Dual Wield Unholy and Dual Wield Blood

100 Human Death Knight
14760
Are both of these actually viable for raiding?

I only ask because they seem intriguing, to me.
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100 Draenei Death Knight
10590
Nope.
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100 Human Death Knight
14760
02/04/2013 03:50 PMPosted by Warcrimes
Nope.


Why?
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100 Human Death Knight
11140
02/04/2013 03:52 PMPosted by Wolvigar
Nope.


Why?


Because Threat of Thassarian is Frost-only.
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100 Human Death Knight
14760
02/04/2013 04:01 PMPosted by Deathquoi


Why?


Because Threat of Thassarian is Frost-only.


What about dual-wielding with double Cinderglacier for Unholy?
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100 Human Death Knight
11140


Because Threat of Thassarian is Frost-only.


What about dual-wielding with double Cinderglacier for Unholy?


No. Double Cinderglacier would just make it worse.
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100 Human Death Knight
14760


What about dual-wielding with double Cinderglacier for Unholy?


No. Double Cinderglacier would just make it worse.


How so?
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100 Human Death Knight
11140


No. Double Cinderglacier would just make it worse.


How so?


Cinderglacier is not as good as Fallen Crusader. Replacing FC with Cinderglacier would result in a DPS loss.
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100 Human Death Knight
14760


How so?


Cinderglacier is not as good as Fallen Crusader. Replacing FC with Cinderglacier would result in a DPS loss.


Mastery stacking with dual wield, and having double cinderglacier. Wouldn't that be even slightly alright?
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100 Human Death Knight
11140


Cinderglacier is not as good as Fallen Crusader. Replacing FC with Cinderglacier would result in a DPS loss.


Mastery stacking with dual wield, and having double cinderglacier. Wouldn't that be even slightly alright?


No, it would not, because Cinderglacier sucks compared to FC. Having two and stacking weak mastery on top of it doesn't make a difference.
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100 Human Death Knight
14760


Mastery stacking with dual wield, and having double cinderglacier. Wouldn't that be even slightly alright?


No, it would not, because Cinderglacier sucks compared to FC. Having two and stacking weak mastery on top of it doesn't make a difference.


Mastery for Unholy DK's is increased Shadow damage, though. Blood Plague, Death Coil, Blood Boil, and Death and Decay deal pure shadow damage. Soul Reaper and Scourge Strike deal partial shadow damage, too. So in that case, dual-wielding with double Cinderglacier and stacking mastery would definitely increase the damage output of those, wouldn't it?
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90 Night Elf Death Knight
8075
Why.jpeg
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100 Human Death Knight
11140


No, it would not, because Cinderglacier sucks compared to FC. Having two and stacking weak mastery on top of it doesn't make a difference.


Mastery for Unholy DK's is increased Shadow damage, though. Blood Plague, Death Coil, Blood Boil, and Death and Decay deal pure shadow damage. Soul Reaper and Scourge Strike deal partial shadow damage, too. So in that case, dual-wielding with double Cinderglacier and stacking mastery would definitely increase the damage output of those, wouldn't it?


Of course it would increase the damage output, but not more than Fallen Crusader and stacking haste would.

Sim it for yourself.
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100 Draenei Death Knight
15890
As DW Frost you want Razorice on your MH so that a mob you are attacking takes 10% more frost damage. You want Fallen Crusader on your offhand. FC's scaling strength buff out weighs Cinderglacier by a ton. While Cinder Glacier does proc more often than FC it works for two spells on it's proc compared to when FC Procs it has duration of a strength buff working for any abilities you use during it's duration. So lets say you have 15 Cinder Glacier spawns but 5 Fallen Crusader procs instead in that duration. Those 15 Cinder glaciers only covers 30 spells. Those 5 Fallen Crusader procs could cover up to 75 seconds. I don't know about you but generally I could use fill up to 30 spells in that time frame and FC even buffs my dry swings while Glacier does not.
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90 Orc Death Knight
7385
For Unholy, you can time disease application with Outbreak so it gets the benefits of your procs, and your activated trinkets, and then you can maintain those strong diseases until your next CD/proc cycle with Festering Strike. Festering Strike is the only skill that will add time to diseases without overwriting them, which to me is one of my favorite aspects of the spec.

So, Fallen Crusader is essential to maximizing this. You wait for your FC to proc, hit your on use Str CD if you have it, and keep them rolling long after the CDs have worn off.

For Blood, there simply is no rhyme or reason for dual wield. Blood has always been about large cleaving strikes, not fast hitting power. It also let's you have a DK and pally or warrior in the raid and not compete for the same weapons, just gear.
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100 Orc Hunter
10875
the answer is no and no... and then no.

you CAN dual wield as UH or as Blood and in the PAST UH could dual wield and do well in pve. currently there is NO GOOD WAY to do anything but crap damage or defense as either one doing dual wield.

frost would SUCK with dual wield EXCEPT for TOT. TOT is the ONLY THING that lets frost dual wield and do well at it... AND TOT is not allowed for UH or blood.

its tempting to think you can figure out some odd loophole and do this idiosyncratic thing that no one else has thought of... but there are A LOT of people who spend A LOT of time considering these things and they all agree... it does NOT work.

AND blizzard doesn't LIKE these ODD UNINTENDED specs to be VIABLE and so they ACTIVELY work to NOT ALLOW THEM.

They have a hard enough time balancing for the aspects of the game that they DO INTEND without having to worry about unintended builds throwing balance off. They don't want to have to try to keep the game balance for these unintended playstyles.

UH is NOT intended as dual wield it is ONLY intended (atm) as 2h and the SAME with blood. blizz has stated this.
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90 Goblin Death Knight
9430
Stop trying to bring back DW for specs other than frost. It's not coming back.

Why do you even want to DW anyway, 2h weapons are way cooler.
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90 Orc Death Knight
11375
Plus better 2h weapons are available. You'll be sitting with 2 463's for a while waiting for one of the 3 1h'ers to drop in LFR.

Now please OP, before starting another one of *these* threads, take a look around and SEARCH. You'll see that your answer has been answered at least 50 times this past week in similar threads.
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90 Orc Death Knight
8380
Are both of these actually viable for raiding?

I only ask because they seem intriguing, to me.


All it takes is grade 4 math skills and some reading comprehension to find out if it is viable or not.

Did you graduate elementary school?
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100 Human Death Knight
13475
02/04/2013 04:14 PMPosted by Wolvigar
Mastery for Unholy DK's is increased Shadow damage, though. Blood Plague, Death Coil, Blood Boil, and Death and Decay deal pure shadow damage. Soul Reaper and Scourge Strike deal partial shadow damage, too. So in that case, dual-wielding with double Cinderglacier and stacking mastery would definitely increase the damage output of those, wouldn't it?


Scourge Strike deals 130% weapon damage as physical damage, and up to 65% weapon damage as shadow damage. Since Unholy does not have ToT, it hits with only the main hand weapon, and 2H weapons hit a lot harder than their 1H counterparts. Take the Sha-touched weapons. Going by the Raid Finder versions, the 1H sword is 5343-9924, while the 2H axe is 11400-17101. Seeing as how, assuming the diseases are up, two-thirds of SS is not affected by Mastery, you lose more damage by dual-wielding than you could ever make up by stacking Mastery.

As for Soul Reaper? The delayed Shadow damage is the reason to use it, but you still lose damage from a weaker initial strike (it hits for 100% weapon damage, main hand only, before putting on the debuff).

And Death Coil? A lot of Unholy Death Coils come from Sudden Doom, which procs from main hand autoattacks only. Since Unholy does not generate as much RP as Frost, you will get more DPS out of stacking haste. More haste = more procs = more Death Coils, whereas more mastery = slightly bigger Death Coils. And you can't reach a level of mastery where a single mastery-buffed Death Coil is better than a second free Death Coil. It is impossible to get that much mastery in the game right now.
Edited by Arterius on 2/5/2013 10:40 AM PST
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