A chance for Kul'Tiras drama?

90 Human Death Knight
7475
Lets say Kul'Tiras becomes a few new zones in the next expac. Um for basic reasons Azsharas Naga have begun to raid the island nation, but now the Kvaldir have risen from the depths and the mist tha covers Kul'Tiras threatens to bring about the end of the entire nation. Anduin leads an Alliance force to aid Kul'Tiras and Jaina brings the floating city with her as well. The Horde arrive led by Loth'Remar and the Queen's Navy in order to do whatever is needed to keep the nation of Kul'Tiras from regaining stability and putting the Horde's operations on the Eastern Kingdoms at greater risk.

Anduin meets with Tandred Proudmoore, brother to Jaina and the now king of Kul'Tiras, who is lukewarm towards the young prince. Once Jaina enters the room, Tandred becomes more hostile, wondering how it is that their father Daelin could depart to Kalimdor only to die against the Orcs and for Jaina to be granted a new kingdom to herself and not pursue the Orcs. Then as the Orcs destroy Jaina's new city, the leader of the Kirin'Tor is killed in the attack and she is named the Ruler of Dalaran almost immediately after.

Tandred accuses Jaina of regicide against their father for control of a nation to herself and Jaina admits that she did kill Daelin, though she leaves out the part about doing it to save the Orcs. Tandred immediately orders Jainas capture and execution claiming his right as king to declare her of high treason. Jaina attempts to use her magic to escape but it backfires as she realizes the room is filled with anti-magic fields, Tandred having prepared a "Just as Planned" to ensure his mage sibling would be unable to escape.

As Jaina is shackled and her magics silenced via enchanted holdings as she is led out to the city courtyard for a public execution to show the fate of traitors. The only thing that saves her is Anduin throwing a shield up around her as the firing squad opens up, and Anduin threatens that if Tandred persists that the Alliance will not aid Kul'Tiras against the Horde or the Kvaldir raiders.

Tandred initially dismisses Anduin as an 'ignorant child' but soon realizes that he is right in that Kul'Tiras will fall without aid. So he instead declares Jaina to be exiled and the Kirin'Tor mages are to never set foot or sail on Kul'Tiras land or sea. Jaina instead keeps Dalaran close to the mainland to aid Anduins fleets however she can. Varian arrives on the shores and is brought up to speed by his son, and together they attempt to mend the damage to relations caused by the fiasco.

The new peace talks are beginning to show promise when Loth'Remar and Grand Magister Rommath burst in. Varian is about to take LothRemars head as a trophy when Remar states he merely wished to illuminate Tandred as to 'why' Jaina killed Daelin Proudmoore. Rommath then conjures up an image that shows Jaina fighting alongside Thrall against Daelin, and after Daelin is killed Thrall thanks Jaina for giving his people a chance to live.

Tandred and Varian are both assured that this is a Horde trick, a magical stunt to deceive him. Eventually he and Varian are convinced that Jaina did aid Thrall willingly, idk maybe Thrall himself makes a cameo and says its true, Tandred flies into a rage and orders everyone out of the city. Later that evening an entire Kul'Tiras armada opens fire on Dalaran and as the city begins to reel under the assualt, Varian orders all Alliance troops to withdraw from the field and return to the Arathi front.

Dalaran begins to shatter and fall into the sea as only a few ships under Anduin's command remain to aid Jaina and the survivors against the Kvaldir who scour the now sinking city for slaves and plunder. Loth'Remar has a moment of smug and the players are kind of 'just there' as always.

There we go, expansion content filled with some character development and drama without playing the Idiot Villain Ball card.
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58 Undead Death Knight
120
Jaina being hated by Kul'Tiran nobility of any sort I can understand, but some of the other stuff seems weird.

- Where has Kul'Tiras been all these years?
- What is the need for two anti-everyone groups showing up?
- Why is Tandred, the notorious orc hater apparently, allowing Horde representatives, as well as Thrall himself, into his meetings unharmed whilst he punishes Jaina?
- Why is Varian trying to cut off Lor'Themar's head when they're at peace?
- Why does Varian just totally ignore the fleet destroying his ally and head for Arathi?
- What satisfaction does the Alliance get from this event? They don't get Kul'Tiras, they lose Dalaran, and they know the Horde's responsible for it. Giant kick in the balls.

If I wanted to involve Kul'Tiras? I'd have Tandred remain non-canon, and KT be wrapped up in a succession crisis that's kept it out of the game for the last few years. Varian, seeking to clear things up for mutual security reasons, backs the most pro-Stormwind candidate. You get quests to buy off other leaders, fend off assassins, maybe do some assassinating of your own, ending in this pro-Stormwind guy taking control. He swears fealty to Varian (High King of humanity, comin at ya), and just in time for funzies Azshara goes all Azshara over the place and you defend KT, leading into an expansion based around her.

Horde would have similar quests, but involving Kezan, and basically backing the most pro-Horde goblin to fulfill the same role.
Edited by Gandred on 2/6/2013 8:43 AM PST
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100 Blood Elf Rogue
10965
If this happens after SoO lets assume either Vol'jin or Theron is Warchief. Since neither is overly hostile to the Alliance (the first having warned them of a major Troll invasion and the second being a hair's breadth away from joining the Alliance) why would the Horde oppose the Alliance's efforts to fight the Naga and/or Kvaldir?
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90 Human Death Knight
7475
Jaina being hated by Kul'Tiran nobility of any sort I can understand, but some of the other stuff seems weird.


Feedback always helps to shape the stories into something more enjoyable


- Where has Kul'Tiras been all these years?


Blizzard said that they had been helping the Alliance by ferrying troops and ships from place to place but have otherwise been left out of the writing. I think somewhere it said in Tides of War that the island broke off from the sea floor and floated away, but I think that was ignored for being silly. Not 100%


- What is the need for two anti-everyone groups showing up?


We can forget about the Naga and just stick with the curse of the Kvaldir, BA Sea Vikings are more interesting in a story that will be focused on Naval warfare anyways.

- Why is Tandred, the notorious orc hater apparently, allowing Horde representatives, as well as Thrall himself, into his meetings unharmed whilst he punishes Jaina?


I didnt say he let them in, I said Rommath and Loth'Remar let themselves in, small group ports in, just enough people to get through the magical barriers, but not enough to mount an attack. If Loth'Remars plan is to destablize the nation than ruining peace talks is a good way to go about it. And maybe the Belves will have to make an escape as well because like you said, Tandred hates Horde, Orcs in particular, and wouldn't simply 'let' the Regent of Quel'Thelas walk away.

- Why is Varian trying to cut off Lor'Themar's head when they're at peace?


This would be at a major point in the war against the Forsaken, the Blood Elves being one of their best supporters at this point after the Purge of Dalaran. The potential for peace has already been ruined apparently, but Loth'Remars plea to share some info and not fight is what stays Varian's hand. Varian isn't a berserking savage in actual lore.


- Why does Varian just totally ignore the fleet destroying his ally and head for Arathi?


Maybe that was a bad way to go about it. Instead of Kul'Tiras attacking Dalaran, the Queen's Navy launches an assault on the city and Varian and Anduin's ships fight to aid in the battle. When Tandred is called for aid he withdraw's support and let's Dalaran fall into the sea. The Horde Navy is destroyed utterly but Dalaran is now being preyed upon by the Kvaldir. And Tandred has to answer for his actions.

- What satisfaction does the Alliance get from this event? They don't get Kul'Tiras, they lose Dalaran, and they know the Horde's responsible for it. Giant kick in the balls.


Well I was going for something besides 100% Alliance favoring. To show the Alliance begining to fracture as the war drags on and puts a strain on tempers. Rather than "OMG VARIAN IS SO AWESOME HE CAN TOTALLY BE MY HIGH KING" character development should be eased into. If we establish that Tandred hates the Horde and for good reason, the Orcs killed his brother and father, and that he harbors a grudge against Jaina, a magic user always detached from family with a bigger focus on learning more arcane secrets than being a good leader, he can become a more conflicted and grey character.

We can see why Tandred doesn't want to work with Jaina, his people are under attack from the Horde in a reasonable manner, his nation is under seige from a threat that was previously established in lore as something that exists and doesn't come from nowhere (the Kvaldir), and his bitter feelings towards his sister starts a believable decent into hate that could spark a war. He is letting his feelings get the better of him and do things out of spite, rather than work towards the good of his people. Which eventually he would see, but realizing that he has burned the bridge with his last family member simply pardons his sister and lets her know that he will never forgive her for killing Daelin, but he won't mark her in Kul'Tiras history as a traitor.

All while Sylvanas and Loth'Remar continue to assault Kul'Tiras and Arathor/Gilneas

Not a happy ending, but war stories where both sides are humanized never end happily.
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90 Human Death Knight
7475
02/06/2013 08:48 AMPosted by Telonis
If this happens after SoO lets assume either Vol'jin or Theron is Warchief. Since neither is overly hostile to the Alliance (the first having warned them of a major Troll invasion and the second being a hair's breadth away from joining the Alliance) why would the Horde oppose the Alliance's efforts to fight the Naga and/or Kvaldir?


Well the idea is that Stormwind gets its act together and helps the League of Arathor, the Gilnean resistance, and 7th Legion in the assault on the Forsaken.

If Kul'Tiras fully backs the Alliance and begins to choke trade by sea the Forsaken would have to rely on easily disrupted magical transportation to get anything from troops to supplies. Effectively ending the war in the Eastern Kingdoms early and thus allowing the Alliance to focus on Kalimdor.

The Horde would send in Kor'Kron, Sunreaver Magisters, and Forsaken Deathgaurd to ensure that Kul'Tiras is too destablized by the Kvaldir to aid the Alliance.

Since it's world of Warcraft being about War it would be safe to assume that the war is still going on in the North because of the Forsaken doing what they do. Maybe things have settled down in Kalimdor but there is no reason for peace in the Eastern Kingdoms in the wake of Hillsbrad, Gilneas, the Arathi invasion, and Alterac.
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100 Draenei Paladin
10245
You make some good points but i really wouldnt want see Kul Tiras vs Dalaran in a fight. Maybe some harsh words and such but nothing this extreme. I also wouldnt want to see Anduin leading a fleet of Stormwind ships, if anything Admiral Taylor should be leading them. But i agree this is a good way to get a focus on the EK front.

02/06/2013 08:58 AMPosted by Anargyros
Blizzard said that they had been helping the Alliance by ferrying troops and ships from place to place


Really? Do you have a link or know where it's been said?
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100 Dwarf Paladin
13395
If I wanted to involve Kul'Tiras? I'd have Tandred remain non-canon, and KT be wrapped up in a succession crisis that's kept it out of the game for the last few years. Varian, seeking to clear things up for mutual security reasons, backs the most pro-Stormwind candidate. You get quests to buy off other leaders, fend off assassins, maybe do some assassinating of your own, ending in this pro-Stormwind guy taking control. He swears fealty to Varian (High King of humanity, comin at ya), and just in time for funzies Azshara goes all Azshara over the place and you defend KT, leading into an expansion based around her.

Horde would have similar quests, but involving Kezan, and basically backing the most pro-Horde goblin to fulfill the same role.


I do think the idea of a succession crisis might be the best route since it creates a plausible reason why Kul'Tiras hasn't been involved in the events of WoW so far. Perhaps this could be combined with damage sustained by the Cataclysm which just made a bad situation a whole lot worse (perhaps by knocking out one of the more powerful factions, removing any semblance of order)

I don't know if Kezen could fulfill a similar role since it's been pretty much abandoned and never really had a single leader anyways (as far as I can tell, the Cartels are essentially sovereign nations with no central leadership).

Perhaps the best route as far as the Horde is concerned is for them to simply back their own candidate on Kul'Tiras. While the people of Kul'Tiras don't tend to be the most tolerant of the Horde, I could see the years of struggle and desperation making at least one noble decide to throw his lot in with a (post Garrosh obviously) Horde. Or perhaps he's just so sick and tired of war in general that he wants Kul'Tiras to become strictly neutral to keep them out of any future Horde/Alliance conflicts, a goal the Horde agrees with, and is willing to accept aide from anyone to make it happen.

This could even illustrate the new form the Horde/Alliance conflict has taken. Instead of overt fighting on the battlefields, the Horde and Alliance battle on a more political level. Each faction, while now much more willing to work together against world-ending threats, is constantly trying to outmaneuver the other for when and if the war once again breaks out. The Alliance wants to annex Kul'Tiras into the Kingdom of Stormwind, while the Horde wants it to become a neutral power and perhaps be loosely affiliated with the Horde (knowing that annexing the island completely isn't possible for them outside of outright conquest).
Edited by Falrinn on 2/6/2013 11:08 AM PST
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100 Draenei Paladin
10245
If I wanted to involve Kul'Tiras? I'd have Tandred remain non-canon, and KT be wrapped up in a succession crisis that's kept it out of the game for the last few years. Varian, seeking to clear things up for mutual security reasons, backs the most pro-Stormwind candidate. You get quests to buy off other leaders, fend off assassins, maybe do some assassinating of your own, ending in this pro-Stormwind guy taking control. He swears fealty to Varian (High King of humanity, comin at ya), and just in time for funzies Azshara goes all Azshara over the place and you defend KT, leading into an expansion based around her.

Horde would have similar quests, but involving Kezan, and basically backing the most pro-Horde goblin to fulfill the same role.


I do think the idea of a succession crisis might be the best route since it creates a plausible reason why Kul'Tiras hasn't been involved in the events of WoW so far. Perhaps this could be combined with damage sustained by the Cataclysm which just made a bad situation a whole lot worse (perhaps by knocking out one of the more powerful factions, removing any semblance of order)

I don't know if Kezen could fulfill a similar role since it's been pretty much abandoned and never really had a single leader anyways (as far as I can tell, the Cartels are essentially sovereign nations with no central leadership).

Perhaps the best route as far as the Horde is concerned is for them to simply back their own candidate on Kul'Tiras. While the people of Kul'Tiras don't tend to be the most tolerant of the Horde, I could see the years of struggle and desperation making at least one noble decide to throw his lot in with a (post Garrosh obviously) Horde. Or perhaps he's just so sick and tired of war in general that he wants Kul'Tiras to become strictly neutral to keep them out of any future Horde/Alliance conflicts, a goal the Horde agrees with, and is willing to accept aide from anyone to make it happen.

This could even illustrate the new form the Horde/Alliance conflict has taken. Instead of overt fighting on the battlefields, the Horde and Alliance battle on a more political level. Each faction, while now much more willing to work together against world-ending threats, is constantly trying to outmaneuver the other for when and if the war once again breaks out. The Alliance wants to annex Kul'Tiras into the Kingdom of Stormwind, while the Horde wants it to become a neutral power and perhaps be loosely affiliated with the Horde (knowing that annexing the island completely isn't possible for them outside of outright conquest).


Alliance players have been waiting a long time for Kul Tiras, it shouldn't be Horde or neutral territory. It should be an Alliance nation. Not part of Stormwind but its own human nation. There can be neutral themes but don' take former alliance/horde groups and turn them into them. Just give the Alliance Kul Tiras ans give the Horde Kezan. That way each faction has their own territory without the lolneutral role coming into play.
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100 Dwarf Paladin
13395
02/06/2013 11:25 AMPosted by Gollard
Alliance players have been waiting a long time for Kul Tiras, it shouldn't be Horde or neutral territory. It should be an Alliance nation. Not part of Stormwind but its own human nation. There can be neutral themes but don' take former alliance/horde groups and turn them into them. Just give the Alliance Kul Tiras ans give the Horde Kezan. That way each faction has their own territory without the lolneutral role coming into play.


Hey, I'm not saying the Alliance can't win this round. I'm simply saying that both factions could have content on Kul'Tiras. Perhaps the noble who worked with the Horde ends up getting exiled because of it, and the final quest for Horde players involves helping him flee the island along with his possessions and closest supporters.

Likewise on Kezen perhaps both factions will arrive, along with several other Goblin cartels, in an attempt to secure the islands wealth and technology for themselves. However the Bilgewater Goblins gain the upper hand by making deals with the other Goblin cartels and the Alliance ends up pulling out with perhaps some rare goblin tech as a consolation prize.

Simply giving the Alliance Kul'Tiras and the Horde Kezen isn't good enough. There would need to be an actual story to go along with it or it's just a bunch of wasted space as far as the average player is concerned. And there is no reason why both factions couldn't be involved in both stories.
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100 Draenei Paladin
10245
Alliance players have been waiting a long time for Kul Tiras, it shouldn't be Horde or neutral territory. It should be an Alliance nation. Not part of Stormwind but its own human nation. There can be neutral themes but don' take former alliance/horde groups and turn them into them. Just give the Alliance Kul Tiras ans give the Horde Kezan. That way each faction has their own territory without the lolneutral role coming into play.


Hey, I'm not saying the Alliance can't win this round. I'm simply saying that both factions could have content on Kul'Tiras. Perhaps the noble who worked with the Horde ends up getting exiled because of it, and the final quest for Horde players involves helping him flee the island along with his possessions and closest supporters.

Likewise on Kezen perhaps both factions will arrive, along with several other Goblin cartels, in an attempt to secure the islands wealth and technology for themselves. However the Bilgewater Goblins gain the upper hand by making deals with the other Goblin cartels and the Alliance ends up pulling out with perhaps some rare goblin tech as a consolation prize.

Simply giving the Alliance Kul'Tiras and the Horde Kezen isn't good enough. There would need to be an actual story to go along with it or it's just a bunch of wasted space as far as the average player is concerned. And there is no reason why both factions couldn't be involved in both stories.


If the Horde are going to have content on Kul Tiras it should be an attack to claim the island nation but they are pushed out and Kul Tiras stays pure alliance. If the Alliance are going to have content on Kezan it should be an attack on Kezan by the Alliance and the Horde push them out and Kezan stays in the Horde's hands.
Edited by Gollard on 2/6/2013 1:46 PM PST
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100 Dwarf Paladin
13395
02/06/2013 01:45 PMPosted by Gollard
If the Horde are going to have content on Kul Tiras it should be an attack to claim the island nation but they are pushed out and Kul Tiras stays pure alliance. If the Alliance are going to have content on Kezan it should be an attack on Kezan by the Alliance and the Horde push them out and Kezan stays in the Horde's hands.


That works if the Horde and Alliance are in a state of open war, which may not be the case post MoP. Hence why I think the conflict could primarily take the form of political maneuvering and underhanded actions rather then open battle.
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58 Undead Death Knight
120
02/06/2013 11:05 AMPosted by Falrinn
I don't know if Kezen could fulfill a similar role since it's been pretty much abandoned and never really had a single leader anyways (as far as I can tell, the Cartels are essentially sovereign nations with no central leadership).


Has it been abandoned? I thought much of it was underground and would be unaffected by the recent troubles.
Perhaps the best route as far as the Horde is concerned is for them to simply back their own candidate on Kul'Tiras. While the people of Kul'Tiras don't tend to be the most tolerant of the Horde, I could see the years of struggle and desperation making at least one noble decide to throw his lot in with a (post Garrosh obviously) Horde. Or perhaps he's just so sick and tired of war in general that he wants Kul'Tiras to become strictly neutral to keep them out of any future Horde/Alliance conflicts, a goal the Horde agrees with, and is willing to accept aide from anyone to make it happen.


I find the idea of any Kul'Tiras noble wanting to join the Horde when the Alliance is just as powerful at that point (so no Perenoldes) to be unlikely. The neutral thing makes sense, though.

This could even illustrate the new form the Horde/Alliance conflict has taken. Instead of overt fighting on the battlefields, the Horde and Alliance battle on a more political level. Each faction, while now much more willing to work together against world-ending threats, is constantly trying to outmaneuver the other for when and if the war once again breaks out. The Alliance wants to annex Kul'Tiras into the Kingdom of Stormwind, while the Horde wants it to become a neutral power and perhaps be loosely affiliated with the Horde (knowing that annexing the island completely isn't possible for them outside of outright conquest).


+1
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100 Dwarf Paladin
13395
02/07/2013 01:36 AMPosted by Gandred
Has it been abandoned? I thought much of it was underground and would be unaffected by the recent troubles.


Since fleeing underground wasn't even considered in the Goblin starting area, I assume that Undermine wasn't any better off then the surface.

And if you really think about it, unless the Goblins were uncharacteristically cautious in their construction of Undermine, I'd say there's a decent chance the city was affected by the eruption even more then the surface was. All it would take is one ill-advised tunnel into the volcano's magma camber and half the city could end up flooded with lava.

02/07/2013 01:36 AMPosted by Gandred
I find the idea of any Kul'Tiras noble wanting to join the Horde when the Alliance is just as powerful at that point (so no Perenoldes) to be unlikely. The neutral thing makes sense, though.


I'm thinking in this case the noble in question would have some sort of personal beef with the Alliance. Maybe he requested aid at some point in the past and didn't get it (likely because the Alliance was busy elsewhere). Still I agree that a noble supporting absolute neutrality might be a bit more plausible overall.
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100 Draenei Paladin
10245
I can't picture nor do i want to picture a neutral Kul Tiras. It wouldn't be good for the story. Although its possible it will be because the way things turn neutral in this game i wouldn't be suprised.
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80 Dwarf Paladin
0
I think it's unlikely that we have an expansion (or a major storyline) centered over an alliance faction. The last time they did something like that with our favourite Horde shaman and the reception was bad.

And like all things blizzard, everything comes in pairs. So if kul tiras comes into play, we will probably see the horde establishing a base on kezan or hooking up the drifting giant ark of zandalari trolls for a south sea expansion - which will have us fighting and facing nagas, kaldivar and dead spirits in the tomb of sargeras.
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90 Human Death Knight
7475
I think it's unlikely that we have an expansion (or a major storyline) centered over an alliance faction. The last time they did something like that with our favourite Horde shaman and the reception was bad.

And like all things blizzard, everything comes in pairs. So if kul tiras comes into play, we will probably see the horde establishing a base on kezan or hooking up the drifting giant ark of zandalari trolls for a south sea expansion - which will have us fighting and facing nagas, kaldivar and dead spirits in the tomb of sargeras.


I wouldnt mind that being one aspect of the Expac and Arathi/Kul'Tiras being the other half.

Then having an invasion by the Dreadlords and Riders of Xoroth being the Patch Raid content.
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100 Draenei Paladin
10245
If Alliance gets Kul Tiras and Horde gets maybe those trolls we could possibly have quests/missions to sink enemy faction ships which would be awesome. Maybe an ocean battle battleground?
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After 6.0 (The Legion Expansion)

7.0 (The Great Seas of Azeroth)

Main Hub: Kezan. While the Biglewater Cartel has joined the Horde, the remaining Trade Princes remain neutral, opening up their rebuilt Undermine for all to use to help explore the seas.

95-96: Kul'Tiras
96-97: Gillijim's Isle and the Island of Doctor Lapidis (Appeared in the Alpha version as well as maps for the cinematic and the comic)
97-98: Tel'Abim
98-99: Plunder Island
99-100: Kezan
Max lvl Daily Hub: Broken Isles

The patches could involve going deeper into the maelstrom and it's areas eventually raiding and killing N'Zoth and Azhara (Azhara being the final boss, idk it just sits better with me to have the theme of the expansion be an actual well known lore character). With the RPG's no longer canon they have more room to get creative.

7.1: Seafall, conflict between the Horde and the Alliance reaches another high. Just kidding !@#$ that %^-*. Filler patch, might as well expand on the Broken Isles .

7.2: The Rift: You have to enter the Emerald Dream and fight you way to the Rift, which has been radiating a new Nightmare since Malfurion contained it. The Raid will involve N'Zoth with a very creepy raid dungeon.

7.3: A worldwide Naga invasion starts, you must defend the world from them. New raid could involve area's surrounding Nazjatar. Regardless if the RPG is right or not there has to be areas around the city...

7.4: Nazjatar and Azhara. I liked how the Isle of Quel'Danas was, and maybe 5.2 idk, but something like this model.
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