Visuals? Really?

90 Gnome Warlock
12620
I wish I knew what flashy was... I'm a shadow priest.

Purple Licorice forever.


Mind Flay is so ugly.
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90 Pandaren Monk
10840
What I find most odd is the underlaying pattern of specs at work.

Most of the time, when I see rogues complain about the leveling process or things not being fun: they're always combat / sub.

Attempting to level a rogue now; about 74 Assassin.
Energy is plentiful, damage is great, survivability is more then enough.

I don't understand what the problem is.

Then I tried sub... finisher juggling sucks. Bad.

Combat? You feel really soft for being the least stealthy of the three specs.

So advice if I could offer it: Assassination is the best.


Yeah I've leveled 3 rogues to ~60 from classic up through cataclysm, and I've always liked assassination for leveling in recent years. Especially since mutilate had it's target requirement removed. I need to level my lowest rogue for mop to try out the new stuff though.
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92 Human Priest
5160
asking for anything substantial this expansion is probably a waste of time.

the rogue playstyle is in a rough spot, in both pve and pvp.

in pve, the playstyle has changed very little since the days of vanilla and has even slowed down with MoP. i think a small shift towards more active damage, plus some spec specific perks (ie more armor/dodge/parry for combat) would go a long way to making the rogue class more appealing. right now each spec feels very similar to the others. so:

-spec perks
-more active damage

as for pvp rogues are in an even rougher spot. since rogue balance is really very binary. either they are good, and everyone else suffers; or they are bad and get rolled over. the direction of each spec needs to be more definitive; or at least the direction of the class needs to be. control, burst, mobility, etc need to be addressed. also it would go a long way if blizz made some more attempts at making sin and combat a better option in pvp. right now you are either sub, or are playing sub optimally.

-clear direction for strengths and weaknesses for each spec
-sin and combat more viable

in the short term visuals will go a long way. don't discount the aesthetic value in gameplay, i suspect a strong correlation between how flashy paladin abilities are and their high population.
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100 Human Warlock
14305
Mind that I'm only lv 74~ish. But basic moveset is...

Stealth -> Garrote (+energy ticks) -> 1 pt slice & dice (hopefully energy return, or proc from garrote) -> mutilate -> mutilate -> dispatch if proced -> (generally 5, sometimes 4) pt envenom.

Then work up to getting a rupture on target because garrote is running out. Overall though the spec flows nicely with Envenom refreshing slice & dice to full on each use (regardless of number of points used on envenom), the proc from mutilate (30%) is enough to be engaging, and if you get even 3 mobs with bleeds rolling you have virtually unlimited energy.

Garrote -> envenom (refresh S&D) -> tab target, FoK (if multi target, mut otherwise) -> rupture -> next target -> mut & envenom -> next target, repeat. As I'm used to multi-dotting this was basically second nature and absurdly effective.

So if the spec is fun, the damage is quite active in procs and activated abilities; what is the problem with 'sins? Low numbers on the charts?
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90 Pandaren Shaman
9330
Honestly, I'm mostly ok with rogue pve. I like simplicity, and I don't think every spec of every class needs to be like bc feral. I did, however, love Cataclysm subtlety, and I wish they would bring that back.

I am one of those people that can't enjoy something in this game unless the aesthetics are right. I've had a rogue for 9 years but I only hit level cap in Wrath, and the reason was because I was playing male night elf and the animations are probably the worst in the game. I switched to female and suddenly my rogue was way more fun.

The class is a blast in pvp, but it really does need some pve spice in the form of juicy animations.

I also think they somehow need to find a way to integrate stealth into boss fights. Shadow dance doesn't really cut it.
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90 Night Elf Druid
6280
Visuals are a start, but the three giant issues with rogues are:

1. Your playstyle.

2. You do nothing for a raid anymore.

3. Your specs are too similar now.

1. You're cheap. Stunlocking is just as bad as chain fearing, only you don't do as much dmg in PVP as a warlock (yet) And since no one likes that playstyle anymore, either playing as that style, or playing against that style, your rep plummeted. In fact, we can contribute the current state of PVP, the CC fest that everyone complains about, to blizzard trying to balance all the specs with rogues in regards to what rogues could do in Cata. Not your fault, but now you're being punished.

2. In a game where every single other spec does something for a raid, you guys sadly sink to the bottom. Sap used to guarantee you guys raid spots, but gone are the ways of CCing mobs. Personally, I think you guys should get another finisher that grants resources to everyone in a 10 yard aoe, or get a 5 min CD that increases everyone resource generation for 30 seconds.

3. This one kind of explains itself, and blizzard hasn't gotten this right yet on the non-caster pures. Hunters need help here as well. For rogues, make the specs feel vastly different. Make combat need bleed/poison damage and stack mastery, make assassination need crit, and make subtley need haste, just so you guys have something to change to. It must be sooooooo boring these days.
Edited by Nexian on 2/4/2013 8:51 PM PST
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100 Orc Shaman
13475
Considering one spec is called SUBTLEty I'd hope it's not flashed up.

Combat maybe.
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100 Undead Rogue
7490
I like shineys
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90 Blood Elf Rogue
9465
They could certainly use some visual shinies.

But the changes I'd like to see are the type that typically come with a new expansion as opposed to a new patch.

Give them the Warlock treatment.
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91 Dwarf Warrior
13795
Remember Ghostly Strike?

Why haven't they reused that visual since removing the ability from the game? The visual was awesome.
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100 Night Elf Rogue
7150
Welp...if this is what you're going to spend development time on, could you at least change the Female Night Elf stealth model so that they're not constantly digging their daggers into their thighs?

If I wanted to be emo, I'd roll a Blood Elf.
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90 Undead Rogue
5570
Some rogue visuals are really dated. I'm sometimes not even sure if I used one of my abilities because the visual is so subtle. I'm not hoping for a purple explosion for a finisher or anything--I just want to have my hard-hitting abilities to have their power match the visual. The biggest culprit for me is envenom, followed by kidney shot. No idea what the hell inspired those animations, lol.

Using rocket boots while stealthed makes me cringe as well. I looks really, really wrong. I miss the gliding stealth...
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60 Orc Rogue
8565
Hi I am Elfmage and I have been playing rogue toons for a long time. I have a couple rogues but this one is the first one I made!

I initially gravitated towards the rogue class because I thought the visual profile of a nimble, skilled swordfighter was appealing. I love sprint, I love vanish, I love smoke bomb. These are flavorful things.

One thing that really bothers me though, which others have mentioned a lot lately, is that all these flavorful things only really exist in the form of cooldowns, while Rogues' core damage-dealing mechanics have become rather homogenized between specs. It's all just auto-attack damage, poison damage, rupture damage, and a tiny bit of combo-builder/evis/envenom damage.

I'd like to compare Rogue specs to Mage specs for a moment (PVE) because the Mage class has always sort of felt like the ranged counterpart to Rogues. Each of the Mage specs relies on fundamentally different mechanics. Fire is the crit spec, and it has several unique mechanics and tools that allow the player to activate the spec's full potential. Arcane has the ramp-up mechanics of arcane charges, and relies on maintaining a balance between resources and burst damage. Frost is the haste (?) and proc-dependent spec (I'll admit I've never tried frost in PVE). Each of those specs is visibly and mechanically distinct from one another.

Meanwhile, Rogues are mechanically homogenized for PVE between all three specs. Pretty much all three specs have the same flow, use the same finishers, and they all look the same. If the developers had a more clearly defined flavor for each spec, and stuck with say: DeadlyPoisons/Physicals/Bleeds (Assassination/Combat/Subtelty), then I truly believe they'd be able to diversify Rogues a bit and find some nifty animations to go along with the new mechanics.

That's my opinion on the matter anyway.
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90 Blood Elf Rogue
5490
I'll be honest. If Blizz improved the visuals of rogues I'd be extremely happy. I like the rogue playstyle, but the fact that so many attacks look the same gets boring fast. I think it would be a step in the right direction, we don't need &$&&Y&@FLASHYYY*$&&@ spells, just something that gives us a bit more character
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90 Human Paladin
14125
They made Rogues over powered in 4.3. Those legendary weapons did the trick. The truth is people won't play a Rogue unless they're over powered. Take that away and people went to another class. That's what happened in MOP.

Flashy and fun mechanics are the only way to go.
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99 Night Elf Druid
15730
02/04/2013 08:51 PMPosted by Nexian
Sap used to guarantee you guys raid spots


What? The last raid where you could use Sap (and it mattered) was UBRS...
Edited by Resonance on 2/11/2013 12:38 PM PST
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90 Night Elf Monk
7830
These are some changes that would make me interested in rogues again:

-Get rid of slice and dice already, and while you're at it get rid of feral's savage roar too. Adjust the lost damage into other active abilities. One less source of passive damage, and more satisfying hits from special abilities.

-Make the specs -feel- different. It seems like they are all the same anymore, just changing whatever combo-generator you spam and a few cooldowns. The specs had differences back in the day, emphasize them! Assassin with poison dots and big crit finishers, Subtelty with improved stealth and utility/control, and Combat with strong sustained damage and improved avoidance.

-Visuals. I am middle-of-the-road on this one. I love my monk's flashy moves, and would be a complete liar if I said it wasn't part of why I play the class. But I don't think rogues should be flashy. Give them a new attack animation or two, and add more vibrant blood and poison splotches from their special attacks.

-Energy regen. This is the ultimate killer for me on rogues and ferals, and is the MAIN reason I love my monk. I am very impatient, I don't like waiting on that energy bar to fill. My monk is nearly GCD capped, and it makes the dps feel more urgent. Not sure what the fix is on this, I actually think they should get something like hunter's steady shot. It would hit like a wet noodle (see monk's jab for chi generation), but it would give something to do during energy starved moments.

-Ranger spec. (ranged bow spec) Someone else mentioned this earlier in the thread, and I would pee myself and reroll rogue immediately if Blizzard did that. lol
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90 Human Paladin
5780
Subrosian has it right. Ret pally is the most popular dps spec in the game. Tied in most popular period with resto Druid. Wanna know why? We have zazz! All our spells look crazy and epic. We have a spiny Star Wars lightsaber type move. WHO DOESN'T WANNA SPIN, SWING, AND STILL HIT THEIR GOD DAMN TARGET?! Then release golden hammers swirling around the target? Sign me up!(though none of this is why I personally chose to play ret, even tho it does make it more fun and I don't get bored with it like I do other classes.) Call a hammer(or axe or sword if glyphed) from the sky? Holy fire effect(again if glyphed) on crits? YES PLEASE! We get wings, the ashbringer, and a cool !@# untargetable minion who yells and glows in gold. Who doesn't want that? Druids are the same, but they get Crazy armor, treants, a tree, a cat, bear, seal thing, orca, bird, elk, and cheetah, all their spells have good green colors flashing everywhere and $%^-... Visuals make a difference. I don't wanna play a class that has nothing but auto attack looking moves. And no me gusta casters :<
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