Tauren,Taunka, Or Yaungol

90 Orc Warlock
10710
@Natheriam

Yeah, in the Tauren case their "leadership" is more of a liability then an asset.
And rest, how much of that metal and guns are provided by the Goblins and orcs, who actuality have the forges to make them in abundance.

Right now they are lifted by the Horde, and races that make it up. Place them in a situation where they forced to use their own tech and magic. Against a races that have aggressive culture and have no qualms about eradication and dominating an enemy. Who have similar tech and their unique magic and means.

And they would be at loss.

And Tauren have faced a culture before with the same attitude as the Yaungal and nearly went extinct.
Only saved by the grace of Thrall.

Left alone, against who have fought much harder battles. They would lose, every time.

And biggest reason they would lose, they appease their enemy, and go way, way out way to point jeopardizing people in order to find out why their been attacked. And resolve the issue though understanding and talks.
This doesn't work in enemies like the Yaungal, who the Pandarian know never listen or make friends and it sure as hell didn't work with the Quilboar.
And mostly they tried it with the Centaur too. And we know how well that went.

They lack the right attitude. Water, gifts, smoke pips and pleasant talk do not make warriors.
Or race they needs to survive against an uncompromising world and its enemies.
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90 Tauren Hunter
11000
Your forgetting that the tribes have been united for years now centaur were only a problem because the tribes were scattered.

02/06/2013 02:50 AMPosted by Chorrol
And rest, how much of that metal and guns are provided by the Goblins and orcs, who actuality have the forges to make them in abundance.


Tauren have had metal for more than ten thousand years. They can make there own weapons.

02/06/2013 02:50 AMPosted by Chorrol
And mostly they tried it with the Centaur too. And we know how well that went.

The Tauren have never and would never talk peace with the Centaur. Tauren Kill Centaur on sight.

Tauren have fought in several full scale wars. Look at the War of the Ancients and Third War they faced the worse the Legion had to offer and without batting an eye laid waist to any who stood before them. They have fought a war on two fronts against the centaur and the quilboar for thousands of years. The Tauren avoid battle if they can if they cant they fight with unbridled ferocity.

The Yaungol use hit and run tactics they tried to fight a stand up battle with the Shado Pan and were slaughtered. The Yaungol are raiders who fight peasants when faced with warriors they flee.
Edited by Ironhorn on 2/6/2013 10:26 PM PST
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90 Orc Warlock
10710
@Ironhorn

Point one united tribes bull
Mute point as we have little information on large or how scattered the tribes were. For all we know a single tribe could have had a population similar to Thunderbluff.
If they had many then the centaurs wipe thrm until they had only few left in their tribes, or they had always had just a few and centaur attacks did only minors casualties,yet still enough to drive them to extinction.

The former makes it seem like they are weak, and the latter makes forever dancing on the edge of extinction. We're it seems it would only take a strong wind to knock them over, which is pathetic.
Neither pants them in a good light.
And when you still fighting large faction of your own kind within your own land, I do not call that a unified race. No matter how that old intro spun it.

Point two, on metal
And?
My point was they are not savy techs. Nor do have technology that comparatively better then the Yaugal or the Tuanka. The best Tech they get is from the Horde, and without the Horde to provide said tech to them. They would be on equal footing with the other cow men

Point three to kill a centaur
And how many tribes had to be slaughtered, how many Tuaren had to be skinned before they relised the fact that centaur had to be killed on site.
Tuaren are pathetically slow to anger. Given what we have seen about Camp tuarajo, the Allinace, and even their dealings with the Horde. It would be uncharacteristic of them to go kill happy after a few deaths.
It probably took them near the point of extinction for them know that some enemies can't be dealt with without force, and by then it was too late.

Point four war of the ancients
They couldn't remember Druidism, what the hell makes you think they would remember a thing about some frontline experience from 10 millennia ago.
Also, they wre just tag alongs to main force if the Nights Elves as they are to the Orcs now. They are not a force that maje an army,they just show up alongside greater armies then they could ever produce.

Point five, Centaur and Quilboar.
Yeah, and they nearly went extint from those wars. It is not something to brag about.

Point five, trashing the Yaugal.
They were fighting peasant because they were taking land from them. They not hit and runs. They were their to take their stuff, because they claiming it for their own. They were conquering. Which is point in their favor in this little three way war.
And
They seem to hold the Frontlines well enough in Twolong Steps. Mainly against the mantid. Who are hands a more pressing threat then the Shado pan.
And the Shado are a of fat ninja who had the high ground and lots burung alcohol, what did you expect?

And they do hold their own against an invading force of mantid in one of thier last villages.
So I would gather they have more then a heathly supply of frontline experience. And the fact they have survives against creatures so dangerous the Mogu built a wall to keep those creatures out, and have lasted for over ten thousands without the help of anyone.

Its a testimony to their skill, experience, and sure grit. The Yaungal will surive because they will anything to ensure it.

The Tuaren will not because they value the welfare of others over themselves. That makes a good friend and a good Allie, but I sure as hell would not desire to part of their tribe when survival is in the table.
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58 Undead Death Knight
120
02/06/2013 10:25 PMPosted by Ironhorn
The Tauren have never and would never talk peace with the Centaur. Tauren Kill Centaur on sight.


Except in Desolace, where you befriend a couple of Centaur tribes and actually go about uniting them.

The Tauren avoid battle if they can if they cant they fight with unbridled ferocity.


When Camp Turajo was raised, Baine's response was to build a big wall, stay behind it, and exile those that wanted revenge. Given he's still the loved leader of the Tauren, I think this is fairly telling about how ferocious they are.

The Yaungol use hit and run tactics they tried to fight a stand up battle with the Shado Pan and were slaughtered. The Yaungol are raiders who fight peasants when faced with warriors they flee.


The Yaungol took the gate leading into Kun'Lai Summit, IIRC. This is the tallest and thickest wall in the game, and it's manned by a professional army, and the Yaungol were capable of taking it.
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100 Goblin Rogue
15350
I'd have to give it to the Yaungol.

1) They have siege weapons.
2) They use cavalry.
3) They have a more aggressive culture.
4) They use napalm.


tauren have 1,2,4 in spades. 3 is up for debate.

You're missing the Yaungol weaknesses that have already been posted: terrible, uncoordinated society, lower tech, less troop diversity.
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90 Tauren Druid
7310
While your point stands on the Yaungol weaknesses (btw I feel the Tauren would definitely win), the Tauren would not have those siege weapons, or napalm without the rest of the Horde. Then again I guess you could say that making friends is its own reward which I guess is a definite giant boon to the Tauren.

Edit: That giant boon is in gaining technological advantage they would not have devised on their own.
Edited by Onomi on 2/7/2013 6:07 PM PST
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90 Tauren Hunter
11000
Point one united tribes bull
Mute point as we have little information on large or how scattered the tribes were. For all we know a single tribe could have had a population similar to Thunderbluff.
If they had many then the centaurs wipe thrm until they had only few left in their tribes, or they had always had just a few and centaur attacks did only minors casualties,yet still enough to drive them to extinction.


With the help of the quilboar it took ten thousand years to drive them to the brink. That is the longest war between mortals in the History of Azeroth.

Point two, on metal
And?
My point was they are not savy techs. Nor do have technology that comparatively better then the Yaugal or the Tuanka. The best Tech they get is from the Horde, and without the Horde to provide said tech to them. They would be on equal footing with the other cow men


Tauren have adopted much of there tech from the Horde but it has become part of there culture now allowing them to create things like the Great Lift and explosives which are far superior to oil bombs. Tauren have air forces they as they befriended Wyverns years ago.

Point three to kill a centaur
And how many tribes had to be slaughtered, how many Tuaren had to be skinned before they relised the fact that centaur had to be killed on site.
Tuaren are pathetically slow to anger. Given what we have seen about Camp tuarajo, the Allinace, and even their dealings with the Horde. It would be uncharacteristic of them to go kill happy after a few deaths.
It probably took them near the point of extinction for them know that some enemies can't be dealt with without force, and by then it was too late.


Tauren are not slow to anger to the point one whole tribe had to be destroyed to fight a war. All it took for them to start killing dwarves was them digging on there land they didn't even kill anyone.

Point four war of the ancients
They couldn't remember Druidism, what the hell makes you think they would remember a thing about some frontline experience from 10 millennia ago.
Also, they wre just tag alongs to main force if the Nights Elves as they are to the Orcs now. They are not a force that maje an army,they just show up alongside greater armies then they could ever produce.


They turned away from Druidism because they liked Shamanism more they didn't just forget. Tauren remember the hunt of Malorne where they nearly ran down and slew a demigod and that was thousands of years before the War of the Ancients. The tails of the War of the Ancients would not have been forgotten.

Point five, Centaur and Quilboar.
Yeah, and they nearly went extint from those wars. It is not something to brag about.


Fighting a war on two fronts for ten thousand years is most definitely something to be proud of the barrens tribes were in bad shape but they were still fighting.

Point five, trashing the Yaugal.
They were fighting peasant because they were taking land from them. They not hit and runs. They were their to take their stuff, because they claiming it for their own. They were conquering. Which is point in their favor in this little three way war.
And
They seem to hold the Frontlines well enough in Twolong Steps. Mainly against the mantid. Who are hands a more pressing threat then the Shado pan.
And the Shado are a of fat ninja who had the high ground and lots burung alcohol, what did you expect?

And they do hold their own against an invading force of mantid in one of thier last villages.
So I would gather they have more then a heathly supply of frontline experience. And the fact they have survives against creatures so dangerous the Mogu built a wall to keep those creatures out, and have lasted for over ten thousands without the help of anyone.

Its a testimony to their skill, experience, and sure grit. The Yaungal will surive because they will anything to ensure it.


This is all pointless because the Shadow Pan broke them in a few days while fighting the Mantid. They did well against the farmers but when the warriors came they continued to lose all the way back to the steppes.

02/07/2013 05:07 AMPosted by Gandred
Except in Desolace, where you befriend a couple of Centaur tribes and actually go about uniting them.


You should reread that quest they are trying to get one tribe to destroy the others its a ploy.

02/07/2013 05:07 AMPosted by Gandred
When Camp Turajo was raised, Baine's response was to build a big wall, stay behind it, and exile those that wanted revenge. Given he's still the loved leader of the Tauren, I think this is fairly telling about how ferocious they are.


He built a wall and stationed troops there who fought a battle and won.

02/07/2013 05:07 AMPosted by Gandred
The Yaungol took the gate leading into Kun'Lai Summit, IIRC. This is the tallest and thickest wall in the game, and it's manned by a professional army, and the Yaungol were capable of taking it.


Taking the wall is nothing if mountains and oceans can be conquered so can anything built by mortals. The Shadow Pan are scattered all across the wall they may have had 100 men at the North Gate. Greymane Wall is taller and thicker just not as long you can throw a grappling hook on the great wall but the Greymane Wall is far too tall.

You paint the Tauren as peaceful hippies that would lay down and die before fighting but that's far from the truth. When Carine found out what happened to Hamuul Runetotem he flew into a rage and challenged Garrosh to a Mak'gora to the death. His son Bane fought to reclaim Thunderbluff and now is actively building a rebellion to take Garrosh out. Tauren do not shy away from battle and war.
Edited by Ironhorn on 2/7/2013 11:06 PM PST
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90 Orc Warlock
0
02/07/2013 05:07 AMPosted by Gandred
When Camp Turajo was raised, Baine's response was to build a big wall, stay behind it, and exile those that wanted revenge. Given he's still the loved leader of the Tauren, I think this is fairly telling about how ferocious they are.


And yet tauren still fought at Northwatch and Theramore, including Baine. A tauren masterminded the destruction of an entire dwarven keep.

Baine's declaration in ToW (althought it's badly handled, like most of that book) is supposed to illustrate the difference between him and Garrosh - Baine and his people will fight, but Baine doesn't want them flying off the handle to go kill-crazy at the drop of a hat like the orcs do.

Or in the words of the Sniper- "Feelings? Listen mate, know who's got feelings? Blokes what bludgeon their wife t'death with a golf trophy. Professionals have standards. Be polite, be efficient, have a plan to kill everyone you meet."

The Yaungol took the gate leading into Kun'Lai Summit, IIRC. This is the tallest and thickest wall in the game, and it's manned by a professional army, and the Yaungol were capable of taking it.


The quest chain at the Kun'lai gate is all about how the nearby posts are undermanned and borderline lost thanks to corrupted Taran Zhu pulling the Shado-Pan forces back to the monastery. The chain ends with Ban Bearheart rolling up to the gates to demand what the hell is going onn.
Edited by Kurze on 2/7/2013 11:07 PM PST
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58 Undead Death Knight
120
And yet tauren still fought at Northwatch and Theramore, including Baine. A tauren masterminded the destruction of an entire dwarven keep.

Baine's declaration in ToW (althought it's badly handled, like most of that book) is supposed to illustrate the difference between him and Garrosh - Baine and his people will fight, but Baine doesn't want them flying off the handle to go kill-crazy at the drop of a hat like the orcs do.


He had to be urged, by Garrosh, to actually take the fight out of Mulgore. Prior to this there were Alliance parties running around just outside, and he didn't want to retaliate.

The quest chain at the Kun'lai gate is all about how the nearby posts are undermanned and borderline lost thanks to corrupted Taran Zhu pulling the Shado-Pan forces back to the monastery. The chain ends with Ban Bearheart rolling up to the gates to demand what the hell is going onn.


OK? Seems irrelevant to the point I'm making. The Yaungol aren't guerilla fighters that lose every battle to the Shado-Pan and run in fear when faced with actual enemies, which is what I was responding to.
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90 Orc Warlock
0
02/07/2013 11:15 PMPosted by Gandred
He had to be urged, by Garrosh, to actually take the fight out of Mulgore. Prior to this there were Alliance parties running around just outside, and he didn't want to retaliate.


Again, because Tides of War is deluded - tauren in the south barrens were participating in and even leading efforts against the Alliance bases at Honor's Stand and the forward command post, to say nothing of Bael Modan.

(Remember, we're talking about a book where Garrosh literally runs into an explosion and then shows up a chapter later, unscathed, with no explanation. Just check logic at the title page.)

OK? Seems irrelevant to the point I'm making. The Yaungol aren't guerilla fighters that lose every battle to the Shado-Pan and run in fear when faced with actual enemies, which is what I was responding to.


Your post was-

The Yaungol took the gate leading into Kun'Lai Summit, IIRC. This is the tallest and thickest wall in the game, and it's manned by a professional army, and the Yaungol were capable of taking it.


The bolded part was what I was responding to. The gate was virtually unmanned because of Taran Zhu undermining the Shado-Pan, and the yaungol essentially came charging through while it was borderline empty. As soon as the Shado-Pan heroes got their act together the yaungol got their teeth knocked in.
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90 Orc Monk
12230
I'd say that the hardiness that the Taunka have would be a pretty big factor, since they're built Taunka tough.

Though if we're talking post-horde Tauren, then Tauren.
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58 Undead Death Knight
120
Again, because Tides of War is deluded - tauren in the south barrens were participating in and even leading efforts against the Alliance bases at Honor's Stand and the forward command post, to say nothing of Bael Modan.

(Remember, we're talking about a book where Garrosh literally runs into an explosion and then shows up a chapter later, unscathed, with no explanation. Just check logic at the title page.)


Tides of War being a flaming cluster!@#$ of idiocy and poor writing doesn't change that Baine, as the leader of the Tauren, didn't want to respond to the violence and exiled those that did. There's nothing to suggest he's disliked by the general populace, which makes me think the "unbridled ferocity" of the Tauren in the post I initially responded to doesn't exist.

The bolded part was what I was responding to. The gate was virtually unmanned because of Taran Zhu undermining the Shado-Pan, and the yaungol essentially came charging through while it was borderline empty. As soon as the Shado-Pan heroes got their act together the yaungol got their teeth knocked in.


My point was made to show that the Yaungol aren't wimps that run at the sight of resistance. Taking the gate isn't a small feat, even if the Shado-Pan hadn't stacked the place. Again, in the post I initially was responding to, I'm disputing that the Yaungol are solely guerilla fighters that only battle unarmed peasants.
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90 Orc Warlock
10710
With the help of the quilboar it took ten thousand years to drive them to the brink. That is the longest war between mortals in the History of Azeroth.

No,
The Quilboar didn't help the centaurs. They war was with each other. In a similar situation to what the op stated.
Now tell me...
Which race nearly went extinct?

Tauren have adopted much of there tech from the Horde but it has become part of there culture now allowing them to create things like the Great Lift and explosives which are far superior to oil bombs. Tauren have air forces they as they befriended Wyverns years ago.



You mean the bombs the Grimtotem used in the shattering, so you count even enemy tech as your own.
And before you even say itBiane bought his bombs from goblins.

Tauren are not slow to anger to the point one whole tribe had to be destroyed to fight a war. All it took for them to start killing dwarves was them digging on there land they didn't even kill anyone.


One Tuaren
That was all
One
He hatched the plan sense no one else would. His people to happy to forgive and forget.
Their are Tuaren take action, but they not the norm, they are the exception

They turned away from Druidism because they liked Shamanism more they didn't just forget. Tauren remember the hunt of Malorne where they nearly ran down and slew a demigod and that was thousands of years before the War of the Ancients. The tails of the War of the Ancients would not have been forgotten.


They forget because they are a short lived race. Who don 't know how to write things down.
And the Malorne hunt seems to be the only thing they remember.
Maybe it's because they did something that was bad.

Fighting a war on two fronts for ten thousand years is most definitely something to be proud of the barrens tribes were in bad shape but they were still fighting.


They were running, desperate. In the shaman manga it showed that they were so driven to desperation that they tried to raise an island from the sea to escape the marauding centaur, only to have the raising water flood the land. Killing more of them and thier game.

What I am saying is, the Tuaren so conservative in the magic, yet justified a spell that only one other person ever casted.

And the person is Gul'dan, darkness incarnate himself.

And that is desperation, not battle.


This is all pointless because the Shadow Pan broke them in a few days while fighting the Mantid. They did well against the farmers but when the warriors came they continued to lose all the way back to the steppes.


You mean the Demi god players Seriously. No god, no undead, no sha can stand against us, what makes you think the Yuagal can.

You paint the Tauren as peaceful hippies that would lay down and die before fighting but that's far from the truth. When Carine found out what happened to Hamuul Runetotem he flew into a rage and challenged Garrosh to a Mak'gora to the death. His son Bane fought to reclaim Thunderbluff and now is actively building a rebellion to take Garrosh out. Tauren do not shy away from battle and war.


Biane is not building a rebellion. Vol'jin is doing the groundwork. Baine is just their and will probably show up At the last moment.

The truth is, tides of war presented them a light that made the out to be apathetic and cold to the feelings of their own people. Concerned more for the suffering of an enemy, then thier own

Baine gives lip service, and tells people how they should act. Ignoring how they feel.

And that is why they will and should lose a three way war. When a race hold ideas as greater in value then the people they meant to serve. They don't deserve the latter.
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90 Tauren Hunter
11000
No,
The Quilboar didn't help the centaurs. They war was with each other. In a similar situation to what the op stated.
Now tell me...
Which race nearly went extinct?


Not directly but they still fought the Tauren constantly as they always have and Ill have you know the Yaungol are near extinction as well the Mantid and Shado Pan have done in less than a year what it took the Centaur and Quilboar 10,000.

You mean the bombs the Grimtotem used in the shattering, so you count even enemy tech as your own.
And before you even say itBiane bought his bombs from goblins.


As Baine offered the defeated Grimtotem a place with his people if they pledged allegiance to him and gained more than half the living Grimtotems yes they do have access to explosive makers.

One Tuaren
That was all
One
He hatched the plan sense no one else would. His people to happy to forgive and forget.
Their are Tuaren take action, but they not the norm, they are the exception


There are several Dwarf quarries on Tauren land which the Tauren have been fighting with for many years sending young braves to attack the camps.

They forget because they are a short lived race. Who don 't know how to write things down.
And the Malorne hunt seems to be the only thing they remember.
Maybe it's because they did something that was bad.


Tauren were nomadic people since the beginning they wouldn't carry tomes like other races they pass there history though story. The hunting of Malorne is seen as a great epic to the Tauren celebrating there hunting skills they do not feel guilty.

They were running, desperate. In the shaman manga it showed that they were so driven to desperation that they tried to raise an island from the sea to escape the marauding centaur, only to have the raising water flood the land. Killing more of them and thier game.

What I am saying is, the Tuaren so conservative in the magic, yet justified a spell that only one other person ever casted.

And the person is Gul'dan, darkness incarnate himself.

And that is desperation, not battle.


They were losing bad thousands of years of war had taken there toll so they tried to raise a new home but they used nature magic not fel magic like Gul'dan used to raise the Tomb of Sargeras. It was done out of love for ones people and a desire to protect them not selfish hunger for power and Godhood.

02/08/2013 02:46 AMPosted by Chorrol
You mean the Demi god players Seriously. No god, no undead, no sha can stand against us, what makes you think the Yuagal can.


The players are only slightly stronger than average soldiers we only defeat powerful enemies because we attack in force were not individually stronger than a demigod. A hand full of Shadow Pan had already defeated several attacks on the wall before the players even showed up. If the Yaungol were such great warriors they should have stayed and fought the Mantid instead they ran; against a larger force the Yaungol flee no different from the Tauren.

Biane is not building a rebellion. Vol'jin is doing the groundwork. Baine is just their and will probably show up At the last moment.


It was Baine who first laid the seeds of rebellion In Tides of War and has been leading the rebellion back home. Vol'jin is hiding in an Inn healing hes not leading anything at the moment.

02/08/2013 02:46 AMPosted by Chorrol
The truth is, tides of war presented them a light that made the out to be apathetic and cold to the feelings of their own people. Concerned more for the suffering of an enemy, then thier own


Baine did not like what Garrosh did with the dark shaman but held no qualms destroying Northwatch and Fort Triumph he even urges Garrosh to strike Theramore several times before reinforcements arrive. To say Tauren cant be angry and combative is plain wrong you only need to look at the Grimtotem and the civil war they sparked.
Edited by Ironhorn on 2/8/2013 3:46 PM PST
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