Paladin CC - Retribution only HoPow Finisher?

90 Human Paladin
9205
So I was reading the arena forums (shame on me right) and I saw what appeared to be a brilliant idea from a paladin named Lobster -

"Along those lines, maybe something like:

Instant Repen returned to ret. Replace Repen in the tree with a different kind of ranged CC on a reasonable cooldown, maybe a silence or disarm? It could be a cast like the current Repen.

Or maybe we could play with holy power. A different utility or CC finisher could be interesting.

There was an idea in Cata that I think could work as either a talent or a spec specific ability: spend holy power on a ranged Cyclone-like CC. It would have a cooldown like feral Cyclone and the amount of HP you spend determines the duration of the effect."


What if Blinding Light (our 87 talent) got reworked to cost Holy Power? Tack on maybe a 30 second to a minute CD on it so it can be used often enough to make it appealing, while giving each charge of holy power spent (up to 3) a unique ability for example:

1 holy power - Silence your current target for 2 seconds
2 holy power - Stun all enemies within 15 yards for 2 seconds
3 holy power - Disorient all enemies within 15 yards for 5 seconds, all damage besides Censure would break it.

Now, those are just examples of we could have, so those are not definite CCs we should have per charge of holy power on said ability.

What do y'all think about this?
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90 Tauren Paladin
8615
Although your ideas are interesting, I think Ret is in need of stronger sustainable dps for PvP instead of more CC's. Our burst is very impressive but we're relatively useless for the 2 mins 45 secs we wait to be able to burst again. I would gladly take a reduction in burst in exchange for higher, regular damage.
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90 Human Paladin
9205
01/31/2013 03:50 PMPosted by Hbomb
Although your ideas are interesting, I think Ret is in need of stronger sustainable dps for PvP instead of more CC's. Our burst is very impressive but we're relatively useless for the 2 mins 45 secs we wait to be able to burst again. I would gladly take a reduction in burst in exchange for higher, regular damage.
I agree, our sustained could use a tune up, and I wouldn't mind sacrificing burst for it (though that means you have to set up your kills a little bit better). However this is more of a quality of life change, so we have something that the Holy Spec doesn't have. (Give more reason to bring a Ret paladin to arenas, RBGs over a Holy Paladin)
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90 Human Paladin
9970
I think the overall idea (CC via Holy Power) is interesting; having completely different effects from different amounts of Holy Power might not work well, especially since our PvP 4pc gives us holy power generation that is not under our own control.
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90 Human Paladin
6565
01/31/2013 03:50 PMPosted by Hbomb
Although your ideas are interesting, I think Ret is in need of stronger sustainable dps for PvP instead of more CC's. Our burst is very impressive but we're relatively useless for the 2 mins 45 secs we wait to be able to burst again. I would gladly take a reduction in burst in exchange for higher, regular damage.


I agree with this. While a HoPo finisher CC is interesting, it's still HoPo we're using on CC and not damage. So actually our DPS would decrease a little more.

The recent change to Hand of Sac is a step in the right direction, we play support so a straight-up CC seems odd.

What about a spell we put on allies where if someone attacks them, they get silenced or disarmed? Like a counterattack.
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90 Human Paladin
9205
01/31/2013 07:56 PMPosted by Ravicana
I think the overall idea (CC via Holy Power) is interesting; having completely different effects from different amounts of Holy Power might not work well, especially since our PvP 4pc gives us holy power generation that is not under our own control.
You're completely right, I didn't think about that in the equation of how this ability would work, as much as I would love for it to be really dynamic.

I agree with this. While a HoPo finisher CC is interesting, it's still HoPo we're using on CC and not damage. So actually our DPS would decrease a little more.

The recent change to Hand of Sac is a step in the right direction, we play support so a straight-up CC seems odd.

What about a spell we put on allies where if someone attacks them, they get silenced or disarmed? Like a counterattack.
You're on to something else, which is also good, so here's another idea that solves both issues(though can still be considered a dps loss) that can give Ret a little more flavor.

-What if we had a Holy Power Finisher that gave a friendly target a buff to where "if said target is attacked, said debuff/CC is placed on them" lasting x amount of seconds per charge of holy power. The debuff/CC that is placed on the attacker is subject to change though, I personally was thinking of a stacking movement imparing debuff, 5% debuff per stack, stacks up to 10 times. That way, we have another way to peel for our arena partner(s) and maybe make us useful for RBGs like WSG and Twin Peaks. Of course, if this is implemented it would have to have a CD of at the very least 1 minute, and should be dispelable as well. Thoughts?
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90 Human Paladin
7020
They could give us another CC that costs a full 5 HP. It'd have to be good enough to spend all 5 HP on, but we currently don't have anything that expensive. It'd be new and refreshing, plus it would help give Rets more use in arena and RBGs.

I don't know, but Rets need something to make them appealing again from what I can tell.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
6480
For arenas, i think ret needs something to make people think twice about training us. Kill the ret is the #1 plan of attack in any arena match and we have almost nothing to save ourselves from being focused down. Bubble just gets broken so it doesnt count, imo (honestly i would like to see bubble removed completely from game. Its a false crutch). So we only really have blinding light to get some breathing room.

I would like to see a dmg return mechanic for ret, or maybe something like natures grasp that cc's people when they hit us. Even just increased mitigation or self heals so training ret wouldnt be guaranteed to work almost 100% of the time would be fine with me. As it stands, this is pretty much the case. I would say at least 85% of my arena matches end with me dead- regardless of if we win or lose or what comp we are facing. That shouldnt be the case. In a balanced game ret should not always be the weakest link regardless of who i partner with or who i am are facing.

Also making hof remove stuns would go a long way to increase our survivaliblity. I mean you can still cast hof while stunned for Christs sake! When i first started playing again i thought hof still removed stuns b/c you could still cast it while under that effect. Very pissed when it didnt work. At least i got to die with neat circles spinning around my feet :/
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90 Human Paladin
9205
For arenas, i think ret needs something to make people think twice about training us. Kill the ret is the #1 plan of attack in any arena match and we have almost nothing to save ourselves from being focused down. Bubble just gets broken so it doesnt count, imo (honestly i would like to see bubble removed completely from game. Its a false crutch). So we only really have blinding light to get some breathing room.

I would like to see a dmg return mechanic for ret, or maybe something like natures grasp that cc's people when they hit us. Even just increased mitigation or self heals so training ret wouldnt be guaranteed to work almost 100% of the time would be fine with me. As it stands, this is pretty much the case. I would say at least 85% of my arena matches end with me dead- regardless of if we win or lose or what comp we are facing. That shouldnt be the case. In a balanced game ret should not always be the weakest link regardless of who i partner with or who i am are facing.

Also making hof remove stuns would go a long way to increase our survivaliblity. I mean you can still cast hof while stunned for Christs sake! When i first started playing again i thought hof still removed stuns b/c you could still cast it while under that effect. Very pissed when it didnt work. At least i got to die with neat circles spinning around my feet :/
Yeah, they should bring back Retribution Aura in a similar fashion, would help that situation!
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90 Human Paladin
6800
From what I've heard from Blues, they might be adding an effect to Hand of Sacrifice that is Ret only, removing harmful magic effects like Deep Freeze. I think this is a good change to Ret in itself.

CC isn't as bad as some classes, such as Shaman, 30 second cooldown on a 6 second CC and an AoE 6 second Disorient is nothing to laugh at. Blizzard can't overdo it, otherwise we might turn into Warriors at the start of MoP, but with ranged attacks.

But yeah, i agree with the cow, we need more sustained damage. And maybe 1 more defensive.
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