The issue of Beast Slaying and 5.2

90 Gnome Mage
15265
The issue is that Beast slaying is a 5% dps increase racial when all other racials are in the vicinity of 1%.

And in top-end raiding guilds probably half of the dps are trolls, Hiroran - that's a much more realistic composition than 1 out of every 5.
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90 Troll Mage
15740
02/06/2013 09:56 PMPosted by Napwneon
And in top-end raiding guilds probably half of the dps are trolls, Hiroran - that's a much more realistic composition than 1 out of every 5.


Unless you have some source to cite then thats pure speculation. My math is still accurate though, as I stated multiple times "per person who is a troll" In order to get the maximum 5% they would need all dps, tanks, heals to be a troll. For each one that isn't a troll then the total percentage is lowered.
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90 Dwarf Hunter
16860
02/06/2013 10:03 PMPosted by Hiroran
And in top-end raiding guilds probably half of the dps are trolls, Hiroran - that's a much more realistic composition than 1 out of every 5.


Unless you have some source to cite then thats pure speculation. My math is still accurate though, as I stated multiple times "per person who is a troll" In order to get the maximum 5% they would need all dps, tanks, heals to be a troll. For each one that isn't a troll then the total percentage is lowered.

Does that matter? A 5% buff to all damage on top of already being one of the two absolute best races for dps is overkill. I never really understood why they kept that racial. It needs to have limitations, 5% more damage for only one race (which also means for only one faction) on multiple fights is just to much.

Racials seem to be getting out of hand faster and faster. All top end raiding guilds are already horde because of their vastly superior PvE racials. Something needs to be done.
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90 Troll Mage
15740
02/06/2013 10:07 PMPosted by Spinnerdh
Does that matter?


Yes it does matter... If the math isn't there to support anything then it doesn't need to be changed.

Like I said already, I am all for it being neutralized or nerfed or something. But at the same time getting worked up about it isn't that big of a deal.

02/06/2013 10:07 PMPosted by Spinnerdh
Racials seem to be getting out of hand faster and faster. All top end raiding guilds are already horde because of their vastly superior PvE racials. Something needs to be done.


And by the same hand the human racial should be changed or other brought up to it. This goes both ways
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90 Troll Druid
7405
02/06/2013 10:07 PMPosted by Spinnerdh
because of their vastly superior PvE racials


If your definition of vastly superior means ~1% or so better, than yeah.

And looking at the top guilds doesn't prove anything at all. These are highly competitive guilds that would make race changes even if the net gain were 0.001% dps, because of the fact that it's a dps gain at all.

Pointing at Berserking and Blood Fury and crying foul with something like EMFH still around is mind-numbingly ludicrous. Your concern about Beast Slaying is valid. Your complaints about every Horde racial besides that are not.
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90 Human Warlock
9145
Most. Hilarious. Topic. In awhile.
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90 Human Warlock
9145
Nah horde do cuz w/ beast slaying they can kill the chain pets of kfc teams easier.
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90 Troll Druid
7405
02/06/2013 11:33 PMPosted by Alldaykid
Nah horde do cuz w/ beast slaying they can kill the chain pets of kfc teams easier.


I think you're missing the whole point of the thread. But while you brought up beast slaying efc, I'd like to take this moment to confirm that Beast slaying does indeed work on kitty druids/guardian efcs in form.
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90 Human Warlock
9145
Actually I didn't, I find this entire thread hilarious and ridiculous, of all the things to complain about and wanted to add to it. Also, kfc not efc.
Edited by Alldaykid on 2/6/2013 11:47 PM PST
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90 Troll Druid
7405
02/06/2013 11:45 PMPosted by Alldaykid
Also, kfc not efc.


10/10. You made my day.
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90 Orc Death Knight
9155


It's the closest thing to an E-sport that this game currently has.


Really? I thought Arena was.


Not unless we just traveled back in time to The Burning Crusade. I'm not going to pretend that WoW tournaments don't exist (Blizzard hosts some, after all) nor will I say that there aren't sponsored PvP players (though I have little knowledge of this subject these days) but it was dropped from MLG due to poor balancing a long while back.

I, perhaps, overstated my point when I said it was the closest thing WoW has to an esport and don't really care to look into it further to support my argument.

My point was that people care for the same reason anyone cares about e-sports. I don't understand it, but people do care enough to throw money into the equation.

So its a 5% increase max but probably around 1% per troll dps give or take .5% to take into account what ranking that player actually is on the meters before hand.

I completely agree that it doesn't need to be there but at the same time its not that OP especially if those fights are not giant dps checks.


Good information, and I completely agree that a lot of this argument stems around many things which may not actually be the case. My only issue is that this is even a matter that warrants discussion. Beast Slaying is too large of a bonus for tightly tuned content.

Whether or not it is about to become a problem is impossible for us to predict but it warrants some consideration either way.
Edited by Solution on 2/7/2013 9:34 AM PST
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90 Troll Hunter
11370
WoW isn't an esport game, go play a MOBA.

Don't know how this thread went from PVE racial imbalances to arena nonsense anyways.
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90 Gnome Mage
15265
Yup. As I've said before, I'm only focusing this issue specifically on the imbalance of Troll Beast Slaying in top-end raiding guilds in 5.2, and nothing else. There really are better places to talk about other racial abilities for pvp use.
Edited by Napwneon on 2/7/2013 12:19 AM PST
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90 Dwarf Hunter
16860
Yes it does matter... If the math isn't there to support anything then it doesn't need to be changed.

Like I said already, I am all for it being neutralized or nerfed or something. But at the same time getting worked up about it isn't that big of a deal.

The math? The math says that 5% more damage means that the troll will be dealing 5% more damage.

02/06/2013 10:12 PMPosted by Hiroran
And by the same hand the human racial should be changed or other brought up to it. This goes both ways

Sure, it goes both ways... except that EMFH is the only racial that causes players to actually roll alliance, meanwhile almost if not all horde racials are superior to all other alliance racials in PvP and the horde has a much more ridiculous advantage in PvE because of their racials than EMFH gives to the alliance in PvP.

EMFH is whined about all the time, but people forget it is only one racials. Many top arena players play horde, it can be somewhat viewed as being balanced. Meanwhile the grand majority of top end raiding guilds are horde because of their superior racials. Claiming that they balance out is ignorant.

02/06/2013 10:40 PMPosted by Velaniz
because of their vastly superior PvE racials


If your definition of vastly superior means ~1% or so better, than yeah.

And looking at the top guilds doesn't prove anything at all. These are highly competitive guilds that would make race changes even if the net gain were 0.001% dps, because of the fact that it's a dps gain at all.

Pointing at Berserking and Blood Fury and crying foul with something like EMFH still around is mind-numbingly ludicrous. Your concern about Beast Slaying is valid. Your complaints about every Horde racial besides that are not.

Read the stuff I just wrote. Horde like whining about EMFH, which might be considered valid if they didn't hold the next 5 or 6 best PvP racials on their side while also holding the top 3 or 4 PvE racials as well.

You can talk however much you want about 1%, doesn't change the fact that the horde have a much greater advantage when it comes to PvE racials than alliance does when it comes to PvP racials. Top arena teams are mixed between alliance and horde at the top ranks while top raiding guilds are dominated by horde at the top ranks, if you somehow think that EMFH is so overpowered then the hordes dominance over PvE racials is even more so.

02/07/2013 12:19 AMPosted by Napwneon
Yup. As I've said before, I'm only focusing this issue specifically on the imbalance of Troll Beast Slaying in top-end raiding guilds in 5.2, and nothing else. There really are better places to talk about other racial abilities for pvp use.

Agreed, but no use in ignoring the faulty arguments people make in response.

The beast slaying racial will cause a relatively significant impact on this upcoming tier's raids, compared to other PvE racials. Something needs to be done about it, I can sort of understand wanting the racial to have its "Moment to shine" but it isn't worth granting a specific race such a large advantage.
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90 Troll Mage
15740
02/07/2013 12:47 AMPosted by Spinnerdh
The math? The math says that 5% more damage means that the troll will be dealing 5% more damage.


Yes the math of how it does in comparison to the raid damage in regards to downing a boss. If you are getting sub 1%-5% (depending on how many trolls you have) it will help on fights that we dont even know if they are dps checks right now. They could be like feng this tier where its pretty much all mechanics and hardly any type of dps check.

02/07/2013 12:47 AMPosted by Spinnerdh
Agreed, but no use in ignoring the faulty arguments people make in response.


If people say that horde have too strong of racials it only makes sense to point out how its not so black and white...

the moment people start talking about horde racials instead of just beastslaying is the moment that the convo gets opened up to include alliance racials as well.
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90 Troll Hunter
14735
02/07/2013 12:47 AMPosted by Spinnerdh
The beast slaying racial will cause a relatively significant impact on this upcoming tier's raids, compared to other PvE racials. Something needs to be done about it, I can sort of understand wanting the racial to have its "Moment to shine" but it isn't worth granting a specific race such a large advantage.

No arguments there, but I do take issue with the idea of simply disabling the racial vs raid bosses. At that point, it is only good for trash, farming, and questing, and in those scenarios, it isn't like even a decent portion really benefits from the extra damage, just makes things that die in 4 seconds, die in 3.5 seconds.

Personally, I would replace it with a more defensive orientated racial. I.e. - Reduces damage taken by DOT effects by 1%. It is similar to the many school specific resistance racials (1% damage reduction), but applies to a type of attack, rather than a specific spell school. It plays into the trolls regenerative abilities without actually increasing the regen racial.
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24 Tauren Druid
10320
EMFH is not so good that it trumps or balances out the fact that the horde have a clear advantage in pve racials, and after EMFH, have the superior pvp ones as well. So yeah it kind of is black and white. Besides top pvpers are pretty well mixed between horde and alliance, so while human is the best pvp choice, it's not effecting faction balance at the top.

I always did think it was weird that top-end raiding somehow trumped competitive pvp, in terms of people min/maxing, participation, etc. That just goes to show how poorly balanced, and implemented wow pvp is though.
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90 Troll Druid
15025

.. there he was.

Just standing there.

Regenerating 5, health,per second.

I glared at the Troll.

The Troll glared back at me.

Silence flooded the world.

"And there's nothing you can do about it," the Troll whispered.
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