The issue of Beast Slaying and 5.2

92 Undead Mage
8465
Personally I've never really cared to much about min/maxing by playing a specific race (hence.. Belf) but I can see where this racial can be too strong. Racials like Beserker are definitely powerful, but with it only lasting 10 seconds every two minutes, it's extra dps output is not that high. A 5% damage buff for a whole 10 minute boss fight on the other hand....

.. there he was.

Just standing there.

Regenerating 5, health,per second.

I glared at the Troll.

The Troll glared back at me.

Silence flooded the world.

"And there's nothing you can do about it," the Troll whispered.

This made me lol pretty hard.
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100 Night Elf Priest
17055
Okay, but you don't make a mention about all the tiers that DON'T have a lot of beast bosses?

Doesn't that strike you are a bit bias?


Boss DPS requirements have never been and never will be balanced around the 5% troll racial. It has always been "icing on the cake" for trolls, Berserking being their actual DPS-increasing racial. Now if other races had increased damage to Humanoids or Undead (or any other monster type), then I could understand an argument, but those racials don't exist.

Even without the boss being a beast, Horde racials are still slightly better than Alliance racials. A boss being beast-type just gives Trolls a free 5% increased DPS.
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90 Dwarf Hunter
16315
Okay, but you don't make a mention about all the tiers that DON'T have a lot of beast bosses?

Doesn't that strike you are a bit bias?


Boss DPS requirements have never been and never will be balanced around the 5% troll racial. It has always been "icing on the cake" for trolls, Berserking being their actual DPS-increasing racial. Now if other races had increased damage to Humanoids or Undead (or any other monster type), then I could understand an argument, but those racials don't exist.

Even without the boss being a beast, Horde racials are still slightly better than Alliance racials. A boss being beast-type just gives Trolls a free 5% increased DPS.


Kinda this. Trolls already have strong enough racials without Beast Slaying. The 1% Expertise for Hunters is already great and Berserking can be a large gain if properly timed. The 5% gain to Beast bosses used to not really be an issue, but a 5% gain at this level of gear is actually a pretty significant impact and equates to a tier bonus or higher tier weapon for physical classes.
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90 Worgen Warlock
9700
Bump. Racials are an obvious issue that need balancing. In PvE enviroments, almost always Horde guilds come out on top (9/10 of the top 10 guilds are horde). In PvP enviroment, Alliance comes out on top.

Please do something to balance these racials so one doesn't feel like they NEED to switch races/factions in order to be super competitive.
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90 Troll Mage
18105
SSSSSSSSHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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90 Undead Warlock
13800
Alliance have Every Man For Himself, once that is evened out we can talk.
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90 Undead Warlock
13800
also:
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From WoWhead
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92 Human Priest
5160
02/06/2013 02:25 PMPosted by Methalos
Alliance have Every Man For Himself, once that is evened out we can talk.


this thread is targeted at PVE. as far as PVE goes EMFH has very little use.

the OP brings up a very valid complaint. when the guilds at the tip top of progression are competing for server/world firsts a 5% increase can mean the difference between hitting an enrage timer or downing the boss.

earlier in the thread i asked if it has been confirmed if there is a DPS check boss, and if so which one. i ask this because it is common for a DPS check to be in the first half of a raid tier, while the later bosses have unusual mechanics that require coordination.

some people might argue that since the final boss isn't a beast that it shouldn't matter. however, downing an earlier boss days or weeks quicker means more attempts at later bosses.
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90 Undead Warlock
13800
If you want the rest of the story, it is a short and entertaining read

.. there he was.

Just standing there.

Regenerating 5, health,per second.

I glared at the Troll.

The Troll glared back at me.

Silence flooded the world.

"And there's nothing you can do about it," the Troll whispered.


So, as you all know, I play a Shaman. I'm currently the best geared Shaman in the world and I have multiple world DPS records on WowMeterOnline. So I go into this Battleground because I feel like gracing my battlegroup with my presence, right? Everyone is cheering as I enter. They don't bother putting down a mage table or healthstone because they know that they're not going to need it--I, the Darkness, has come.

So I cast Lightning Shield on myself, because that's what Shamans do. They call down MOTES OF ELECTRICITY FROM THE HEAVENS and they SURROUND THEMSELVES with DEADLY AMOUNTS OF LIGHTNING! All of my teammates are instantly electrocuted to death, but me? I merely bathe in the energy; it is my plaything. Even though my teammates are now charred corpses, they continue to cheer, because they know that I can solo this. The gates open. I run in. With Ghost Wolf, my movement speed is increased by

40% PERCENT

Horde sees me run by but they can't do anything about it because I'm a ghost and I'm wolfing at

40 PERCENT

a Blood Elf Paladin with Crusader Aura on bubbles and flees in terror when he sees me traveling at

40 PERCENT

They can hear the howl of my ghost wolf. They are all cowering--no, literally, they type the /cower emote and just stand there--as I cap the Stables. I cast WATERWALKING on myself--WATERWALKING, like Jesus, and I careen towards the Blacksmith. The Horde there see me coming and they just /afk the !@#$ out. I put down my totems before I start capping Blacksmith's flag. A Rogue tries to sap me--

BAM!

The Rogue is engulfed in flame as my Searing Totem SEARS him from the inside out! His leather clothing EXPLODES in a rain of fire that spirals around my beautiful female Draenei form as I continue to cap the Blacksmith. The fire rips through the Rogue's bones, but it doesn't even consider touching me--why? Because I've got

FIRE RESIST TOTEM

A Warlock swoops in in Demon Form and tries to Conflag me but his Conflag does 0 damage to me because of

FIRE RESIST TOTEM

A Troll Mage Slowfalls in and he Pyroblasts me but it is ineffective because of

FIRE RESIST TOTEM

Blacksmith caps. I mount up on my KAEL'THAS MOUNT--no, literally, I ride Kael'thas around, the Blood Elf--and head over to Farm, because I feel like eating some potatoes.

POTATOES. BOIL 'EM, MASH 'EM, STICK 'EM IN A STEW. AND HEARTS. SHAMAN DESIRES PALADIN HEARRRRRRRTS.

Just then, I see something through my Sentry Totem. It's the WoW General Forums! --People are complaining about how overpowered I am! They're saying that Shamans need to be nerfed. I smirk.

That's when I decide to take out my HAND OF RAGNAROS.

EIGHTY POINT FOUR DAMAGE PER SECONNNNND

I slam the Hand of Ragnaros down into the ground. Arathi Basin shatters like glass--the ground falls out from under me. The fabric of SPACE itself CRUMBLES beneath my feet. I cackle as I enter the REAL REALM, becoming a TRUE ENTITY existing ON THE PLANET EARTH. I am a Draenei walking around New York--the cops try to stop me, but they forget all about me when they take a gander at my

STONECLAW TOTEM

STONE AND CLAW COMBINED. CAN YOU TAKE IT?

But then, in the spaces between the gathering crowds, I see something. Someone. The smirk on my face deteriorates. .. it's one of the Horde. A Troll.

I thought I had destroyed Arathi Basin. I thought I had won the Battleground. But all that time--

--But all that time--...

.. there he was. Just standing there. Regenerating 5, health,

per

second.

I glared at the Troll.

The Troll glared back at me.

Silence flooded the world.

"And there's nothing you can do about it," the Troll whispered.
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90 Night Elf Priest
13860
I'm all for a very thorough pass on racials.

Give nelfs a proper DPS racial plox!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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90 Undead Warlock
13800
The damage bonus is a negligible amount of total raid DPS. At most it can up the raids DPS by 5% IF everyone is a Troll and only on those 4 bosses.

In all probability it will be around a 1% total raid DPS increase.

Also not sure why anyone cares who gets World firsts...is it about faction pride?
Edited by Methalos on 2/6/2013 3:45 PM PST
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Ya good thing there's a 5% bonus passive everyone else got this teir against humanoids....

..........oh wait
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90 Orc Death Knight
9155
02/06/2013 03:45 PMPosted by Methalos
Also not sure why anyone cares who gets World firsts...is it about faction pride?


It's the closest thing to an E-sport that this game currently has. Many top guilds have sponsors, which is why it's not really a huge thing for them to faction / server transfer to exploit some strengths.

A flat 5% DPS boost isn't negligible. Especially not if people end up stuck on one of these beast bosses for progression. Even a 1% swing (although I'd argue it to be higher) would easily speed your progression.
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90 Dwarf Hunter
16315
Also not sure why anyone cares who gets World firsts...is it about faction pride?


It's the closest thing to an E-sport that this game currently has. Many top guilds have sponsors, which is why it's not really a huge thing for them to faction / server transfer to exploit some strengths.

A flat 5% DPS boost isn't negligible. Especially not if people end up stuck on one of these beast bosses for progression. Even a 1% swing (although I'd argue it to be higher) would easily speed your progression.


A flat 5% DPS boost also gets more and more potent as DPS numbers get larger due to stat and ilvl inflation...
Edited by Bullettime on 2/6/2013 4:07 PM PST
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90 Undead Warlock
13800
02/06/2013 04:03 PMPosted by Solution
Also not sure why anyone cares who gets World firsts...is it about faction pride?


It's the closest thing to an E-sport that this game currently has.


Really? I thought Arena was.
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100 Troll Mage
17020
02/06/2013 04:03 PMPosted by Solution
Even a 1% swing (although I'd argue it to be higher) would easily speed your progression.


It will probably be around 1% +/-.5% per troll in a dps position I would imagine for the total raid dps on average on a fight that has 2 tanks and 3 healers. The percentage decreases for every additional dps. The +/-.5% is to factor in the possibility of a tank/healer dpsing and being a troll (this is just a rough estimation). But their dps is fairly negligible for the entire raid, typically.

The 1% is based off of 5 dps and one of them being a troll thus 1/5 of the raid is increased by 5% so 1%.

Another factor that would need to be considered would be how much percentage of total damage done is done by the specific player.

For example I typically am the highest dps in my group based on our class comp. So me being a troll would increase our raid dps by more than 1%.

Lets say heroic elegon was affected by beast slaying. And using my log of the kill this past week. http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-kwgvuvlisntvom5p/sum/damageDone/?s=1153&e=1604

I am the only troll and did 17.77% of the total damage, 81908489 out 460881738. The increase would put me at 86003913.45 out of 464977162.5. Then comparing the raid dps its a .8886% increase for my raid. So even with me being the top dps by about 2.5% and having 28k dps more than the 2nd highest person in the raid it was still only a .88% increase. The effect would be increased by a greater amount if we 3 healed it but just by a bit so it would probably equal around a 1% increase for raid damage per troll. If I was not a troll and the lowest dps was then it would be a .5202% increase raid damage wise using the same method.

So its a 5% increase max but probably around 1% per troll dps give or take .5% to take into account what ranking that player actually is on the meters before hand.

I completely agree that it doesn't need to be there but at the same time its not that OP especially if those fights are not giant dps checks.
Edited by Hiroran on 2/6/2013 9:07 PM PST
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90 Undead Warlock
13800
Really, where does it end tho? It could be argued that any menial amount is the difference between a 1% wipe and killing the boss.
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