Brewmaster question

90 Pandaren Monk
6860
I understand that Expertise cap is incredibly important for Brewmasters, but would the points after 7.5% be better spent in other areas? A surplus in Expertise is never a bad thing, but I feel like some of the points could be better in crit or haste to help with my active mitigation.
Reply Quote
90 Human Monk
11365
I am assuming it is after hit cap as well.

otherwise, yes. feel free to move on from expertise after 7.5% as it only benefits parry and not dodge. so the effectiveness of expertise rating is diminished.
Reply Quote
90 Pandaren Monk
6860
My first goal is always hit cap, yes. I thought that was a given.
Reply Quote
90 Gnome Monk
7430
They changed expertise so there is no "soft cap" any more. If parries are an issue then every point of expertise up to 15% gives exactly the same benefit-the first 7.5% removes dodges, the 2nd 7.5% removes parries.

The question you have to ask yourself is how important is it to you that when you press x ability the result will be y. If you can live with the possibility that pressing keg smash will result in nothing at all happening except it going on cooldown then put points in haste/crit instead of expertise. If you want to know for certain that when you hit keg smash you will get 2 chi and do the damage then go to 15% (and obviously 7.5% hit).
Reply Quote
90 Pandaren Monk
6860
Actually, I reforged a lot more Expertise, as much as my gear would allow and suddenly I find myself a lot hardier. Maybe that's just me, but I did notice a bigger difference with Shuffle and EB uptimes.
Reply Quote
90 Human Monk
11705
Agil > 7.5% hit = 15% exp > haste > crit > mastery.

15% exp does more then "ensure your keg smash is never parried," It will also mean more Gift of the Ox procs, and elusive brew stacks from less white hits being parried or dodged. Dodge and Parry are very lackluster after you get your active mitigation up. Shuffle gives 20% parry, 20% stagger so long as it is maintained, and 30% dodge from elusive brew.

Haste is only needed until you are comfortable with your energy regen.

More crit means more threat and more elusive brew stacks.

Copied and pasted from another thread. I wrote it, just lazy. =)

Edit: This is mainly a 10m build. 25m will see you using a different priority.
Edited by Mayonakahana on 2/5/2013 11:05 AM PST
Reply Quote
90 Pandaren Monk
10120
So for someone who wants to just do 5 man heroics and the occasional raid finder, would 10% expertise be okay? Usually I don't have issues with threat unless someone is 480+ item level or taunts off. I hate the idea of reforging crit and mastery to expertise if it won't really be used.
Reply Quote
90 Pandaren Monk
12115
Agil > 7.5% hit = 15% exp > haste > crit > mastery.

15% exp does more then "ensure your keg smash is never parried," It will also mean more Gift of the Ox procs, and elusive brew stacks from less white hits being parried or dodged. Dodge and Parry are very lackluster after you get your active mitigation up. Shuffle gives 20% parry, 20% stagger so long as it is maintained, and 30% dodge from elusive brew.

Haste is only needed until you are comfortable with your energy regen.

More crit means more threat and more elusive brew stacks.

Copied and pasted from another thread. I wrote it, just lazy. =)

Edit: This is mainly a 10m build. 25m will see you using a different priority.


This is true, except that hit/exp doesnt effect elusive brew. Because of the way the physical attack table works (unless they changed it from cata, which i dont think they did), unless your chance to miss, be dodged, parried, blocked or have a glancing blow (are those even in the game anymore) are so high that you start pushing critical attacks off the table, then they have no effect on the chance to crit whatsoever.

For more information on the attack table, go to http://www.wowpedia.org/Attack_table.

That being said, I'm putting haste before exp (I'm already at 7.5% hit and 7.5% exp), but once I get haste to its "cap", I plan to cap out the rest of exp.
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Priest
0
02/22/2013 06:35 AMPosted by Saepio
This is true, except that hit/exp doesnt effect elusive brew. Because of the way the physical attack table works (unless they changed it from cata, which i dont think they did), unless your chance to miss, be dodged, parried, blocked or have a glancing blow (are those even in the game anymore) are so high that you start pushing critical attacks off the table, then they have no effect on the chance to crit whatsoever


Glancing blows -are- still in the game, but if you're suffering from those at this point, reforges are the LAST of your worries.

As in, you have an ICC (Not DS! ICC!) weapon to replace.
Reply Quote
100 Pandaren Monk
10775
You should ask Mr. Robot! He's pretty good at maximizing your current gear. He is, after all, a robot.

Seriously, though, awesome site for gettin' the most out of your gear. askmrrobot.com
Reply Quote
90 Human Monk
6715
This is true, except that hit/exp doesnt effect elusive brew. Because of the way the physical attack table works (unless they changed it from cata, which i dont think they did), unless your chance to miss, be dodged, parried, blocked or have a glancing blow (are those even in the game anymore) are so high that you start pushing critical attacks off the table, then they have no effect on the chance to crit whatsoever.


Read the website page. Learned some new things. Still don't get why hit/exp doesn't effect elusive brew. Brew stacks on white hit crits, if your target has a zero percent chance to dodge or parry your attacks, wouldn't that leave more attacks to be able to crit?
Reply Quote
90 Goblin Priest
11455
You should ask Mr. Robot! He's pretty good at maximizing your current gear. He is, after all, a robot.

Seriously, though, awesome site for gettin' the most out of your gear. askmrrobot.com


A lot of the time reforge websites don't work that well for tanks. They love to prioritize EH above all else, like we're playing Wrath still. I'm not sure if that's the case for that website or not, just a word of warning to up and coming tanks.

02/22/2013 08:28 AMPosted by Reflëct
This is true, except that hit/exp doesnt effect elusive brew. Because of the way the physical attack table works (unless they changed it from cata, which i dont think they did), unless your chance to miss, be dodged, parried, blocked or have a glancing blow (are those even in the game anymore) are so high that you start pushing critical attacks off the table, then they have no effect on the chance to crit whatsoever.


Read the website page. Learned some new things. Still don't get why hit/exp doesn't effect elusive brew. Brew stacks on white hit crits, if your target has a zero percent chance to dodge or parry your attacks, wouldn't that leave more attacks to be able to crit?


Only if you had a really high miss rate, chance to be dodged, chance to be parried, and also a really high critical rate. You basically need to be experiencing all four for crit to start getting "pushed off" the table. Example #2 in that link explains the phenomenon.

If you get to 7.5% hit and 7.5% expertise, you probably won't have to worry about your critical strike chance going down. The additional 7.5% expertise is really a "to taste" thing - some tanks swear by, others can live without it. If you want more consistent threat and Chi generation, it's worth considering - if you're doing fine without it than you don't really have to worry about it. Every tank should probably try out having 7.5% hit and 15% expertise at least once to see if they prefer the stability, but it isn't absolutely mandatory.

EDIT:

02/22/2013 08:54 AMPosted by Rikimu
Because spending 2500 rating into Crit produces a lot more EB stacks than spending 2500 in Expertise.


Agreed. If all you really want is more Elusive Brew and you're already at 7.5% hit & expertise, go for crit instead.
Edited by Emilei on 2/22/2013 8:56 AM PST
Reply Quote
100 Pandaren Monk
10840
Read the website page. Learned some new things. Still don't get why hit/exp doesn't effect elusive brew. Brew stacks on white hit crits, if your target has a zero percent chance to dodge or parry your attacks, wouldn't that leave more attacks to be able to crit?

Because spending 2500 rating into Crit produces a lot more EB stacks than spending 2500 in Expertise.

I used the expertise cap for 1 week and reforged out of it right away, just not worth the points. A parried Keg Smash only cost you 8 energy, 1 chi, and 1 GCD, it should be a non issue. BoK still applies shuffle if it is parried as well.

Currently for askmrrobot you should swap over to the Wind Walker spec the BrM stat weights aren't right until they update for 5.2.
Edited by Rikimu on 2/22/2013 8:54 AM PST
Reply Quote
90 Pandaren Monk
12115
02/22/2013 08:28 AMPosted by Reflëct
Read the website page. Learned some new things. Still don't get why hit/exp doesn't effect elusive brew. Brew stacks on white hit crits, if your target has a zero percent chance to dodge or parry your attacks, wouldn't that leave more attacks to be able to crit?


I'm gonna try to explain it as best as I can, bear with me (no pun intended).

Currently according to your profile, you have 7.44% hit, 7.41% exp and 24.22% crit. Your also using a 2h weapon, so you don't incur the hit penalty from dual wielding. This is how your attack table should look (If you get buffs or procs that change these, obviously your table will change):

Event - %chance - (die roll)
Miss - 0.06% - (0.01-0.06)
Dodge - 0.09% - (0.07-0.16)
Parry - 7.50% - (0.17-7.66)
Critical - 24.22% - (7.67-31.88)
Hit - 68.12% - (31.89-100.00)

Every time you swing (this is normal attacks, special attacks are handled a little different), the game generates a random number from 0 to 100. Whatever this number is is compared to your table to determine what happens to that attack. So lets say the number 29.48 is generated (got that number from asking a coworker who has no idea what im doing). that number falls in the critical range, so your attack would crit.

Now, lets say you got fully hit and expertise capped (im not gonna bother wondering where you got those stats without changing anything else). Your new attack table would look like this:

Event - %chance - (die roll)
Miss - 0.00%
Dodge - 0.00%
Parry - 0.00%
Critical - 24.22% - (0.01-24.22)
Hit - 75.78% - (24.23-100.00)

See how the range for your crits didnt change? The numbers changed, but the range didn't (you still have to generate one of 24.22 numbers either way).

Now my numbers may be a little off (someone can verify them if they really want, but for the example I dont think its really necessary), but hopefully you get the understanding of why hit/exp doesnt affect your chance to crit.

And while I'm doing this, i noticed something else im not too sure about. Can mobs block? I didn't add it because i wasnt sure (and like i said, for the purposes of the example it didnt matter), but i'm still curious.
Reply Quote
90 Pandaren Monk
12115
Just to add a little more, lets also say that for some reason you lost all of your hit and expertise. Here would be your attack table:

Event - %chance - (die roll)
Miss - 7.50% - (0.01-7.50)
Dodge - 7.50% - (7.51-15.00)
Parry - 7.50% - (15.01-22.50)
Critical - 24.22% - (22.51-46.72)
Hit - 53.28% - (46.73-100.00)

Still, youd need to roll a number within a range of 24.22 numbers, its just that now the number you need is a little higher.
Reply Quote
100 Pandaren Monk
10840
And while I'm doing this, i noticed something else im not too sure about. Can mobs block? I didn't add it because i wasnt sure (and like i said, for the purposes of the example it didnt matter), but i'm still curious.

Yes, looking at last H Blade Lord kill I got 6 total blocks for the fight. They are still counted as hits as far as applying buff/debuff/resource gen just reduced damage.

So doesn't really matter it's not going to push into your crit table even at 0% hit/expertise.
Reply Quote
90 Human Monk
6715
See how the range for your crits didnt change? The numbers changed, but the range didn't (you still have to generate one of 24.22 numbers either way).


Really appreciate you breaking all that down. I fully understand now. You should be a teacher if your not already lol.
Reply Quote
90 Pandaren Monk
12115
02/22/2013 04:40 PMPosted by Reflëct
Really appreciate you breaking all that down. I fully understand now. You should be a teacher if your not already lol.


Not a problem, glad I could help. I have a hard time explaining things to people because I tend to get pretty long-winded and ramble, I'm glad you were able to understand what I was saying. I had to learn all that back in my BC days when I was a tankadin. Back then we had to get enough block, dodge and parry to push crushing blows off the table, so it really helped me to learn exactly how it works.

I am not a teacher, interestingly though I do work for a university (computer tech). I just really like learning how things work and how I can make myself better. What really sucks is that I'm thinking about taking a break from wow for a while. I love doing the research and figuring out how to play my class, but lately I've found playing the game to be not that fun.
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)
Submit Cancel

Reported!

[Close]