We hate Garrosh for putting War?

100 Tauren Druid
8610
02/07/2013 12:52 PMPosted by Arterius
And I'm not saying that Aethas being in the Citadel or having his guards with him makes him suspect. The issue is his proximity to the portal. When Jaina discovers the Sunreaver portal, she is obviously angry about it. But when she confronts Aethas, she doesn't use her own teleport spell or create her own portal to get to the Citadel. She uses the Sunreaver portal that was presumably used fairly recently to either take the Bell or evacuate the mages who stayed behind to try to cover the Horde team's tracks (or both). And that portal deposited her right next to Aethas.


Your theory falls flat when you realize that A) Horde Players never go to Dalaran at any point during that quest, and B) You're in the lobby of the Violet Citadel. B) will only be satisfied if you believe Aethas owns the Violet Citadel.

02/07/2013 04:23 PMPosted by Kynrind
She also went out of her way to avoid killing people


If you mean looking the other way while the Silver Covenant does the killing, yes.
Edited by Seiryu on 2/7/2013 11:49 PM PST
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90 Human Death Knight
9540
I don't defend Jaina's attitude, but Aethas wasn't playing it cool. He was giving smarmy, half-hearted denials. Jaina accused the Sunreavers, and his response was "I did nothing."

Sassing the most powerful mage in Azeroth is one of the worst things you can do, especially when she's already mad at you to begin with.
Edited by Eirwenn on 2/8/2013 12:19 AM PST
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90 Dwarf Paladin
14910
02/07/2013 04:23 PMPosted by Kynrind
You can do that in a time of peace. In a time of war, Cbredbeard, you do not have the time to conduct a months long investigation. You need to deal with it -now-. Not one or two months down the road. But as soon as possible. For some reason you seem to think that she should have taken the time out to conduct the investigation with an organization that held tentative ties to the faction that was currently engaging in a world wide war of brutal conquest.


Dalaran was not at war and Jania herself not more than a few days ago claimed how important it was that Dalaran not pick sides in the world. She tossed all that aside at the barest hint of betrayal by as few as one person from inside Dalaran.

Jaina had all of the Sunreavers rounded up to be held in a secure prison and to be interrogated so they could find out who did in fact support and was sympathetic to the Horde.


Which didn't win her any friends.

We know via meta information that Jaina was not the culprit. To suggest she should be a suspect is idiotic. As far as I know, the only portals that were allowed in were ones from Alliance cities or from Dalaran, and she found the portal that the thieves used. It had been routed through Dalaran to bypass the wards she had set up. This means there was Sunreaver help since it had to go to Dalaran then refocused to Darnassus.


Jania is a suspect because she could have pulled it off. Consider the magical nature of the incident. Not very many people could have carried out what had happened.

What's more, they carried the bell OUT of Darnassus and then portaled away. Suffice to say, if they could have carried it that far, they could have gone even further.

You seem to be very determined to paint Jaina as the villain here and give the Sunreavers and even the Horde a pass at everything. This for example:
It's intentional. Blizzard is doing everything it can to minimize fallout from the war. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the Horde itself. The only one responsible for anything is Garrosh and his entorage of faceless nobodies.
The Horde in it's entirety is willingly engaging in this war. The blame for it should not fall just on Garrosh and his goons, but on every race since until recently every race supported it fully. The Horde armies are in near full support of it.


Jania was acting like a villian and the Sunreavers as a whole are not obviously at fault.

And what I meant there was that Blizzard really is doing everything it can to make Garrosh the badguy and not anyone else (except Jania). We certainly won't be seeing any other notable Horde figures taking the fall with him.

Martial law has probably been enacted now. Jaina had set up a lot of traps and such. When you do the scenario, she makes mention that she has already caught and stopped dozens of attempted entries to steal the Bell. After it was stolen, why should she put up yet more traps to try and catch any traitor Sunreavers when she can kick out the entire organization or take them all into custody. Aethus had his chance to leave peacefully. He blew it.


Traps to catch intruders. Not ones specifically designed to catch a Sunreaver agent. One way of narrowing a list of suspects is to give them the oppurtunity to implicate themselves by setting up bait.

And the martial law jania has implimented is completely one sided and aimed at one segment of the popuuance, when a Convenant member could have very well participated in what happened.
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90 Worgen Rogue
13930
So having read the OP what war crimes is he referring to when he says both sides have committed war crimes? The alliance has been playing defensible since vanilla
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I hope Grommash kills Thrall and become the leader of the orcs in WoD....
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100 Blood Elf Mage
12570
NECRO.
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100 Human Paladin
9660
dude necroed his own thread. oh and dude grom is dying in this expansion theres no way hes getting around it. Durotan however....
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100 Draenei Paladin
13330
02/05/2013 08:56 PMPosted by Vyrin
02/05/2013 08:55 PMPosted by Darmonic
Proudmoore


Has not committed any war crimes.

02/05/2013 08:55 PMPosted by Darmonic
How about using the orcs as slaves


Isolated incidents not sanctioned by the Alliance

02/05/2013 08:55 PMPosted by Darmonic
or about to mass execute the blood elves for dealing with naga?


Executing traitors is not a war crime.


dude?!?! are you blind?!?! BOTH SIDES COMMITTED WAR CRIMES.

Horde: Bombed Theramore and a druid sanctuary in Stonetalon Mountains, plagued the city of Gilneas, etc

Alliance: Shot and killed orcs swimming to shore UNARMED (in Jade Forest questline)
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90 Blood Elf Warrior
9890
Posting in a Necro Thread!

10/21/2014 07:08 AMPosted by Alceides
Alliance: Shot and killed orcs swimming to shore UNARMED (in Jade Forest questline)


It isn't Lok'tar O'Hang on are we really losing? Crap I surrender!

Rodgers is simply respecting Orc culture and giving them EXACTLY what they asked for.
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92 Human Warlock
12070
It has returned from the darkest of deeps.
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100 Human Warrior
9955
02/05/2013 08:31 PMPosted by Darmonic
In World of Warcraft.

Don't comprehend pacifist logic.

inb4 War crimes. (both sides have committed war crimes.)

inb4 he is mean to other races. (His enemies live in green luscious forest while his people live in a desolate place, he has to be tough because he wants to see his people prosper.)

inb4 he is using the sha. ( that is just because blizzard has gave Garrosh way to many writers and just decided the best thing to do was to hit him with the villian bat.)

Honestly this garrosh makes zero sense from the garrosh we met in redridge, good job for messing up another one of your characters.(Honestly look at all the Garroshs you can see how they are all different because of the multiple writers this character has had.)

Illidian is getting returned because they didn't like his death but honestly look at Garrosh his father almost doomed his race but he came back at the end to put light to the name at Hellscream and you randomly make Garrosh this villain to just ruin Hellscreams name? honeslty IF Garrosh was a true Hellscream, at the end he would fix this.


When people say "Put the War back in Warcraft" they don't always mean the faction war. A friend of mine just means the ability to progress the lines of battle against enemies in a meaningful and permanent way, destruction/takeover of buildings, pushing the front lines forward against a foe, establishing new defenses.
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100 Blood Elf Death Knight
13895
10/21/2014 07:27 AMPosted by Vanargyros
It isn't Lok'tar O'Hang on are we really losing? Crap I surrender!

Rodgers is simply respecting Orc culture and giving them EXACTLY what they asked for.


Orcs surrender all the time its not a literal saying.
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90 Blood Elf Warrior
9890
10/21/2014 01:41 PMPosted by Nathreim
Orcs surrender all the time


Stop oppressing their culture you ethnocentric mana leech!
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100 Human Warrior
9955
<span class="truncated">...</span>

Several people in the Sunreavers delivered a weapon of mass destruction into the hands of Garrosh and the Sunreavers refused to expel them, or even assist in finding out who did it. As a result, ALL of them were suspect.

If you have a list of 500 people, one of which is going to set a nuclear bomb off in New York but you don't know exactly who, you'll still arrest all 500 because you can't take the risk.


Aethas didnt even get a chance the moment Jaina found out she said they all must leave when he tried to argue she ordered the purge. Shouldn't Jaina have done and investigation after becoming the leader of the Kirin Tor? She knew first hand that there were bad elements yet she did nothing. And who leaves such an artifact in an unlocked room with one guard who isnt even watching the damn thing?

You cant arrest and persecute a racial population because a handful break the law it is racist and a crime against sentient beings. The Alliance believe in justice that was not justice for all not some.

The nuke anology is wrong the Sunreavers stole it but they didn't keep or had plans to use it. The bell is not a weapon of mass destruction it would make the orcs stronger but they would be unthinking brutes easier to kill.

You want to point fingers point it where it belongs at Garrosh.


The bell was a WMD without a doubt, it had immense stores of power and would have allowed them to roll over pretty much anything if they'd figured out how to make it work, OR garrosh could have screwed up and unleashed a sha horror, either way it was too great a risk he'd use it for attacks similar to Theramore.

Hell, he could have used the power to make another bomb if his mages and engineers really put their minds to it,.

Also, it's not "A Racial population" it's "A population who have taken an Oath of Loyalty to the Horde"
Edited by Dantels on 10/21/2014 3:39 PM PDT
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100 Blood Elf Rogue
10985
10/21/2014 07:08 AMPosted by Alceides
dude?!?! are you blind?!?! BOTH SIDES COMMITTED WAR CRIMES.

Horde: Bombed Theramore and a druid sanctuary in Stonetalon Mountains, plagued the city of Gilneas, etc

Alliance: Shot and killed orcs swimming to shore UNARMED (in Jade Forest questline)


Not even remotely comparable. Speaking as an officer veteran of Afghanistan I would have ordered my troops to open fire on any hostile force stupid enough to try and swim at my unit while unarmed instead of surrendering. The bombing of Theramore was not wrong in and of itself. After all, the city was a military invasion port. However, the use of WoW's equivalent of a nuke was wrong. The invasion of Gilneas was wrong from start (invading a neutral third party) to finish (plaguing the entire country, killing/enslaving civilians and raising the dead).
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