DK's can spam chains of ice....

77 Human Warrior
5305
then why cant druid spam roots? and have it be an instant cast? and why cant mages spam frost nova, no cool down?
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55 Goblin Death Knight
4705
It DR's, and it's not a very long duration.

That and it's pretty much all we have.

Also; the snare part or the Chillblains root?
Edited by Jäckßäuer on 2/2/2013 9:13 AM PST
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90 Human Death Knight
0
Why can druids spam shapeshift? And get out of all slows?
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90 Draenei Death Knight
14590
0/10
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90 Human Death Knight
8690
02/02/2013 09:06 AMPosted by Withdrawals
then why cant druid spam roots? and have it be an instant cast? and why cant mages spam frost nova, no cool down?

Runes =/= Mana
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90 Human Death Knight
6630
A frost Death Knight can only cast 4 chains of ice in a row. With out the talent it only acts as our... only slow. Compared to a druid who was 300k mana (60k feral) who have slows plus better mobility and cc who can instantly get out of slows and snares. Oh... and mages can get out of stuns when ever they want with an 12 second or whatever icebound fortitude... it just doesn't reduce damage that is all.
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90 Orc Death Knight
9155
Wow, okay. Let's do this. I'd chalk this up to "trolling" but this thing that people do where they say something asinine and then pop back up and go "HAH! Trolled you!" is honestly embarrassing. I don't care if you're being intentionally wrong, you're still wrong.

One of the least helpful things any one on this forum can do is compare individual tools across very different classes. We've all got our own distinct toolboxes and just because some abilities are similar doesn't mean they're equal.

It's laughable that a druid, of all things, would be jealous of a DK's tools but if you insist we can compare. I'll make the assumption that you're feral - feel free to correct me, but the answers will hold up regardless I imagine.

Resource Cost

Even glyphed, chains of ice is not an effective source of damage. Chains of ice costs one frost (or death rune). Four suitable runes are available if runes are fully charged.

Assuming CoI is being used to close a gap so the DK can get within melee range (you can use CoI to peel, of course but that's an arena thing and if you're in an arena against a DK just tunnel him into the ground) then rune regeneration is going to be greatly impacted because the DK cannot get off frost strikes until they get into melee.

"Spamming" CoI, as such, will quickly run a DK out of usable runes. At this point they will neither be able to spam CoI effectively, nor deal meaningful damage once they reach their target.

A druid on the other hand will expend mana to hardcast their root, or nature's swiftness or predatory swiftness. Mana is negligible. The procs make it free, but there is some opportunity cost. Predatory swiftness can only be used on utility abilities, there is no damage cost.

Run Speed

To have a chains of ice root DKs need to give up a talent. The alternatives are:

Death's Advance:
You passively move 10% faster, and movement-impairing effects may not reduce you below 70% of normal movement speed.


Asphyxiate
Lifts an enemy target off the ground and crushes their throat with dark energy, stunning them for 5 sec. Functions as a silence if the target is immune to stuns.


What you should be reading out of this is that the least mobile, most easily focused class in the game must give up mobility or a CC in order to even do what is described in the OP.

A lot of people take Chillblains anyway - but it is on a very attractive tier for PvP.

Now, assuming we've taken Chillblains, a frost DK's mobility is absolutely horrid. An unholy DK's is slightly better - still not good.

Druids are slippery. And feral's are fast. Slows are comparable between the classes. The need for a root just isn't comparable.

Other Considerations

I'm running out of steam here - but a druid's talent tree is just...fantastic. Big utility, powerful CC options and a great mix of offensive / defensive options.

Cyclone is still going to be useful, even after the nerf. Stealth is powerful, even if yours isn't as good as a rogues.

A DK is much more limited in their CC options. Frost has access to two stuns, one of them removes our ability to root. The other has a long ramp up time that is easily dodged by anyone with a pulse.

I haven't covered but a fraction of the differences between the classes that factor into why we need a "spammable" root and you don't, but I think I've covered enough to make my point and would gladly continue the discussion if you're genuinely interested.

TL:DR

lol
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90 Blood Elf Death Knight
7505
alot of these DK complaint threads seem to be rather ignorant of the fact that we have runes as a resource, and that there are only 6 of them, and that by using them to spam CoI we arent using them for obliterate or HB. Also the fact that chillblains is a talent, and not a baseline effect; and that we lose 2 other good talents (our only stun and our only way of mitigating slows outside of IBF) in order to get it (which actually makes that tree the most balanced as far as "choice" goes IMO). I think that if someone wants to legitimately complain about a class they should play it first, or at least read up on it.
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55 Goblin Death Knight
4705
02/02/2013 10:25 AMPosted by Solution
TL:DR


TL;DR indeed.
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90 Orc Death Knight
9155
I type fast and talk too much. Doesn't really seem to matter what the topic is.
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90 Blood Elf Death Knight
7505
Actually that was a great post Solution, pretty much an expanded and more thorough version of my own (wouldnt have even posted it if i saw ur response 1st). As for being TL;DR, do people know that there are these things called books that exist? And that they actually have pages upon pages of paragraphs within their unholy bodies? OR hell, magazine or internet articles? Movie reviews? Its really not that much reading...
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90 Human Monk
2350
Because you used your nature runes too early in the fight
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90 Human Death Knight
10465
02/02/2013 10:27 AMPosted by Granderne
alot of these DK complaint threads seem to be rather ignorant of the fact that we have runes as a resource, and that there are only 6 of them, and that by using them to spam CoI we arent using them for obliterate or HB. Also the fact that chillblains is a talent, and not a baseline effect; and that we lose 2 other good talents (our only stun and our only way of mitigating slows outside of IBF) in order to get it (which actually makes that tree the most balanced as far as "choice" goes IMO). I think that if someone wants to legitimately complain about a class they should play it first, or at least read up on it.


I've been noticing a few whiners too and it's starting to bug me, which brought me out of lurker mode on a couple posts I was reading recently. It's not like DKs have changed alot, or got any new abilities since cata so why are other classes complaining about us now all of a sudden? I think it is because certain classes finally are being nerfed and brought down to our survivability levels like Ghostcrawler and his team were planning since day one of MOP. Those of us who know how to play our class know of it's benefits and shortcomings but we still stick through it and have fun, other classes need to start doing the same and "deal with it".
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86 Human Death Knight
6125
then why cant druid spam roots? and have it be an instant cast? and why cant mages spam frost nova, no cool down?


You are the 1550 people in this game that are excited for the 5.2 patch. Its a slow not a root...

Delete thread you're just making yourself look like an idiot

0/10
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90 Human Death Knight
5755
02/02/2013 01:01 PMPosted by Unholydoom
alot of these DK complaint threads seem to be rather ignorant of the fact that we have runes as a resource, and that there are only 6 of them, and that by using them to spam CoI we arent using them for obliterate or HB. Also the fact that chillblains is a talent, and not a baseline effect; and that we lose 2 other good talents (our only stun and our only way of mitigating slows outside of IBF) in order to get it (which actually makes that tree the most balanced as far as "choice" goes IMO). I think that if someone wants to legitimately complain about a class they should play it first, or at least read up on it.


I've been noticing a few whiners too and it's starting to bug me, which brought me out of lurker mode on a couple posts I was reading recently. It's not like DKs have changed alot, or got any new abilities since cata so why are other classes complaining about us now all of a sudden? I think it is because certain classes finally are being nerfed and brought down to our survivability levels like Ghostcrawler and his team were planning since day one of MOP. Those of us who know how to play our class know of it's benefits and shortcomings but we still stick through it and have fun, other classes need to start doing the same and "deal with it".


Best part is for 5.2 they're complaining about frost when unholy is sooooooooooo much better. They just see big Oblit crits and get sad, doesn't matter if it's actually killing them or not.
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90 Night Elf Druid
4715
It only slows the enemy down for a few seconds, people cry about every little thing seriously.
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90 Human Warlock
4875
Seriously. I hate these kind of posts. Why don't DK's get blink why can't DKs get cyclone? Just because one class can do it doesn't mean another should! It's not the ability it's the entire aspect of the class and the way the class functions. You have certain skills for different classes because that class uses them well in their style of play Stop getting mad and blaming skills because you lost to somebody better then you.
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90 Orc Death Knight
0
02/02/2013 10:27 AMPosted by Granderne
alot of these DK complaint threads seem to be rather ignorant of the fact that we have runes as a resource, and that there are only 6 of them, and that by using them to spam CoI we arent using them for obliterate or HB.


Truth..
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90 Orc Death Knight
18465
0/10 Nice try
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90 Orc Death Knight
11620
Why can't I cast Penance on my Priest over and over again?
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