designated spec of the class have much more utility CC wise over Rets, the designated dps class? if so, then you might want to look up how to balance a healing / dps class. The fact that rets now have to rely on a 30 second improved hammer of justice as our only main source of CC, mean while other classes have a match-able CC with the same length of duration, except only on a 75% improved cooldown.

Third, I strongly disagree that removing the ability for rets to freedom themselves out of stuns should have been removed. This change literally made rets the rank1 easiest trainable class inside pvp environments, now people can disagree all they want, but clearly this was a mistake not really revised and tested in higher quality games, obviuosly. Ladders is the only source of proof, yet not strong enough to send out a message such as "why aren't their that many high rated rets?" Here i'll tell you why.

Why aren't there that many high rated rets? Simple. You removed everything that we once had, Ret spec freedoms being able to remove stuns was a very good utility, stronger than offhealing for our healers when anybody were in trouble. Putting divine storm on a holy power requirement rather than leaving it as it was in wotlk with the chance to increase it's damage done with holy power was also something not quite reviewed, ofcourse not, what is to be expected. Nerfing WoG's offhealing done to partners also ruined the support and utility we could once give. Keep nerfing rets, it's obviously working as intended, I mean their is literally no difference between a holy paladin and a ret, holy has much more available CC + the chance to completely remove the crit chance on their enemies by 100% with no CD as a HEALER...

Now, why in the world should a healer have this ability over the dps designated spec. Quite pointless if you ask me. The fact that a healer can give you -100% crit chance for the next 4-5 seconds is really silly from a healer point of view.

What you have done here with rets is, nothing but a complete purge. Everything we once had, you have allowed other specs to now receive, completely eliminating our use in arenas + rbgs.

Well now the difference between healing and dps has been said, lets say some things that every ret can clearly agree on.

1) Divine purpose served as a humongous ability that increased our sustained damage and ability to offheal when needed. The simple fact you guys are making us pick between that and what we also once had, "Zealotry" which has now been redesigned to "holy avenger" officially destroyed our damage.

Now a couple weeks ago i seen the post somebody asked on ghostcrawlers twitter about why rets didn't have it as passive anymore. His answer was: "because in pve, divine purpose procs distract the dps rotation for rets." Now, not only does this harm us in sustaining damage a bit more in pvp, but it surely destroys the fact that we have to try and gather up 3 holy power physically when being trained by classes with the lack of sufficient CD timers in between their CCs. for example Warriors; you guys made this class easy to pick up, and train anything within 4 inches of their viewing distance trainable. Giving warriors the ability to AoE-cone stun with shockwave for a duration of 4 seconds long on a 20 second cd is nowhere near balanced at all for any class in pvp. It may be in pve, but certaintly not for pvp, which you guys should really work on doing better. Practice making the use of abilities change depending on pve / pvp environments.

Another good example; Shadowpriests have a fear on demand whenever, including that of which is provided by the same kind of source as a bot. This is Psyfiend. This ability spams Fear-CC and serves as the same purpose as a bot, a mechanic you guys surely don't approve of, correct? When a human has no control over certain actions, is it considered a bot. goodjob at implementing a bot at anybodies use that has this class.

Locks: Alright their dots have always been fine, till MOP. You guys took what was once known as a caster class, and converted somehow into a class that hardly has to cast at all now. Locks were able to cast... oh wait, locks don't cast anymore. They could Click on Chaos Wave, and expect 2/3 - one shot kills in arenas due to the insane amount of damage this ability did, which then got fixed after players got their 2200+ achievements.
shortly after fixing that, everybody rolled destruction. I wonder why? Well the answer is simple, Cast chaos bolt and watch it hit for over 150k+ gauranteed crit. this ability alone, crushes anything. try picturing a ret with insane lack of defensives getting hit by a 120k chaos bolt with 65% resilience and divine protection (40% magical defense) + aura mastery (20% magical defense). Just the fact that chaos bolt can hit for 120k-150k per cast through 125%+ damage reduction is terrible calculations, please use a ti-83 or a ti-84 next time an ability is being redesigned.

The fact of this post is so that you guys can realize how bad rets are in pvp environments. After the nerfs on pvp power towards hybrid classes, and the nerfs to wogs, rets no longer stand a chance as of now in pvp, until next patch. Which makes every ret useless because anything and anyone can kill a ret, simply train him down and rely on a kill because our defensives + self healing are the worst in this game. every plate dps class has a way to avoid a certain percentage of damage by putting up defensive stance or blood presence, but clearly leaving rets without any of that was a good option.

With other classes being able to simply auto-attack you and do more sustained damage / pressure than you, clearly pve shouldn't be the case of why divine purpose isn't given to use passively. It boils down to the fact that ret is completely useless in pvp without the help of the things we once were given. Can't wait till next expansion, maybe we'll be wearing robes getting 2 shotted forsure, rather than 3 shotted.


This is just a wall of text lost track after the 4 th word.

To be honest nothing is wrong with ret, just noobs not know howing to play it properly. Go back to school get some lessons and soon you will become a great jedi master. Until then stop complaining.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
5250

This is just a wall of text lost track after the 4 th word.

To be honest nothing is wrong with ret, just noobs not know howing to play it properly. Go back to school get some lessons and soon you will become a great jedi master. Until then stop complaining.


Your lvl 87 lol
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
6645
He just made a post before saying ret is fine

Like I said, can't blame him if his mother dropped him on his head when he was a baby
Edited by Daemonism on 2/1/2013 3:14 PM PST
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