If it's done right...

100 Blood Elf Warlock
9550
I hear all too often the complaints about some people's choice of Role Play. After I hear "so and so is bad. lololololol" I hear, "Well, it's possible to do if it's done right.."

What constitutes "done right"? Every individual has their own style of play so even if they -were- lore abiding, another person may not like it all for the simple fact that they chose that style of play.

Example: Dragons. So many people wince when they see that word in someone's player profile or if overheard in someone's role play. Most of the time people will shun them once read. What if they actually put time and effort into their story only to not find anyone to back their storyline because of a stereotype?

I've seen my fair share of terribad RPers, even RPing as generic civilians, but I think that as a server we need to be less quick to judge. Break out of our cliques to introduce yourself to someone trying to initiate their story. If there's anything I've learned over all my years of role play, is that the story ALWAYS evolves. Most of the time it doesn't even turn out the way you expect, and you're interaction with a stereotype could be the factor that makes or breaks someone's character. Your involvement could teach a bad role player to learn more and become a better player, and improve on their story. You could turn a fantastic role player into something fun that could possibly turn into a server event.

What say you? Are you the kind of person to shun a player because of their chosen race? Or do you encourage the possibility of something great?
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90 Pandaren Monk
8365
As someone who has been in the position of being judged by a stereotype that did not apply to my person I agree with this.

Things can be done right, things can be done wrong.

For every bad, non lore abiding character that I have encountered I have encountered ten or more bad, supposedly lore abiding individuals. I would even go so far to say that I have enjoyed my encounters with individuals who have rp unique characters MORE than I have enjoyed people who played 'normal' characters.

You play a fantasy game to be imaginative, not to stifle that imagination. If it is at all possible in lore then in my personal opinion I believe people should always give it a chance.
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90 Pandaren Priest
5885
Well here's the thing, I agree with you, but I also use the phrase "if it's done right". What I mean by this, is keeping to the same guidelines expected of any rper. Sure, be a dragon. I'm all for it, it's in lore, and it can be done. However, there's quite a few people who want you to bow before them, because they claim to be a dragon, and then gain all this power and advantage, purely by deciding to be. That's not doing it right. It's wrong, both ICly because even the most vile of dragons bait and wait, plotting and conniving, while OOCly it's just flat unfair. It's unfair to ask others to follow this without informing them ahead of time, and that's why people shun it, out of fear.

I find myself stuck between the concepts. On one hand, I want to be more accepting. I try to overcome any meta-game concepts and see if it works. After all, in D&D all we have to go on is imagination, and I've been DMing for over a decade, still do in vent in fact. But the thing is, when I then accept some ideas, the player takes advantage by being all powerful.

An example would be when I was running an event in Northrend, we were hanging out in Vengeance Landing. While standing there, IC, a blood elf approached. She decided to sic her core hound on a player next to me, an ally. I got involved, and while I try to avoid RP fights, it basically led to me having to try and fire off shots towards her. Now, I don't expect my shots to hit most times, and I welcome the rp involved. But her reaction was she was able to lazily toss a throwing axe at each shotgun shell fired at her, which miraculously deflected them. I then noticed she was a vampire. Not a San'layn. A vampire. I was annoyed because she took advantage of a situation that could be balanced, or even come to a conclusion of one of us losing, which I'm fine with, but that description of deflecting my shots was both unreasonable and unlikely. Hell, dodging out of the way would make more sense.

The problem stems from a desire to be the protagonist. We each want to be the protagonist, antagonist or so on, but essentially the main character. It can be balanced, but too many tv shows and games involved the protagonist being special and unique, which doesn't work when we all want to be the protagonist.

So, in short, I suppose the issue is, it takes two to tango. Sure, there's an elitist sense in the community to shun these players, but likewise, there's alot of people who abuse the creativity to unbalance the game and the story, just so they can play god. Hence, it's hard to look past it.
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90 Tauren Druid
10665
What say you? Are you the kind of person to shun a player because of their chosen race? Or do you encourage the possibility of something great?


All roleplayers are suspicious until proven quality.
Edited by Tavook on 2/4/2013 9:46 AM PST
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90 Undead Rogue
8300
Thank you for asking this question, since it's been eating at me for a bit. I think that the issue of "done right" is the same as the issue as determining whether or not something is or isn't !@#$ or art: you know it when you see it.

To that end, may I suggest that instead of discussing this in the abstract, we provide examples? If you think a dragon could be done right, show us how. Happy DKs and San'layn? If you've ever said it's possible, now's the time to demonstrate. I will return to this thread and do so myself later in the afternoon.
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41 Night Elf Hunter
0
Example: Dragons. So many people wince when they see that word in someone's player profile or if overheard in someone's role play. Most of the time people will shun them once read. What if they actually put time and effort into their story only to not find anyone to back their storyline because of a stereotype?


I can, of course, only speak for myself, but I've RP'ed with a couple of dragons (I think they were dragons? They were definitely in the form of Vial of Sands mount. And, mostly my characters (not this one) were just like, "Oh gosh a dragon. Dragons are really big" sort of thing? It can be a little intimidating? So it's not even, oh this person is a dragon *shun*, but just... I don't know. Dragons are very big, and very wise, and very... not human? (Says the Night Elf, I know XD)

I think I'd be fine with it if they were able to take a lead role, and explain how I'd be able to help them with the great and tremendous task they were working on, and then, perhaps, in the course of that, we'd become more familiar with one another and then we could actually RP more casually?

Just saying for dragons.
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90 Human Hunter
1500
For every bad, non lore abiding character that I have encountered I have encountered ten or more bad, supposedly lore abiding individuals. I would even go so far to say that I have enjoyed my encounters with individuals who have rp unique characters MORE than I have enjoyed people who played 'normal' characters.


^ Pretty much this. I'd rather RP with someone a bit more on the unusual spectrum and enjoy how much they have fun with their concept, than someone strictly lore abiding who is so stiff that everything out of their character's mouth is just something from Wowpedia.

...I can read the lore myself, I don't need to listen to it recited through IC means. I'd rather characters who go running and splashing through it and having fun and making something happen that I haven't experienced before.

I know I don't usually remember much of the day-to-day RP, but I and my friends *always* remember the RP with others who are unique.

A year and a half later, Larrk and I still recall squealing and 'oh my god that is neat' a guy who was RPing an Ethereal. He was transmogged out like one, talked like one, and had every bit of demeanour like one as he grudgingly gave us a portal - definitely for a sum of gold. Worth it.

One of the craziest, most-fun storylines I've had involved someone who was playing a Lich; another was a young black drake who was manipulating Ziichi while being bound to a blood contract.

Pretty much everything can be done well, but the sad thing is that even when it's done well other RPers will still sneer at it just because it's unusual. :/ And then those quality RPers hide and don't share their stories anymore because of the social pressure.

And then everyone complains there's nothing to do and goes and sits in the square to copy and paste from Wowpedia again.
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88 Night Elf Rogue
7485
Did somebody say Demon Hunters?
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100 Goblin Hunter
14065
The Trade Baron gave a pretty good idea of what "done right" means.

Basically everything is "done right" unless it has a few characteristics, like being a sue (Lance Topsail is the brother of Gallywix) being a "god among your people" (Lance Topsail is the unquestionable best shot in Azeroth, and his soul is locked away forever on another plane and therefore cannot die, making him invincible and incredibly powerful.) or something that breaks lore (Lance Topsail is a Human Alliance war veteran that decided to defect sides and is now exalted among the Horde.)

There could be other points, but thats the jist of it.
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100 Blood Elf Warlock
9550
02/04/2013 09:53 AMPosted by Areng
To that end, may I suggest that instead of discussing this in the abstract, we provide examples? If you think a dragon could be done right, show us how. Happy DKs and San'layn? If you've ever said it's possible, now's the time to demonstrate. I will return to this thread and do so myself later in the afternoon.

If someone were to present a situation then I'd be happy to add my input, but there's no cookie cutter way to explain how to play a race.

Pretty much everything can be done well, but the sad thing is that even when it's done well other RPers will still sneer at it just because it's unusual. :/ And then those quality RPers hide and don't share their stories anymore because of the social pressure.

And then everyone complains there's nothing to do and goes and sits in the square to copy and paste from Wowpedia again.

Yes! People need to quit complaining that they are bored and that there is nothing to do, or that there is no RP. There is plenty of RP to be had, they're just being picky and elitist.

02/04/2013 10:09 AMPosted by Harik
Did somebody say Demon Hunters?

I've noticed that's been a popular one lately. That's more of a class issue than a racial one, but still has the same stereotype tied to it.
Edited by Pai on 2/4/2013 10:25 AM PST
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90 Human Hunter
1500
02/04/2013 09:53 AMPosted by Areng
If you think a dragon could be done right, show us how.


This is my very special favourite subject. I will post twice like a bad. I've had such a great experience with dragon RPers, it's kind of become my happy place. :x

Black drake done right (in my opinion):
Asherion was bound to Salarous through a contract. When they were routing Twilight Cultists, they found him being kept by them (likely against his will). Salarous, a powerful warlock, was able to defeat him with the help of the team he was with. He offered to bind him to be his wings in exchange for his life, which Asherion agreed to. After all, he could totally plot and plan his way out of it eventually, right?

Fastforward to later, he gets bound to Ziichi instead because of Salarous' supposed death. He's to teach her Shadow and other spellcraft in Salarous' stead, and really sees the whole thing as an exercise in corrupting her. She's young and stupid, it can be done, right?

Proceeds to tear her apart from everyone in her life and isolate her, involves her in murder, all kind of bad happens. He's courting her in mortal guise throughout, because why not? Then bad things happen, and he has to keep up appearances, so he goes with her to protect Lassair and Balderos and help the Sigil.

He's exposed to an area heavily to do with the Old Gods and goes a little batty. It takes him time, but he eventually works his way into Outland where their influence isn't felt as much and he's able to subdue the whispers a little. He does a crazy loop de loop through to get her again, dragging her to Outland with him while he's a bit manic and crazed.

They sit together while he tries to take in the sun, and he decides that he'd rather be dead than be under the control of another, now that he feels how strong the whispers are and how much they've influenced his destiny and life direction. Heartbroken, Ziichi helps him kill himself, calls Marius and Alex to help her. Her parents take her home, she returns to life completely and irrevocably changed in her view of society and herself from the experience and affects he had on her, which continue to echo in the character to this day.

... Dragons can be done right, and I get excited every time I run across one.
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90 Undead Rogue
8300

If someone were to present a situation then I'd be happy to add my input, but there's no cookie cutter way to explain how to play a race.


I'm not really suggesting there is one, but I do think an example given from a poster saying "If it's done right" can be pretty telling, in the way that some people say, "Dragon RPers are doing it right if they hide it and never speak of it and I never have to hear about it."
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90 Pandaren Priest
5885
Just to add to it, I'm in favour of people bending lore and rules to create unique situations or characters that are interesting. An example is the above one on Ethereals. I love Ethereals, as much as goblins, and really really really desire them as playable races. As such, if this entire game was pen and paper, they would be. Due to graphics and limitations, they are not. But using transmogs and actively attempting it, within how Ethereals would act, is fantastic and I encourage it.

However, it's things like the Dark Ranger. It's not that the Dark Ranger itself can't be played, it's that you are tieing yourself to Sylvanas. You put yourself in a position where your interactions with other players is limited, because you're a high ranking position in the Forsaken military and you wouldn't be wandering around Orgrimmar unless you had good reason. And even that isn't a problem per se, it's more that you answer directly to Sylvanas and gain power over most forsaken players because of it.

However, again I'd be fine with it if you kept those limitations in mind and made them work for you. You're unguilded, you built up a transmog and look like one. You act within the concept of what you're rping, and it can work.
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90 Pandaren Monk
8365
I played a red dragon character throughout most of the later half of cataclysm.

In his backstory he became tangled up in mortal affairs due to an incident that happened to him. He had been near death and was found by a human noble (He had been fighting in his human form within the Grizzely hills due to the fact that he had been trapped there and was unable to shift.) and saved by said noble and his band. This led my character to go through the events of WOTLK alongside this noble, never revealing his true nature but protecting this man who had a blood debt to all the same.

The noble however died during the assault on Icecrown citadel and on his death bed bequeathed his house to my character (He had been unable to bear a son and found a perfect, if unwilling, heir to his line.). My character now having the power thrust upon him did everything he could to follow his friends wish until he was able to hand the house over to another individual (this time very much human) and left to help rebuild the flight after the events of Dragon Soul.

So it was very much a culture shock thing for my character, exploring what would happen if such a powerful and smart creature was forced into control of a human noble house. It was quite fun though I did have some rather unsettling ooc arguments.
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100 Blood Elf Warlock
9550
OMG, Areng, you have no idea how often I hear that and it's so heartbreaking. What's the point in it then? I'm not saying a player should parade a city in dragon form, there's simply no physical room for that, but at the same time it shouldn't be some super deep, dark secret that no one will ever know about except the player. The race becomes non-existent to other players and therefor you will not be that race. Everyone will perceive you to be the civilian race you chose to hide in.

I will admit, I do have a special snowflake character that I play. It's one of the reason why I made this post. I've gotten angry whispers about my choice with people saying, "Why can't you just play a normal character?" Well, I have a whole character list of normal characters. I get bored with it some times and I like the new challenge that my character gives me. It's a new way to for me to be creative.

A lot of people don't take my character seriously because she's unique and it's from a source that may or may not be credited as canon (WoW table top RPG). It's not like I'm running amok around the town, but my character is actually ashamed of her lineage and takes offense when people point out what she thinks is an obvious racial flaw. She wants to be something she can't become, which is a character challenge, and wants to prove herself even though she's extremely inexperienced. She is not OP, she's an IC noob trying to find her place in the world.
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31 Pandaren Monk
6770
In my opinion, the best rp is when someone takes a normal individual and makes that character special and memorable in some way.

In my experience, someone using a powerful character (dragons, for instance) usually does so for an advantage over other players. To be honest, dragons are (in general) more dangerous/powerful both physically and magically than most mortals are. Why, then, would a dragon be doing much with mortals? It is a hard thing to justify other than either "you taste good with ketchup" or "I see you as pawns/study subjects and want to play". If you come up with a good reason for interaction, then all well and good. If you don't come up with a good (and workable) reason for interaction, then good luck having people enjoy rping with you.

Basically, it all comes down to what the motivation/background is with the character.

And... my opinion may be very biased based on table top rpg play....
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90 Pandaren Priest
5885
Sorry for constant reposts, I'm interested in this topic.

Thing is, is your character well written and has story to it? I find that's the best solution. Like I said, I'm always willing to give people's ideas a shot, just in many experiences, within a minute they just acted like gods or all powerful beings you can only bow to.

Or they don't have a reason for the character. They made a Dark Ranger because it was cool. Not because they understand what it even is. That's a little frustrating, more because if you won't pay attention to that, what else are you ignoring? I mean, this is a world that is for more then just one person, it's polite to show respect, and that respect can be shown by taking at least some active interest in the world you've chosen to rp in.
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100 Blood Elf Warlock
9550
I believe that every "special snowflake" chosen to be played needs to have a flaw of some sort. That's what makes it more balanced. With dragons, they might be in a humanoid form to gain insight about their fellow Azerothians. They are not just beasts, but intelligent creatures and might be seeking companionship. I've seen people advertise recruitment for a whole guild of Dragons. A whole guild of dragons can't fit into a single city in dragon form, let alone a single one. Cities are highly populated and the buildings are close together to accommodate the large population. Perhaps they choose a guise to blend in and learn about other races, or perhaps they want to help protect said city and the people in it?

For the example of dragons, a flaw could be their true form's size. If they are in their humanoid form and are being threatened, they can't allow themselves to be backed into a corner. If they needed to switch forms to protect themselves, being indoors would be a definite disadvantage for them. They could possibly hurt themselves and they would cause structural damage in a place they want to help preserve.

In the situation of my character, she is a Forlarren.
http://www.wowwiki.com/Manual_of_Monsters/Appendix_Three#Forlarren
The exception being she's not night elf. Just about every known race has come into contact with the legion and therefor could be born from any race.

She has dark, ruddy skin, deep fel green eyes, and, to her dismay, a set of horns on her head. She has the potential to harness traits from her less than favorable half, but she is either unaware of it or doesn't want anything to do with it. One of the serious flaws that I have given her is that because she is half demon, she is at risk of warlock enslavement if the situation were to ever arise. Another flaw are the horns themselves. It makes her stand out when all she wants is to blend in and it makes her a target.
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02/04/2013 09:45 AMPosted by Tavook
What say you? Are you the kind of person to shun a player because of their chosen race? Or do you encourage the possibility of something great?


All roleplayers are suspicious until proven quality.
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87 Draenei Death Knight
0
In my experience "Done right" just means "Done by someone I like".
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