So how the heck does the LFR work?

100 Human Rogue
11320
02/06/2013 11:22 AMPosted by Danjiri
Personally, I've always thought a 20% would be better, but even 17 or 18% would be nice, and show at least a little give on Blizz's part. I doubt we'll see that for 5.0 lfr until 5.2 drops, and we're playing catchup, etc. however. That's life in WoW I guess.


Theres no give because 15% is the intended rate at which players gear. Players who feel entitled to more free loot are simply misguided and wrong. They do not want you gearing any faster than you already are(which ironically is the fastest gearing rate of all time). Once the next tier comes out sure, catch up will be a little quicker but there's a reason that the 5.2 LFRs will retain the same drop rate.
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90 Orc Shaman
13550
02/06/2013 11:22 AMPosted by Danjiri
Personally, I've always thought a 20% would be better, but even 17 or 18% would be nice, and show at least a little give on Blizz's part. I doubt we'll see that for 5.0 lfr until 5.2 drops, and we're playing catchup, etc. however. That's life in WoW I guess.


Personally, I've always thought LFR should kick you out if you have empty glyphs, sockets, or missing enchants.
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90 Dwarf Warrior
17115
If it was 20, there's be complaints it should be 25

Heck, if it was 85%, people would be complaining that they didnt win loot from 2-3 bosses
Edited by Asane on 2/6/2013 4:39 PM PST
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100 Night Elf Warrior
20895
So you're asking to be showered in loot but with the possibility of duplicate loot still intact?

Still equates to "getting more loot" because if you're showered in it then you have a higher chance of getting what you need faster.
You misunderstand my reply to Captnronn. And possibly misunderstanding all my posts so far.

- I'd like a smarter loot system.
- As it stands you can get no loot or you can get an abundance of duplicate loot. This is not a smart system.
- I'm not asking for a higher drop rate of loot. Which can just equal to an over abundance of duplicate loot.
- I'm asking for a system that can determine what loot you need.
- Awarding loot you need does not equal to showering you with more loot. Because at the moment you could have been winning a dozen duplicate loot. A smarter system would effectively reduce that problem. Smarter does not always equal more. In a case where you have won nothing then, yes, a smarter system would reward that player more. But see the difference?

You get so caught up with "you people just want more loot" argument.

02/06/2013 10:35 AMPosted by Shoggot
Yeah! They could drop, say, badges or something. Badges of justice. I think this system would work out great.
Unless you're being sarcastic, badge of justice was justice points only reworded. A token system like that in ToC was just a better way to get the gear you wanted rather than farm bosses for random loot drops.

If it was 20, there's be complaints it should be 25

Heck, if it was 85%, people would be complaining that they didnt win loot from 2-3 bosses
Kind of a fallacy. 20% is a totally different beast from 85% and so on. Fixing the current problem should not be shied away from because of a fear down the line people will still complain.
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100 Dwarf Death Knight
18230
02/08/2013 05:29 PMPosted by Wrongway
Kind of a fallacy. 20% is a totally different beast from 85% and so on. Fixing the current problem should not be shied away from because of a fear down the line people will still complain.


20 and 15 are not different besides the dial on the hand

It'll be 30 in a few weeks.
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90 Human Paladin
5695
RNG is RNG. It took me over 2 moths with coins to get shin'ka (which just dropped today!) but everything else seems to have dropped for me. Some you win, some you lose.
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90 Orc Shaman
13550
- I'd like a smarter loot system.
- As it stands you can get no loot or you can get an abundance of duplicate loot. This is not a smart system.
- I'm not asking for a higher drop rate of loot. Which can just equal to an over abundance of duplicate loot.
- I'm asking for a system that can determine what loot you need.


A smarter loot system means you get loot faster, without altering the drop rate.

In order to have a smarter system, the actual drop rate would need to fall to at least 10%. Probably further.

02/08/2013 05:29 PMPosted by Wrongway
- Awarding loot you need does not equal to showering you with more loot. Because at the moment you could have been winning a dozen duplicate loot. A smarter system would effectively reduce that problem. Smarter does not always equal more. In a case where you have won nothing then, yes, a smarter system would reward that player more. But see the difference?


I think you're exaggerating on duplicates, but even if you're not, it's just something you need to deal with. My guild killed Heroic Amber-Shaper this week for the 3rd time and got 3 pairs of Agi leather boots. Still haven't seen the Str weapon. Still haven't seen a Prot leg token.

There isn't a difference in the overall scheme. Your "difference" still means that people will gear faster. And Blizzard is happy with the gearing pace. If they're happy with the gearing pace, then even if they changed the system to be "smarter," they would have to change something else to keep that pace. "Something else" would most likely be the actual drop rate of 15%.

02/08/2013 05:29 PMPosted by Wrongway
Unless you're being sarcastic, badge of justice was justice points only reworded. A token system like that in ToC was just a better way to get the gear you wanted rather than farm bosses for random loot drops.


The whole of drops is never going to be a token system because Blizzard likes the thrill given when you kill a certain boss for a certain item. A token system means you could get the most powerful items earlier, which largely defeats the purpose of difficulty progression in a tier. Yes, I know you weren't necessarily talking about switching the entire system to tokens, but I'm addressing it anyway.

Anyway, Valor is your token system right now.

As for tier gear as tokens, that doesn't work quite as well for an organized guild and is exploitable by the cutting edge. They would run as many raids as needed to funnel the tokens to their main raiders, ensuring that everyone in their raids had the new 4 piece bonuses in a few weeks' time. Other guilds would funnel the tokens to certain people, doing the same thing on a lesser scale. Warlocks are powerful this tier, and their set bonus is good? Sorry everyone in the raid, gonna funnel the first ~12 tier tokens at the Warlocks. It just isn't a good system.

On top of that, in ToC, the Normal versions at the time had a cost of Justice points to upgrade. Do you want to return to that, too? A Justice cost would mean you needed to keep farming 5 mans for awhile in order to buy your tier gear. A Valor cost would mean you weren't spending Valor on other Valor items, meaning your gearing pace would slow down.
Edited by Hyjinx on 2/9/2013 9:05 AM PST
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100 Night Elf Warrior
20895
02/09/2013 08:59 AMPosted by Hyjinx
A smarter loot system means you get loot faster, without altering the drop rate.
As a player I have absolutely no problem with gearing faster. I prefer it over the frustration of gearing at a crawl. It's not fun chasing down an item run after run and come up empty handed.

02/09/2013 08:59 AMPosted by Hyjinx
Blizzard is happy with the gearing pace.
Blizzard is happy (I remember reading this on their tweets/interviews) but players are not.

02/09/2013 08:59 AMPosted by Hyjinx
I think you're exaggerating on duplicates, but even if you're not, it's just something you need to deal with.
I'm not exaggerating because the system right now makes it a real possibility to get duplicate after duplicate after duplicate. Just dealing with it is not what I imagine would be Blizzard's final answer. They give us the impression that they listen to player feedback.

02/09/2013 08:59 AMPosted by Hyjinx
My guild killed Heroic Amber-Shaper this week for the 3rd time and got 3 pairs of Agi leather boots. Still haven't seen the Str weapon. Still haven't seen a Prot leg token.
I'd like to hear what your raid thought after seeing those drops.
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100 Dwarf Death Knight
18230
02/10/2013 12:30 AMPosted by Wrongway
Blizzard is happy (I remember reading this on their tweets/interviews) but players are not.


"players" won't be happy until you get every drop in 1 run
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90 Orc Shaman
13550
02/10/2013 12:30 AMPosted by Wrongway
As a player I have absolutely no problem with gearing faster. I prefer it over the frustration of gearing at a crawl. It's not fun chasing down an item run after run and come up empty handed.


This is why the players don't design the game.

02/10/2013 12:30 AMPosted by Wrongway
Blizzard is happy (I remember reading this on their tweets/interviews) but players are not.


Of course players aren't. Players won't be happy until they're either showered with epics, get to choose their gear (or have the system be smart enough to do it for them), or both.

That isn't a very good model, though, because those very same players will most likely quit playing as soon as they have what they want.

02/10/2013 12:30 AMPosted by Wrongway
I'm not exaggerating because the system right now makes it a real possibility to get duplicate after duplicate after duplicate. Just dealing with it is not what I imagine would be Blizzard's final answer. They give us the impression that they listen to player feedback.


You don't want them to design the game based on player feedback.

Luckily, the game is designed so that even if you get multiple duplicates, it shouldn't hold you back. You don't need every item to move forward.

02/10/2013 12:30 AMPosted by Wrongway
I'd like to hear what your raid thought after seeing those drops.


Curses from the Strength users and Prot users, naturally. However, they understand that it's part of the game. You don't.

In the case of weapons, they did mess up this tier; there's far too few of them.
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90 Night Elf Hunter
6465
I hope they never implement something like that.


They already have. It's called Valor Points.
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100 Night Elf Warrior
20895
02/10/2013 08:34 AMPosted by Hyjinx
This is why the players don't design the game.
I'm here to give my player experience. Not clock in and start writing code. I don't misconstrue my role here.

02/10/2013 08:34 AMPosted by Hyjinx
You don't want them to design the game based on player feedback.
Yet they do design the game with player feedback taken into account. Time and time again.

02/10/2013 08:34 AMPosted by Hyjinx
Curses from the Strength users and Prot users, naturally. However, they understand that it's part of the game. You don't.
I do understand. Like when everything else wrong with the game in the past was "part" of the game. And then Blizzard made adjustments...

I feel like you and I have reached an impasse. You can have the last word which I'll come back and read later.
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90 Orc Shaman
13550
02/13/2013 03:43 AMPosted by Wrongway
Yet they do design the game with player feedback taken into account. Time and time again.


Taken into account, yes. Universally applied, no.

Besides, what would be your methodology for separating out the feedback? DS LFR feedback led us to this system, and now there are people saying they want the old system back. Do you leap backwards now?

Also, the gear acquisition rate in this game is overall quicker than it's ever been before, yet you still have people complain about gear acquisition. How far do you accelerate it before it reaches stupidity (note: my feedback is that it's borderline stupidity right now)?
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100 Pandaren Priest
18070
02/09/2013 08:59 AMPosted by Hyjinx
A smarter loot system means you get loot faster, without altering the drop rate.
I can't fathom why so many complainers don't understand THIS.

The only place Blizzard has admitted it could use work is if you go on a long losing streak, and that's a spot where it wouldn't hurt to throw off drop percentages.

Winning duplicates and inferior stuff is not LFR's fault. It means you have already benefited from gear options available. Duplicate loot happens in real raids. It happens in dungeons. Hell, it happens when questing. Why is it suddenly a tragic unfairness that you also get it in LFR?
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