LFD loot

90 Gnome Priest
6860
Work it out ahead of time before killing a boss and you won't encounter many problems.

Simple and intelligent solution to a stupid problem people force on other people.
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90 Pandaren Monk
7990
Work it out ahead of time before killing a boss and you won't encounter many problems.

Simple and intelligent solution to a stupid problem people force on other people.


But I do work it out before time without ever having to talk to them as we all joined the dungeon using the LFD system meaning we all explicitly agreed to the Need before Greed loot system. If you expect anyone to use something other than that then I don't know what to say.
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90 Worgen Mage
8565
MS should always take priority over OS. However, there are some people who try out a spec, don't like it, and have to re-spec. And there's really no way of proving that someone is re-speccing.

The polite thing to do is roll need on current spec gear, and ASK before rolling need on any non-current spec gear.


No. MS/OS is a player made rule with zero authority. Blizz has pointed this out on more than one occasion, and DAMN..I DID get that achieve?


"Zhenogre has earned the achievement "Equus Mortuus est" - "Horse steaks for everyone"
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90 Troll Priest
0
02/06/2013 03:56 PMPosted by Traleda
Jesterjoe, I think the OP was taking issue with the fact that that first reply stated their opinion - which you also noticed was an opinion - as if it were a factual and unequivocable truth.
How strong can an opinion be if the person holding it can't state it as fact?
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90 Human Paladin
aus
18560
02/06/2013 04:44 PMPosted by Zaxan
If I am making the runs go fast, apparently im not causing wipes or deaths.


Plate dps are much more likely to then a hunter, I had a warrior doing 170k dps last week but took a ton of healing to keep alive..

As for the subject, the ability to offspec overall is a good thing for LFD. Personally I respec MS/OS too a high degree except for the occasional case of you did it first. Enjoy your 4 greens I managed to win every shard in the instance, was one recent war between a 3 man blackrock pug and me

But they do need to fix the stupid stuff, the current rules are based around 3.0 specs and gearing. No hunters do not need the ability to NEED on melee weapons.
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63 Pandaren Monk
12940


No. MS/OS is a player made rule with zero authority. Blizz has pointed this out on more than one occasion, and DAMN..I DID get that achieve?
"


Authority has nothing to do with being polite and having respect for fellow players. There's absolutely no way that anyone not fulfilling a particular role in a group has a greater need for an item of that role than the person (or persons) that are fulfilling that role (obviously presuming that they do have a need for the item). It's simply not possible since they are actively performing that role for your in your group.

Therefore, it will always be disrespectful to roll need on drops for other roles than you are in the group for. I realize what stance Blizzard has taken. If they want to support a community in which players don't have respect for each other then that's up to them. Personally, until the rolling system is fixed I just don't do heroics anymore. Well, unless of course it's a full group of people I know. Not that the downward trend of the community is anything surprising. It's as if people exist in a private bubble with no thought of the existence of anyone else around them.

There are rules and there are restrictions, but courtesy is something completely independent of either. It's not about "can/can't" but rather "should/shouldn't".
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90 Worgen Mage
8565
There are rules and there are restrictions, but courtesy is something completely independent of either. It's not about "can/can't" but rather "should/shouldn't".


Need before Greed or make your own group.

There's absolutely no way that anyone not fulfilling a particular role in a group has a greater need for an item of that role than the person (or persons) that are fulfilling that role (obviously presuming that they do have a need for the item). It's simply not possible since they are actively performing that role for your in your group.


People have more than one spec and need gear for that spec. It isnt possible for you, it is for them.

I said this in the other thread, but as far as respect goes, there is also the respect you are required to show to people who use the loot rules as they are meant to be used, and not to some standard you set.

You in fact are showing them little respect by demanding your "moral code" is to be imposed on them whether they want it or not. I accept that you dont like it, and that is entirely your prerogative. But the rules are what they are for adequate reason (which have been stated many times) and as such, you have no right to impose any "rules" of your own.

The "courtesy" you speak of also goes both ways.

Therefore, it will always be disrespectful to roll need on drops for other roles than you are in the group for. I realize what stance Blizzard has taken.


Respect is earned, not bestowed, and in counterpoint I note that it is you who needs to respect that your opinion is not binding and has no weight or authority.

Do I get a tabard for this achieve?
Edited by Zhenogre on 2/6/2013 6:38 PM PST
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90 Worgen Mage
8565
No hunters do not need the ability to NEED on melee weapons.


On this we are agreed.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
6900
02/06/2013 06:36 PMPosted by Zhenogre
You in fact are showing them little respect by demanding your "moral code" is to be imposed on them whether they want it or not

Sorry for being absent in this thread, real life called.

I think this hits the nail on the head in this whole debate. If you feel MS>OS, you roll that way. Others do not have to, nor should they conform to your way of thinking. Just as a real community goes, people are going to have differing views, and that's great. With any community, you can try to enforce your view(in this case vote kick), or stick with those who feel as you do.

It is, like I said, very simple.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
6900
02/06/2013 06:09 PMPosted by Fluffykegs
There's absolutely no way that anyone not fulfilling a particular role in a group has a greater need for an item of that role than the person (or persons) that are fulfilling that role


Indeed, everyone should have an equal chance at the loot. No one has a greater need on an item. Tanks should not have a greater need on tank gear just because they are the tank. Healers should not have a greater need on healing gear, and dps should not have a greater need on DPS gear just because they are DPSing.

Respect is not something that *must* be shown to random strangers. Respect is earned. I am not hostile to LFD groups, but I am not best buddies with them either.
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90 Dwarf Warrior
12275
It's a dungeon. All the loot in there is crap anyway. It's like people who start freaking out about lockboxes in LFR. Nobody needs the greens and yet, everyone scrambles all over the lockboxes. At worst, it's a green. At best, it's another lockbox with a green in that one. Totally useless gear. Same with dungeons though not as ridiculous. Sure, it's useful. Until you do any raids, then it means nothing. It means nothing so quickly that it seems a bit odd to care if people take "your gear." It's different with a raid, where the gear with last you months before you need to replace it, but for the stepping stone "god I need to get this crap so it will let me into LFR"? Don't lose sweat over it.
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90 Undead Warrior
0
If you lose a MS roll to someone's OS roll, first politely whisper them asking them if you can have the item, politely pointing out you need the item as main spec upgrade.

I've observed this action alone has about 50% chance of success.

However, if you immediately holler and pout in group chat about the ninja'd roll... well your chance of getting the item has then fallen to near zero.
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90 Undead Warrior
0
02/06/2013 08:55 PMPosted by Senoria
There's absolutely no way that anyone not fulfilling a particular role in a group has a greater need for an item of that role than the person (or persons) that are fulfilling that role


Indeed, everyone should have an equal chance at the loot. No one has a greater need on an item. Tanks should not have a greater need on tank gear just because they are the tank. Healers should not have a greater need on healing gear, and dps should not have a greater need on DPS gear just because they are DPSing.

Respect is not something that *must* be shown to random strangers. Respect is earned. I am not hostile to LFD groups, but I am not best buddies with them either.


This is subjective. Some of us do feel if you are fulfilling a certain role, then your need for items pertaining to that role is greater. Obviously you disagree. But do not use the word "should" as if you are an authority on this subject.
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90 Undead Warrior
0
02/06/2013 08:45 PMPosted by Senoria
You in fact are showing them little respect by demanding your "moral code" is to be imposed on them whether they want it or not

Sorry for being absent in this thread, real life called.

I think this hits the nail on the head in this whole debate. If you feel MS>OS, you roll that way. Others do not have to, nor should they conform to your way of thinking. Just as a real community goes, people are going to have differing views, and that's great. With any community, you can try to enforce your view(in this case vote kick), or stick with those who feel as you do.

It is, like I said, very simple.


Or, you know, you could always just directly ask for the item first. If asked in a polite way, the chances of getting the item via trade window are greater than you would guess. Vote kick is not always the only recourse.
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90 Undead Warrior
0
There is no rule that someone covers their mouth when coughing. Yes, it's a bit much to get so angry when another person fails to cover their mouth when coughing, as to run to the forums and vent about it. However, covering one's mouth while coughing is still accepted etiquette, regardless what is written in the rule book.
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90 Pandaren Monk
9990
I always respect MS>OS out of courtesy.
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66 Draenei Priest
8275
There are two forms of the community rules.

Current spec before other spec. roll need if it is an upgrade or sidegrade that is better for your play-style. If you want something for other spec ask or wait till those in the spec roll greed/disenchant. For pets, mounts, vanity items you roll need if you do not have it. If just for transmog ask unless they roll greed/disenchant.

Current spec = other spec. roll need if it is an upgrade or sidegrade that is better for your play-style. For pets, mounts, vanity items you roll need if you do not have it. If just for transmog ask unless they all roll greed/disenchant.

i believe both are valid if people are honourable but i prefer the former.

If they take it for another spec or what is called ninjaing and i do have need of it i will ask for it. i will also ask them not to ninja.

i believe in the community rules and believe we should follow them. It is in everyone's best interests to do so. It allows everyone to gear up and protects both you and the others.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
6900
02/06/2013 10:11 PMPosted by Nohlani
There are two forms of the community rules


02/06/2013 10:11 PMPosted by Nohlani
i believe in the community rules and believe we should follow them


Then I have to ask... Which ones, in your opinion, should we follow? And why should we follow it? If I choose to follow X, and you choose to follow Y, is that wrong?
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66 Draenei Priest
8275
Then I have to ask... Which ones, in your opinion, should we follow? And why should we follow it? If I choose to follow X, and you choose to follow Y, is that wrong?


The community rules bring a kind of order to the chaos, a source of light in the darkness. An ethical and moral code made by the players back when the realms were isolated and we could police the realms and enforce the rules.

If we only need on what we actually need we give one another a chance to gear up. We help each other and show respect to each other.

Let's say for instance we are in a group in Ahn'Qiraj Temple and we are all at the level the raid was made for. We kill Fankriss the Unyielding and the Robes of the Guardian Saint drop. Now you and a few of our other cloth wearers can use them. aside from a rare drop and being pretty hot they are pretty good for the level. i obviously have them and have no need of getting them again.

i could roll need for them with you others and win them but by hitting greed i am allowing you or one of the others to get the robes you need that would make you a more powerful player.

If i am hitting need but have no need, if the armour/weapon/trinket/ring is not an upgrade or a sidegrade that is better for me and there are others that actually need it and i win then i am depriving them of an opportunity to improve their gear, to become a more powerful player just because i can.

Just because i can hit need does not mean i should or that i have the right to.

Like i said there are two forms of the community rules.

1. Current spec before other spec. roll need if it is an upgrade or sidegrade that is better for your play-style. If you want something for other spec ask or wait till those in the spec roll greed/disenchant. For pets, mounts, vanity items you roll need if you do not have it. If just for transmog ask unless they roll greed/disenchant.

2. Current spec = other spec. roll need if it is an upgrade or sidegrade that is better for your play-style. For pets, mounts, vanity items you roll need if you do not have it. If just for transmog ask unless they all roll greed/disenchant.

i follow number 1 but i believe that both are valid and support both of them. If i use 1 and you use 2 it would not matter to me. If you won an upgrade or a better sidegrade for my current spec but not yours if i would ask politely if could have it.
Edited by Nohlani on 2/7/2013 12:09 AM PST
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90 Dwarf Shaman
7745
With the introduction of LFR came a redefinition of the loot distribution mindset. The MS>OS priority is a thing of the past. New instance finder - new rules.
Edited by Corahn on 2/7/2013 12:20 AM PST
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