Scorch Fire only, New talent Flameglow

90 Human Priest
13280
Mage
This is very much a PTR experiment, but we are going to try moving Blazing Speed to the top talent tier to replace Scorch. Scorch will become a baseline Fire spell. Blazing Speed’s old position on the talent tree will be replaced with a new talent.

The new talent is currently called Flameglow, and it is a “permanently on” ability that reduces all damage taken by a flat amount, based on spellpower, up to a maximum of 30% of the hit. The intent is to give mages a passive defensive option, and also one that varies with the frequency of incoming damage. Remember, mages must give up Temporal Shield or Ice Barrier to take the new talent.

We agree with the feedback that Blazing Speed makes more sense grouped with the movement talents than with the defensive talents. In addition, we have buffed Ice Floes already from live, and we have added an additional perk that spells cast within the first half a second of Ice Flows don’t consume a charge. Currently if you’re making use of spell queuing, it’s easy to waste the first charge, so this fix is intended to help with that.

That brings us to Scorch. Sorch feels really valuable to many players (above and beyond Arcane using it rotationally to avoid dropping stacks), but we’re concerned that it feels more valuable than it actually is. Yes, Elemental and Hunters can do a lot of damage while on the move, but not every spec in the game needs to do so, and mages have a lot of other advantages. Mages do have several tools to deal with movement, such as several instants and abilities such as Blink and the tier 2 talents to minimize movement time. We’d rather seem mages plan, move quickly, and plant rather than just stay moving all the time. Scorch preempts all of those tools and has the added psychological benefit of feeling like you’re always doing something, and because of that feeling of being productive, we’re concerned you have less motivation to minimize movement. Mathematically, if you’re making full use of your available tools without Scorch, Scorch isn’t much of a benefit of all, and we think the mage class would feel and play better overall without Scorch as a crutch. We debated removing Scorch completely, and we still might, but we’re sensitive to the fact that so many mages are using Scorch today and might not understand or appreciate its loss. As a compromise, we’re going to try Scorch as Fire only to preserve the gameplay for players who really like it and to help differentiate the Mage specs a bit more.

This is a big change, and the kind of thing we might revert if we and you don’t like how it plays. Try it out and let us know.

adding link: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/7811342046#2
what do you think?
Edited by Milktea on 2/4/2013 1:29 PM PST
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90 Blood Elf Priest
4770
Very good change
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Hmm I like it, but I could see a lot of mages not liking it. Especially the ones that liked the scorch weaving, this eliminates that playstyle. In my opinion it was awkward that top dps for arcane revolved around weaving a fire spell but if other players enjoyed it then meh. It's nice to see ice flows getting some love as that talent needed some buffs, should be interesting.
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Removing Scorch entirely instead of restricting it to Fire only would be unfortunate. Even with its storied past of people not wanting to cast it, it still is part of the flavor of the spec (albeit one that currently needs to be chosen).
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Incredible change...in a good way.
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90 Undead Mage
11495
Praise Jesus, I hope this sticks. I love the super movement of fire but hate choosing between it and PoM. Makes so much more sense this way.
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90 Troll Mage
11580
scorch being fire only will bite everybody in the booty that is all
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02/04/2013 02:46 PMPosted by Crusix
scorch being fire only will bite everybody in the booty that is all


For what reason?
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90 Blood Elf Mage
4560
02/04/2013 02:36 PMPosted by Nuclea
Praise Jesus, I hope this sticks. I love the super movement of fire but hate choosing between it and PoM. Makes so much more sense this way.

PoM fire w/ scorch will probably be too strong, as scorchless fire is already viable with zero sustained damage. Having sustained damage on top of it probably won't be balanced.
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90 Blood Elf Mage
0
02/04/2013 01:28 PMPosted by Milktea
Yes, Elemental and Hunters can do a lot of damage while on the move


Weird that they would mention elemental doing a lot of damage on the move, but not warlocks.

I'm so confused with their design direction right now. They've been pushing *all* casters towards having better mobile damage, going so far as to allow some of them to do their full damage potential on the move, then they decide that mages should be excluded from this rule entirely all of a sudden?

No, I think this is just a cop out solution for their failure to keep arcane mages from using scorch to camp stacks.
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Weird that they would mention elemental doing a lot of damage on the move, but not warlocks.

I'm so confused with their design direction right now. They've been pushing *all* casters towards having better mobile damage, going so far as to allow some of them to do their full damage potential on the move, then they decide that mages should be excluded from this rule entirely all of a sudden?

No, I think this is just a cop out solution for their failure to keep arcane mages from using scorch to camp stacks.


Design intents change sometimes after finding an opposite end of a pendulum swing. Sometimes the better question to solve first is "What's too far?" instead of "What is right?", because the former is usually easier to find than the latter.

Also, as soon as we start talking about 'rules' with Blizzard design we run into a wall of 'being different is good'.
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90 Troll Mage
18105
The new talent is currently called Flameglow, and it is a “permanently on” ability that reduces all damage taken by a flat amount, based on spellpower, up to a maximum of 30% of the hit.

The "based on spellpower" part might not be such a good idea. This would cause intellect to become somwhat of a defensive stat. In certain PvE encounters this would encourage the use of full int gems and undo the work they put into making using secondary gems on a close to equal playing field with the int gems. In PvP depending on what exactly the scaling is ,based on spellpower, it could have even larger effects on gemming.
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90 Worgen Mage
12565
Horrible change!!!

Scorch is made baseline for fire mages only. Arcane and frost mages won't be able to access scorch at all EVER.

This might be ok for frost mages who have ice lance. But arcane mage mobile dps pretty much becomes non-existent. If you're at the point of a fight where movement is unavoidable you're pretty much going to be useless.

Looks like we're rapidly reverting to vanilla wow days where the only spammable spell you could cast while on the move is arcane explosion.... YUCK!
Edited by Mistwynd on 2/4/2013 3:26 PM PST
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This might be ok for frost mages who have ice lance. But arcane mage mobile dps pretty much becomes non-existent. If you're at the point of a fight where movement is unavoidable you're pretty much going to be useless.

Arcane is pretty useless in pvp, but this makes it even more useless.


If arcane is already on the outs in PvP then removing access to scorch won't necessarily hurt in the long run, it may draw attention to the need for a better solution than Scorch to a PvP mobility requirement for Arcane.
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90 Blood Elf Mage
0
Horrible change!!!

Scorch is made baseline for fire mages only. Arcane and frost mages won't be able to access scorch at all EVER.

This might be ok for frost mages who have ice lance. But arcane mage mobile dps pretty much becomes non-existent. If you're at the point of a fight where movement is unavoidable you're pretty much going to be useless.

Looks like we're rapidly reverting to vanilla wow days where the only spammable spell you could cast while on the move is arcane explosion.... YUCK!


It almost feels like they're "encouraging" us to go back to fire. I haven't looked into the 5.2 raid bosses yet, but I'd imagine there will be enough movement to make arcane feel obsolete.
Edited by Kaikou on 2/4/2013 3:31 PM PST
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90 Draenei Mage
13780
This might be ok for frost mages who have ice lance. But arcane mage mobile dps pretty much becomes non-existent. If you're at the point of a fight where movement is unavoidable you're pretty much going to be useless.

Arcane is pretty useless in pvp, but this makes it even more useless.


If arcane is already on the outs in PvP then removing access to scorch won't necessarily hurt in the long run, it may draw attention to the need for a better solution than Scorch to a PvP mobility requirement for Arcane.


Talking about PvE where raiding is now all about large amounts of movement on many fights. They have given almost every range class the ability to do much if not all of their damage on the move (obviously not mages or boomkins). Encounter designs does not fit with this idea that mages should be static.
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90 Blood Elf Mage
10425
The cooldown reduction for Ice Flows is a buff for PvE Arcane and Fire. Fire-only Scorch is a minor buff for PvP Fire, changes nothing for PvP Frost, and changes little for PvP Arcane.
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90 Human Mage
20975
Fire burst with scorch and POM will be too high, other than that these changes are awesome.
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well i hope fireglow or whatever is good because my mage is gonna be face-tanking a lot of mobs without my scorch-strafe moves. i like scorch, hate to lose it
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90 Blood Elf Mage
7855
Scorch should be fire only, I mean it does make sense.
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