If you could change.....

Let's pretend that you have an opportunity to have a one on one discussion with a Developer and they asked you "What would you do to the Hunter Class" how would you look he/she in the eye and respond with a straight face?

Beast Mastery is currently is a good place right now but that isn't always the case each expansion. It seems like this talent tree gets revamped in some form or fashion each expansion.

First let's look at why BM is in a good place. BM is doing great because it now has all of the utility that the other specs had (Silencing Shot, Readiness, Wyvern Sting, etc) with the increased damage from pets (Stampede) and the mobility (BW stun breaker). A BM Hunter and his Pet can now do anything that the other spec can do (AoE, CC, DPS,) without having to consider changing specs regardless of PvP or PvE. You have accomplished your goal of not having one specific spec exclusively for PvE or PvP. It is too bad that BM is basically all three specs rolled into one spec but with a lower ceiling expertise. A turn-key spec. Hop on and go.

Many people enjoy the BM spec and I myself have played it for the last two expansions. This is not a cry for "nerfs". What I would be happy with is a clear definition of roles for each talent tree and to somehow reduce the number of keybinds and macro's needed to play the class.

Let's look at each specialization tree

Beast Mastery (BM)
Not really much to ask for in this tree. What I see here is an abundance of keybind/abilities bloat. I would like to see the following considered:

Focus Fire: Could we link this to Frenzy granting the hunter the haste buff until the frenzy effect wears off the pet? We could cap the haste at 20% and the focus gained to 3. This would free up a keybind that most hunter only consume after TBW.

Pet UI: Pet UI still seems wonky to me. The method of dismissing/rezzing/calling pets seems to be outdated for the Hunter in today's WoW. If people are still having problems (since Vanilla) with pet survivability why punish the hunter with a stationary cast time dismiss function? Either allow hunters to dismiss their dead pet while moving or simply allow the hunter to change pets like they would an aspect but with an implemented cool down system (suggestion 10 secs) so that a we can cycle Spirit Mend/Roar of Sacrifice etc.

The use of macro's for a bet to use their ability on other players also seems bloated/outdated. Could we maybe consider a pet focus target solution that would allow us to us our Helpful/Harmful pet spells?

Like I said not a lot of requested changes here. Mostly keybind bloat removal.

Marksman (MM)

Why would anyone like to play this spec other than the play style alone? Marksman doesn't bring anything to the table other than pure ranged damage and currently a Beast Master or Survival Hunter of equal or lesser skill can fill that role. I have seen people request to make "X" passive ability MM only but to me that won't bring MM up, it will only bring the other trees down.

Mastery: Consider changing the Mastery of MM Hunters from the 80% damage autoshot proc to increasing the base damage on ranged attacks by a % or a % chance of allowing the use of Kill Shot/Chimera Shot after a successful crit (i.e. Warriors Sudden Death)

Readiness: Reduce the cooldown of Readiness from 5 mins to 3 mins for Marksman. 5 Mins feels too punishing for a specialization tree that is already susceptible to stuns/fears etc. With talents we can lower our deterrence and disengage cd's. Having a shorter cd on Readiness only increases our survivability and our ability to burst. With all the CC chains currently in the game our window's of opportunity close fast.

Rapid Fire: Lower the CD to 2 mins and extend the duration to 20 secs.

Master Marksman: Take the RNG out of this. Once the Hunter casts 4 steady shots in a 30 sec window he has the ability to fire an Aimed Shot with 0 cast time within the ext 10 secs.

Chimera Shot: Bake Widow Venom into this and remove it from the other Specializations. Let it be reapplied by a successful Chimera Shot.

Survival (SV)

This old tree has seen it's ups and downs over the years. From the Lacerate days to the 0/31/30 Hybrid days to the AOE/CC/Stun days. Survival always felt sort of forced and never had a real design until recently. Over the years many called for a Melee Spec while others thought that should follow the title of increased survivability. Without having to totally rework the specialization I think that we could stick with the Magic Damage dealer but focus on the survivability issue that hunters need in a bad way.

Black Arrow: First thing remove the shared CD with the traps. You can still make it able to be dispelled. This will actually make people think if they want to waste an 8 sec cd on this or not. Maybe consider adding a health returned portion from Black Arrow.

Improved Serpent Sting: If you don't like the suggestion of Widow Venom baked into Chimera Shot then consider the alternative to baking it into this and having it Mortal Strike the opponent as well as siphon health back to the Hunter. The amount of health returned is based off the Mastery.

Talent to be named later: In a future expansion/spell revision please consider giving SV the ability to remove dots.

Increased Stamina: Increase the hunter's stamina by 10% (see Prot Warriors)

Wrap it up with a nice bow

Some of these idea's/suggestions might be flawed. These are just a few things that I have been thinking about over time. To sum it all up I have always thought the Hunter Class should fit the mold of:

BM: Pet Damage Focused Class (Mix of Ranged/Melee Damage from Hunter and Pet)
MM: Ranged Damage Class (Ranged Hard Hitter on Single Targets)
SV: The AOE damage and CC and increased Survivability.

The Three trees would have 3 distinct play styles such as a Holy/Ret/Prot pally but all focused as a Damage Dealer.

That is how my conversation would go with a developer. How would yours go?

(There are no right or wrong answers. Please don't come in here and try to disprove people with your math or own theories. Share your theories and how they would enhance the Hunter class)
Edited by Kreauxm on 2/4/2013 3:28 PM PST
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90 Worgen Hunter
7770
I'd have them balance the gear... if you look at slots... waist, hands and chest have excessive drops, crafts or valor purchases... but then you take our bracers and range weapon which both have a very little possibility of getting or upgrading... Both slots have a gap in them..

Range gap is from heroic to epic.. then even in epic you get 2 choices per raid setting and less then 1% chance at a daily drop or a BMah 50K purchase..

Then with bracers.. You have can only get 1 drop from stone guardians in all 3 raid settings or a less then 1% world drop from HOF... or a low rated valor purchase... So from the Valor purchase to heroic stone guards there is a gap in improving that slot...

i don't think they put much though into this.. There are 3 waist drops per each raid setting plus 2 valor purchases... They should of made the waist operations valor purchase a bracer instead... That would of made the gear more balanced..
Edited by Dieranged on 2/4/2013 3:42 PM PST
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Id bring back aspect of dragonhawk

and mabye mana cause i miss it aswell
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90 Goblin Hunter
4900
02/04/2013 03:26 PMPosted by Kreauxm
Why would anyone like to play this spec other than the play style alone? Marksman doesn't bring anything to the table other than pure ranged damage and currently a Beast Master or Survival Hunter of equal or lesser skill can fill that role. I have seen people request to make "X" passive ability MM only but to me that won't bring MM up, it will only bring the other trees down.


Unless you have a decent weapon, you can't really appreciate the damage that marks brings. Unlike BM, Marks isn't dependent on a pet that gets CCed and killed more often than you'd imagine in an RBG against decent players.

In regular BGs, it's easy to stomp face as BM, and if any hunter asked me what spec they should play if they don't have their pvp weapon yet, I'd say BM.

In RBGs, I need to stay max range to avoid getting focused and only come in close for scatter traps on healers and peels off my team. Marks gives me more freedom, I feel, that BM does not. As BM I constantly found myself looking for my pet to blinkstrike>Kill Command and wondered why he couldn't do it, then I'd have to look at his debuff, see he was feared, rooted, etc.

In RBGs my dps is severely hindered by BM's dependency on pet, whether it's due to it getting constantly CCed or dying, then having to rez it. Bleh. I love marks. I feel like a sniper.

In arena, it's preference, but BM is seemingly the go to spec thanks to the 2 extra "trinkets" you get from BW. I don't arena anymore, however, strictly RBG.

But to answer your original question, I'd ask them to fix power shot, which they already have in the next PTR build according to a post GC made
Edited by Dungflinger on 2/5/2013 11:12 AM PST
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100 Worgen Hunter
12965
for marksman once we learn widow venom at level 40 serpent sting should merge with it (or viceversa)

but your right here lets fix that

if marksman is close enough to see and apply hunters mark to another player we should be able to cast aimed shot at it and for each time it successfully hits from outside of the forty yard standard range we lose 10 focus from the cost of the next aimed shot for each time it successfully hits capping at five times and the effect lasts until our target enters withing 25 yards, we take damage, or 10 seconds has elapsed since the last aimed shot but for it to work at all it requires line of sight for the shot to charge
Edited by Mashonis on 2/5/2013 2:50 PM PST
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90 Orc Hunter
4650
02/05/2013 12:56 PMPosted by Mashonis
if marksman is close enough to see and apply hunters mark to another player we should be able to cast aimed shot at it


Jesus tap dancing christ, talk about overbuff. You really think ANYTHING should be able to attack from 100 yds away O.o much less our hardest hitting shot (in theory our hardest hitting shot).
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100 Worgen Hunter
12965
maybe so but it would most certainly set us apart from the other two classes and would give us a reason to use our "special skill" outside of instant cast and a nearly certain crit start in pve fights

*edited it*
Edited by Mashonis on 2/5/2013 2:51 PM PST
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90 Blood Elf Monk
10730
I would remove our dependence on an AI controlled pet to do damage.
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90 Human Hunter
5230
02/05/2013 03:14 PMPosted by Koneko
I would remove our dependence on an AI controlled pet to do damage.


you agreed to depend on your pet for some things when you rolled the class
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100 Night Elf Hunter
9290
02/05/2013 05:01 PMPosted by Bootywarrior
you agreed to depend on your pet for some things when you rolled the class

we actually didn't it wasn't till lv 10 that they forced us to be together.

I had so many expectations, I thought the pets would be optional, I also thought i would be able to track down a select horde through a waypoint on the mini map when i reach a high enough lv.
Edited by Farsightrx on 2/5/2013 11:36 PM PST
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90 Orc Hunter
6375
I'd really like to see some help towards our pet's pvp survivability, especially for BM, when our pet is such an important part of our functionality. A glyphed mend pet along with a spirit heal usually makes someone change their mind when they start focusing on my pet, but if two or more people really want to kill him, then there's not much I can do. And after he's dead, I might as well just lay down and die as well.

If no buff to pet survivability, than being able to dismiss your pet without line-of-sight would be extremely helpful at least.
Edited by Qgravity on 2/5/2013 11:52 PM PST
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90 Human Hunter
5230
we actually didn't it wasn't till lv 10 that they forced us to be together.


regarless you knew it was coming
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90 Dwarf Hunter
14545
02/04/2013 03:26 PMPosted by Kreauxm
A BM Hunter and his Pet can now do anything that the other spec can do (AoE,


BM aoe is horrible. If they would at least add Kill Command to the beast cleave table it might become adequate, but there is a reason why BM isn't used on many aoe heavy fights.

What would I change? I would just have pets removed. Through eight years now blizzard have time and time again shown they cannot make pet AI work. It isn't a coincidene that every time warlocks have been presented with a non-pet viable spec they flock to it. Using a pet has to be directly superior to not using one because using one is just tedious.

Constantly pathing issues arise where the pet either becomes stuck or just walks off into odd directions. Surviability issues between what does and does not qualify as AOE damage. I've had mind controls during Vizier where our dk just turns and gibs the pet. Fights keep having damage bonus effects which do not affect pets. Garalon initially didn't work, the fog on Will of the Emperor doesn't affect them (I realize it would do damage, but not being affected further hurts hunters for the fight), the floor tiles for Stone Guardians does not affect them and nor does the damage buff during heroic protectors.

When you make a class reliant on a certain mechanic, attention must be paid to make sure the mechanic works. If you cannot correctly master the mechanic after eight years, perhaps you need to abandon it. People like pets, but they are effectively a liability for hunters. Either they are terrible and hunters are punished with a terrible mechanic, or pets are horribly overpowered and then nerfed as allowing that to continue would be unacceptable.

Blizzard likes class flavor and good for them. Somethings need to simply be addressed before just continuing down the road. When one single mechanic is responsible for a large amount of problems a class has, then serious work needs to be done to fix/remove that aspect of the class. Hunter has a long history of this with the way pets originally worked to mana to ammo deadzone and minimum range. All of those mechanics kept creating many more problems for the class than blizzard could solve. They need to either decide how to make pets finally work, or just scrap the concept. Hunters the only class that has a viable raid spec that actually uses its pet, and that is because there is no alternative. They are changing warlocks, but unless using a pet is decisively better than sacrificing it, people will continue to not use them.

It is a similar problem to the 10v25 situation. Blizzard says people gravitate toward less stressful environment of 10s as opposed to organizing 25 people. Hunters/Warlocks/DKs will gravitate towards not using pets, or minimizing their potential impact as long as it is a valid option. Unholy and Demo will be seldom used until they can be shown to be significantly better than frost/affliction.
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90 Night Elf Hunter
6035
02/05/2013 11:27 PMPosted by Farsightrx
you agreed to depend on your pet for some things when you rolled the class

we actually didn't it wasn't till lv 10 that they forced us to be together.

I had so many expectations, I thought the pets would be optional, I also thought i would be able to track down a select horde through a waypoint on the mini map when i reach a high enough lv.

I couldn't help but laugh at this idea. And then I thought to myself "We are hunters arent we?"
It would be cool to be able to track certain horde down. Or at the very least if we are killed by one we would be able to see his whereabouts for a specified amount of time.
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100 Troll Hunter
11450
Thnx god for not another "nerf bm buff mm" thread.
For MM i would ask:
Remove improved steady shot and give the haste as passive bonus. There are many times we dont want or we cant cast those pair of steady shots both in pve and pvp.
Chimera shot doesnot need another utility, it allready has the self heal.it could have some damage buff though and not hitting just little more than arcane shot.
I totally agree master marksman rng is horrible and needs to go away.
Give some armor piercing capability to aimed shot, like ignore 25-50% of target's armor.

For SV i would ask:
Sv spec pvewise is on a decent state. King of aoe and still competetive on single target fights.
For pvp needs some really good love to be good. The only utility it has is the trap root. The amazing knockback glyph of explosive trap is just horrible for sv spec.
Perhaps some of you remember the dark ranger bonus hero from wc3. She was my favorite one. She had the black arrow special that leeched the life of her opponents.
Black arrow cd needs to go away. Also black arrow should drain x life from the target for each tick and if dispelled drain x* life from the dispeller.
And last i would ask some "fix" on snake trap. 99% of the times it procs only deadly poison that hits for 0 damage. Snake trap could proc mind numb and cripple poison every time it hits instead of once on a blue moon
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100 Night Elf Hunter
9290
we actually didn't it wasn't till lv 10 that they forced us to be together.


regarless you knew it was coming


Since this was my first Toon, no, i actually didn't know what was coming until it came. But I did instead have expectations, since I know what a Hunter is. And i was not seriously expecting to tame the very animals i have to kill, I thought it was cool but a distraction from the real objective of being a hunter; specially a MM. In fact after getting my own version of WoW i made this hunter again, and tried not doing the pet quests and avoided purchasing pet related abilities, but by lv 11 I began to noticed how inevitably i was getting my !@# handed to me. So i strolled back and got the thing, I thought the game was going to be more about choosing your play style, but every exp pac I noticed that we are becoming more dependent on the pet, which isn't a bad thing but i would rather be more MM instead of essentially BM regardless of spec.

  • notice how the only pet related things you don't get by being a diferent spec are.
  • (1) Kill command (2) intimidation (3) exotic taming (4) extra pet damage (5) BW
    ------------------------------------------<>------------------------------------
  • you still have to at least macro in
  • (1) Master's call

  • but if you want to have a chance of being decent you'll have to use
  • (2) petfollow (3) petpassive (4) petattack (5) pet's special (6) cower (7) roar of sacrifice/rabid (8) mend pet

  • some people take it even further and use
  • (9) dash/charge (10) petmoveto (11) pet defensive (12) Laststand

  • and don't forget about the talent/glyph
  • (13)exhiliration (14) blink strike/lynx rush (15) fetch

    with 12 out of the 17 pet related features, not including the optional talent/glyphs... you're 70% BM as a MM or SV hunter
    Edited by Farsightrx on 2/7/2013 7:35 PM PST
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