Where do you think it went wrong in Cata/MOP?

90 Dwarf Warrior
16335
My god, the level of rage and anger and fury over a video game... I love the story too, but DAMN, people... Lighten up, take a step back, and get some much-needed perspective on things. Even if it means canceling your account for a month or two.
Edited by Vegdrasil on 2/7/2013 10:15 AM PST
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90 Human Death Knight
13050
02/07/2013 10:08 AMPosted by Lorthuron
Don't bother. Even long posts can have irrationality. Considering how she called me out on a thread I DID NOT even attend at all.


Well to be fair she's not the only one being irrational in this thread. Even people that are saying "No, Blizzard is doing a fine job with the story calm down" are being irrational about it.
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Well to be fair she's not the only one being irrational in this thread.


Explain, please.
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90 Human Warrior
13525
Don't bother. Even long posts can have irrationality. Considering how she called me out on a thread I DID NOT even attend at all.


Well to be fair she's not the only one being irrational in this thread. Even people that are saying "No, Blizzard is doing a fine job with the story calm down" are being irrational about it.


I didn't even enter the thread until later :(

Explain, please.


The post speaks for itself. It's full of anger and rage. Though not surprising coming from her. I can understand frusterations but sheesh take a load off.
Edited by Lorthuron on 2/7/2013 10:25 AM PST
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90 Human Death Knight
13050
02/07/2013 10:20 AMPosted by Tesseae
Explain, please.


What exactly is there to explain?

One person says it's stupid for people to expect one faction to win over another one, then another person comes and explains why people expect that, then the other person starts defending Blizzard's direction with a story and goes into 30+ paragraphs explaining why, then another person comes in and attacks both the post and other people. It's just frustrating opinions piled on top of more frustrated opinions.

I wholeheartedly understand why people hate the story right now and why the direction of it is so unsatisfying. I guess I can also say I understand why other people are annoyed by those people. But the sheer absurdity with how these arguments are made is what makes both of them equally annoying.
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02/07/2013 10:32 AMPosted by Grimtale
But the sheer absurdity with how these arguments are made is what makes both of them equally annoying.


Fair enough.

However, the problem is that much of the stuff that is ranted about is legitimate; brushing it aside as 'irrational' or whatever word you want to use is unfair.
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90 Human Death Knight
13050
02/07/2013 10:45 AMPosted by Tesseae
However, the problem is that much of the stuff that is ranted about is legitimate


Which is why I understand that and said I did. Even I've posted some very ranty stuff in other threads.

02/07/2013 10:45 AMPosted by Tesseae
brushing it aside as 'irrational' or whatever word you want to use is unfair.


To make this less confusing, it's not the viewpoint I find irrational but the way in which the viewpoint is stated. There is indeed an understanding to what others post, but it gets muddled by spite. (And I won't claim to be a saint in this regard, far from it, but it's what I recognize to be a problem with where threads tend to go.)
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90 Human Warrior
13525
Thanks for calling me out Sardana. -_- Don't call me out. Period. You don't see me calling out Kyalin "SHE'S A BABY NIGHT ELF WHO NEEDS TO BE CUDDLED BY MALFURION SO SHE CAN BE QUIET."

No...Don't attack me. I haven't even bothered debated much Alliance Horde politics often. I'm tired of it and I don't feel like debating much if I'm going to be called out cause Elrith is on the same side as I am but with a bit more passion.

Btw Elrith nice post.


The only poster I mentioned by name was Valius.

If you posted something that seemed to be referenced by my angry rant, than it was really coincidental. But then, if you are "on the same side as Elrith" by your own words, then I guess you got called out by proximity.

Hahaha. Wait a second. ARE you Valius? On another toon? If so, consider it a backhanded compliment; your opinions on loving Blizzard and white knights are so well known here that you don't need to be in a thread. All involved know what you would say just by reputation. Isn't that impressive? But why post on two different characters? Be proud of your story forum celebrity.


I post on the character I'm using most. I switch often. Even then I do not approve of calling people out. I didn't even look at this whole thread at all. I ignored it and I go and check it out and what do you know you call me out. Until you learn to calm down and not say my *White Knight* status in a condescending manner(I am no saint either but still) please avoid spite and anger about your *criticisms* about Blizzard.

All in all you need to chill out. I am.
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90 Draenei Paladin
8565
02/05/2013 09:40 PMPosted by Sofa
I really wish the Worgen had become vengeful Alliance shock troops, on the front lines doing the missions that others were either physically incapable of or perhaps morally incapable of. It would be nice to have a faction that maybe Varian WRynn turns a blind eye to because he likes the results. They could have made the Alliance far mroe complex but instead were given short shrift.


That would have been cool to see.
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90 Night Elf Rogue
8210
I generally don't like seeing the word "irrational" being thrown around at all. It's typically a word reserved for people who see an argument that they disagree with, but aren't able to defeat logically. So instead of attempting to explain why the person is wrong, they just state that the other person is wrong as though it were a fact.

Unfortunately, Valius, you are guilty of this sort of argumentation. You need to work on explaining the logic behind your positions instead of sticking a label on something and calling it done. You've gotten better, but it still pops up from time to time.

Now, Elrith did make a careful, well written post, and he should be applauded for that, but his argument seems to weigh equivalence against the meaning and experience of the story. I could get that if I felt like the Alliance was getting something meaningful out of these losses, but we're not. Let me address this in particular:

What is wrong with an era of ever building bleakness and hopelessness in a story if it's working towards something?


This is an area where I agree with Cbread: the payoff is pathetic, and nothing has really changed about the Alliance. We're going to bite the lizard's tail off (to borrow a clever metaphor for which I have Millenia to thank) and the Horde's just going to be all better. It's really a journey of self-discovery for the Horde, and a chance for their other leaders to really make their mark as characters. As for the Alliance? Well, let me put it this way: the sun didn't get any character development when it roasted off Icarus's wings. Given that we hold that same static position, neither will we.

In fact, it's worse for us. Blizzard has decided that in order to save time that they need for the Horde's story, that they're going to throw aside any development for any races other than the Humans, going so far as to create "A little patience" just to throw out the idea that the Night Elves are ever going to be a player in the Alliance - which has the side benefit of telling Night Elf fans to shut up and get in line. If I'm wrong, I'm not sure how they realistically thought that was going to go over, but this is yet another example of the same general problem that we saw in cata: This is still the Horde's story, and the Horde's story alone.
Edited by Kyalin on 2/7/2013 1:25 PM PST
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90 Human Death Knight
13050
WoW Lite - play as the generic Alliance as they try and not all be killed while at the same time upholding the universal good christian virtues of their faction. Stymie your opponents as the bog-standard humans, the shorter humans, the shortest humans, the purple humans or the furry humans. Also maybe space goats, we forget. Warcry: "I forgive you; you're the real victims here. I'm really very sorry. Can't we all just get along?"


Yeah, I do have to admit that the Alliance races are probably the least creative of Blizzard's work. Draenei and Worgen are the only real unique races, and Night Elves are close just by being a "nicer" depiction of Dark Elves.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
13215
There can be:
WoW Premium - play the mighty Horde as they try and balance their natural ability to conquer all around them with a semi-heartfelt desire to be honorable. Crush your opponents and play exciting races like the trolls and orcs and bloodelves as they struggle for dominance and explore what it means to be a part of the Horde! Warcry: "Loktar'ogar!" (victory or death)

WoW Lite - play as the generic Alliance as they try and not all be killed while at the same time upholding the universal good christian virtues of their faction. Stymie your opponents as the bog-standard humans, the shorter humans, the shortest humans, the purple humans or the furry humans. Also maybe space goats, we forget. Warcry: "I forgive you; you're the real victims here. I'm really very sorry. Can't we all just get along?"

We'd probably still have to pay to raid, but I honestly wouldn't complain if the above was the case. At least it would be honest.


There's solution three, which is better suited for you:

Quit WoW: Just stahp. You're done. There are better things to be angry at, and it's not at a story you have no control over. If it's gotten that bad for you, quit.
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90 Blood Elf Warlock
9500
Honestly, I've never been too concerned about how 'unique' a given race feels. WoW simply uses established races -- we all know what dwarves, gnomes, and elves are, don't we? -- as shorthand to reduce the learning curve and make the setting more accessible to new players. That's a business decision more than a creative one. Not much would be added to the game if suddenly the night elves vanished and we got the Tiste Andii in their place. Although Tyrande being able to turn into a giant dragon and eat people would be pretty hilarious.

I'm more concerned with how those races are utilized than what their name is or how original they are. Unfortunately, WoW has too much content to juggle and too few people to make it work equally. So some races are well utilized and others aren't. And the same can be said of the factions in general, both playable and otherwise.

02/07/2013 01:48 PMPosted by Grimtale
Yeah, I do have to admit that the Alliance races are probably the least creative of Blizzard's work. Draenei and Worgen are the only real unique races, and Night Elves are close just by being a "nicer" depiction of Dark Elves.


The Worgen are werewolves that have control over their ability to shift form (rather than being directly enslaved to the lunar cycle like most werewolves in Western lore). There's really nothing at all about them that's unique. Draenei are a bit more unique. They're pretty rife with tropes, but their fairly unique.
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90 Human Death Knight
13050
02/07/2013 02:11 PMPosted by Zylivos
There's really nothing at all about them that's unique.


Why? How many games have you recently played that have actually featured playable werewolves? (All I can think of is Skyrim, and they're not even that great.)

It's along the same lines as playable zombies, it's adding traditional horror monsters to a high fantasy game. It has its own charm and appeal, and is fairly unique in its own right.
Edited by Grimtale on 2/7/2013 2:20 PM PST
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
13215
02/07/2013 01:48 PMPosted by Grimtale
Yeah, I do have to admit that the Alliance races are probably the least creative of Blizzard's work. Draenei and Worgen are the only real unique races, and Night Elves are close just by being a "nicer" depiction of Dark Elves.


It should be noted that the Elder Scrolls games have at least 3-4 different races of human.
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02/07/2013 02:19 PMPosted by Grimtale
There's really nothing at all about them that's unique.


Why? How many games have you recently played that have actually featured playable werewolves? (All I can think of is Skyrim, and they're not even that great.)

It's along the same lines as playable zombies, it's adding traditional horror monsters to a high fantasy game. It has its own charm and appeal, and is fairly unique in its own right.


Do tabletop games count?
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90 Human Death Knight
13050
02/07/2013 02:29 PMPosted by Rhonwen
Do tabletop games count?


I guess, but I'm more talking about video games.
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