Holy pally stat priority, HELP!

90 Human Paladin
5915
Have raid in ~30 mins (ikr, procratinating) and i need to know ASAP if I should be stacking mastery, haste, or crit hardcore for Heroic Stoneguard. Never healed it before, but I've heard that Holy pally's healing procs are based on our crit %, so should I be stacking crit, or stack haste/mastery?

I'm stacking spirit hardcore right now (10.7k unflasked) and I have no problems with mana at all - but i dont want to reforge/gem out of spirit because I like being able to spam heals without mana problems.
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Mastery.
02/06/2013 05:30 PMPosted by Paladindoom
I've heard that Holy pally's healing procs are based on our crit %
Where did you hear that? It's false.
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90 Human Paladin
13080
Mastery.
I've heard that Holy pally's healing procs are based on our crit %
Where did you hear that? It's false.


I believe he's talking about Infusion of Light.
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90 Draenei Paladin
10900
Int> Mastery > haste (1952) > crit > haste

Spirit to comfort
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02/06/2013 08:22 PMPosted by Areos
I believe he's talking about Infusion of Light.

Oh right. That's way down on the list of things to worry about really, especially given Holy Shock has such a high crit-rate naturally.
Edited by Tarski on 2/6/2013 8:50 PM PST
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90 Draenei Paladin
20470
Avoid haste, spirit to mastery to crit.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
12465
02/07/2013 08:27 AMPosted by Eloderung
Avoid haste, spirit to mastery to crit.


Oh my, I haven't seen your name in a long time. How have you been?

I don't get why any paladin is STILL pushing Haste. This is my stat priority as well.

Riôt
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90 Draenei Paladin
13095
02/07/2013 08:27 AMPosted by Eloderung
Avoid haste, spirit to mastery to crit.


I agree (somewhat), noting that Haste vs. Crit is largely irrelevant at our current gear levels because we are placing such emphasis on Spirit and Mastery. It really only comes into play when you have a piece with both Haste and Crit, and you're debating which of the two stats is more subpar.

In future tiers, Holy Paladins will most likely be able to back off on Spirit and reforge into a bit of either Crit or Haste (Firelands-style gearing, I suppose). A lot of people default to Haste because it's reliable, but I'd actually say that in practice Crit would win out due to the synergy with both Infusion of Light and your Illuminated Healing shields, not to mention the mana efficiency will allow you more leeway with Spirit than you would had you chosen Haste.

But we'll have to see how it shakes out. It's definitely not the same argument it was back in Firelands though, because our Mastery is a lot more potent, so the "Crit doubles your Mastery shields" argument is quite a bit more convincing.
Edited by Tailias on 2/7/2013 12:28 PM PST
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
12465
02/07/2013 12:27 PMPosted by Tailias
A lot of people default to Haste because it's reliable, but I'd actually say that in practice Crit would win out due to the synergy with both Infusion of Light and your Illuminated Healing shields


It's definitely not the same argument it was back in Firelands though, because our Mastery is a lot more potent, so the "Crit doubles your Mastery shields" argument is quite a bit more convincing.


Actually - this was my argument early in Firelands, pretty much exactly. It was sad how long it took a lot of people to realize the truth of it.

Riôt
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90 Draenei Paladin
13095
There was always some truth to it, but it wasn't really undeniable empirical fact. There was a lot of grey area with gearing in FL and DS (one of the few interesting parts of DS, in fact, was testing out different reforges on different fights).

I'm predicting that as a supplement secondary (officially coining that term), Crit will be far better than Haste once we get to a comfortable/reasonable Spirit goal. Will it be more popular? Possibly not. :-P
Edited by Tailias on 2/7/2013 5:41 PM PST
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90 Draenei Paladin
20470
I wouldn't be surprised to see mastery/crit builds make a comeback.

I'll most likely be trying it depending on how the fights are in the next raid. I never do PTR anymore so I'll have to see then.



Oh my, I haven't seen your name in a long time. How have you been?


Bored :]
Edited by Eloderung on 2/7/2013 9:28 PM PST
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
5830
Haste is really quite pointless for a Healadin. Why slightly speed up your healing (by meagre amounts) when you could increase your throughput? Mastery is absolutely necessary for us. When it comes down to crit or haste... That's really tough. Hell, crit is possibly even worse than haste in conversion, so get rid of it!

If I may offer a piece of advice in general, you should try (as should all Holy Paladins) the Glyph of Divine Plea. The 4-5 second cast time (mine is 4.4 with no haste stacking) is so much better than 12 seconds of 50% reduced healing, therefore burning through more mana during a panic, seeing how it's so hard to time 12 seconds where you can stand around twiddling your thumbs. Why heal at half-power when you could take a few seconds (notify other healers) and simply restore 12% of your mana? Fantastic. I've met plenty of people who disagree, and plenty of people saying that I'm ignorant... But I'm never mana-starved in our raids, unless another healer dies due to their own mistakes.
Edit: I don't mean that hatefully! Stuff happens. xD

I hope you're enjoying your Healadin. They've certainly changed (I wasn't here for Cataclysm, but have since came back for Pandaria), but I think we're definitely more versatile these days. Super fun! Please take care, friend, and good luck!
Edited by Zokura on 2/9/2013 1:29 AM PST
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90 Blood Elf Priest
6635
Haste is really quite pointless for a Healadin. Why slightly speed up your healing (by meagre amounts) when you could increase your throughput? Mastery is absolutely necessary for us. When it comes down to crit or haste... That's really tough. Hell, crit is possibly even worse than haste in conversion, so get rid of it!

If I may offer a piece of advice in general, you should try (as should all Holy Paladins) the Glyph of Divine Plea. The 4-5 second cast time (mine is 4.4 with no haste stacking) is so much better than 12 seconds of 50% reduced healing, therefore burning through more mana during a panic, seeing how it's so hard to time 12 seconds where you can stand around twiddling your thumbs. Why heal at half-power when you could take a few seconds (notify other healers) and simply restore 12% of your mana? Fantastic. I've met plenty of people who disagree, and plenty of people saying that I'm ignorant... But I'm never mana-starved in our raids, unless another healer dies due to their own mistakes.
Edit: I don't mean that hatefully! Stuff happens. xD

I hope you're enjoying your Healadin. They've certainly changed (I wasn't here for Cataclysm, but have since came back for Pandaria), but I think we're definitely more versatile these days. Super fun! Please take care, friend, and good luck!


While I may not agree with your entire post, I definitely agree on the Divine Plea glyph. There's very little reason to not take it, as far as raiding goes (Challenge Modes/5-mans and PvP are a different story of course). If you can afford to slack off healing for 12 secs during raids, you can USUALLY find time for a 4-5 sec cast. You may not be able to use it at exactly the times you did with it unglyphed (due to movement or certain mechanics) but I'm sure there are multiple times in every fight where there is little to no healing required and you can cast just ONE Divine Plea every 2 mins.
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90 Tauren Paladin
0
If I may offer a piece of advice in general, you should try (as should all Holy Paladins) the Glyph of Divine Plea. The 4-5 second cast time (mine is 4.4 with no haste stacking) is so much better than 12 seconds of 50% reduced healing, therefore burning through more mana during a panic, seeing how it's so hard to time 12 seconds where you can stand around twiddling your thumbs.


Ahem. Nine seconds. ;)

I prefer being without it in most cases. While it is technically nine seconds, 3 seconds are consumed casting it and a Holy Shock that will come off cooldown during the duration (yes, the Holy Shock will be at half healing, but the Holy Power gain will totally be at full strength, so only a marginal loss!). And one can also precast a solid heal towards the end, shaving off another second or so. The few seconds left over I use to scope out the raid, get a good overview of upcoming DBM markers, use utility specials, find out where I've hidden my mana potion on my hotbar just in case, and in general just take a breather.

And move, of course. Sweet potatoes, I love being able to recover mana and move at the same time. On the other hand, there are definitely fights, especially now that my guild is starting to 2-heal a lot more, where I could be losing a Divine Plea as I twiddle my thumbs with it off-cooldown until a safe time to use it pops up. And it's not like I really *use* that Flash of Light glyph.

On topic, yeppers, Spirit > Mastery > Crit > Haste, so long as haste doesn't drop off too far, which I don't see happening from the way gear is itemized.
Edited by Wards on 2/9/2013 7:39 AM PST
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90 Draenei Paladin
20470
I don't know where I'd find a glyph slot for DP. In any case, the ability to Shock, melee, move, and use cooldowns is worthwhile for me to not utilize the glyph.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
8630
Crit build ftw. Don't bother with spirit, u should be up close and attacking the boss to get your mana back. I reforge out of spirit and into crit as much as possible. if i already have crit on a piece, i'll reforge to mastery. It takes a while to get used to this build, but it's amazing, and can beat any mastery build paladin.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
7845
Goddammit Vi. Necro'd.
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90 Draenei Paladin
4825
Necro'd for post 5.3 patch.

Mastery is virtually useless now, correct?

I keep hearing crit and haste are the way to go.

EDIT: I've reforged almost all of my mastery so I want to make sure I'm not doing something wrong....
Edited by Cassandr on 7/7/2013 12:40 PM PDT
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
6510
Mastery is still seen as the best stat by most.
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90 Tauren Paladin
0
As always, a lot depends upon raid size, comp, and role. But in general, it's Spirit stacking until you are comfortable, followed by your choice of Crit or Mastery, with trailing behind (apart from easily-reached breakpoints).

If your overheal is low, Crit will provide greater HPS than Mastery. Conversely, if your overheal is high, Mastery will do more for you. So if you're 2-healing a 10 man raid, for example, you can see some stronger numbers with Crit. As well, spell selection. If you're casting many smaller heals such as Holy Radiance and 1 point EF's, then the randomness of crit becomes reduced.

Many still favor Mastery, however, as the proactive shielding is typically more life-saving than flushing out health bars quickly. As such, there tends to need to be a clear advantage before you favor crit. I'm going to toss a ball-park number out... say 15-20% overheal, overall, before even considering the swap.

Really, what it boils down to is that pretty much all gear and socket bonuses are favorable to us.

Be sure to check back with this question in 5.4, though, once all the paladin changes are finished.
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