Why can't a GM grant my request?

86 Human Paladin
12880
Before I begin, please note that CM's are still extremely friendly most of the time, so I'm hardly knocking their professionalism! However, most of the time I contact a GM about an issue, absolutely nothing gets done.

For example, take Verigan's Fist; it's an old item that is no longer available in the game. A few years ago, I had lost it, and a GM happily restored it to me. In the years since, something apparently has happened to it again, and this time, the GM didn't do anything. In fact, they even told me there was no record of the item ever having been restored, which I found concerning.

So, whatever; if there really isn't a record of them having restored it before, then there's no proof for them, I suppose you can understand. But then, I find out that the Crazy Cenarian Cloak is the ONLY CAPE IN THE GAME with its graphic, is a reward from a quest I completed back in Burning Crusade. The quest, mind you, is still in the game, and is still flagged as having been completed. So naturally I put in a ticket asking if it could be restore. Yet again, it's a no-go.

Again, the GM's themselves are all very friendly and polite, so I don't wish to sound as though I'm insulting them. However, I find it infuriating that GM's no longer seem to be helpful. Maybe it's some kind of policy-change that I'm simply unaware of, but I honestly feel like I'm just wasting my time, putting in any sort of ticket anymore.

What happened to the days of GM's actually resolving issues?
Edited by Claymore on 2/4/2013 11:56 AM PST
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90 Human Warlock
7870
logs are purged after X time which is why they cant verify the existance of an item after a while. this is just the nature of any logging system they have to be purged to prevent the logs from filling up the servers

as for the quest one. (and due to crappy work connection i cant verify this right now) if the quest offers multiple rewards then theres no way they can verify which one you took after this time. as such they can not switch it out. (or replace) the restiction on swapping or replacing quest loot has always been time limited.
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90 Human Warlock
9555
Policy

They stopped restoring items when then Item Restoration feature was added. It goes off the same logs that the GMs can see. The logs don't store data for long periods of time. So if it's not in the logs, then it can't be restored.

Does not matter if you completed the quest or not. It needs to show in the logs that you had possession of the item.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
9825
02/04/2013 11:55 AMPosted by Claymore
What happened to the days of GM's actually resolving issues?


They have always been able to resolve issues. The key point is that, due to policies and procedures they must follow (lest they risk losing their job), they cannot fix ALL issues.

Restoring an item requires that there be proof that the player ever had the item previously. If they can find that proof int he logs, then they can see about restoring it. Logs are not kept forever.

Also, since the advent of self-help features, the Item Restoration service in particular, the GM's are more hands-off these days. If it's not available in this feature, then it's not available to the GM's.

Policies change and the game evolves. Not giving you everything you ask for does not equate to useless. You are simply asking them to do something that they cannot.
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90 Goblin Warlock
5765
Item restorations are now mostly performed by the items restoration tool on the support site. If the item isn't there, then its probably not available to be restored by a GM. But it has been brought up here in the past that GMs no longer provide quest reward restorations. I'm sure that's probably because of transmog..everyone would be submitting tickets for old stuff they destroyed years ago so they could have a purely cosmetic piece of equipment.

I'd rather they work to lower queue times so that they can get to some of the more pressing issues that are affecting game play..

I mean, I know that transmog is pretty fun but it's nothing game breaking if you can't get the exact look you want. And they're always adding more stuff for it, like the stuff you can buy on the BMAH, or the old replica PVP gear available.. I'm waiting for them to put in a Quel'delar replica so I can have that look back :3
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90 Pandaren Monk
12975
It's not about GMs being useless, as you put it. It's about you requesting a service that Blizzard doesn't offer.

They restore accidentally deleted items, via the item restoration page. They don't offer a service where you can select quest rewards that you may or may not have chosen six years ago. If they started doing that, we'd all have an infinite supply of transmog options available to us without using any storage, and support tickets would have something like a seven week wait time.

Your best bet is to head over to the General forums and put together a suggestion for an in-game option to retrieve old quest reward items. Maybe they'll add that option someday.
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86 Human Paladin
12880
Isn't that the equivalent of "Please don't bother us", though? Obviously, GM's aren't employed so they can cater to peoples' whims, but there should be a logical path of reasoning that leads to action. If I completed a quest, then it stands to reason I got that quest-reward. I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that, over the course of 5 or 6 years, someone may have accidentally deleted/vendored a Green-item.

As far as their logs... their logs of items may be limited, but I know for a fact they keep track of tickets, as I had a GM mention it last year, that he was looking at a ticket made many years prior. That being the case, they should be able to see the Verigan's Fist that they themselves restored.

I'm just left feeling like the only thing GM's are really capable of is looking at your character, and giving you really basic information, without really *doing* much of anything. Don't take that the wrong way; I have to assume it's a fairly demanding job, and I'm sure they have a lot of tickets to deal with. Still, I would happily trade the fast wait-times for some kind of action.
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11 Goblin Rogue
0
02/04/2013 11:55 AMPosted by Claymore
Before I begin, please note that CM's are still extremely friendly most of the time, so I'm hardly knocking their professionalism! However, most of the time I contact a GM about an issue, absolutely nothing gets done


GM's are just tech support employees. How can they restore an item when the utilities provided to them by the developers dont have an option to do that ?
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90 Pandaren Monk
12975
Isn't that the equivalent of "Please don't bother us", though? Obviously, GM's aren't employed so they can cater to peoples' whims, but there should be a logical path of reasoning that leads to action. If I completed a quest, then it stands to reason I got that quest-reward. I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that, over the course of 5 or 6 years, someone may have accidentally deleted/vendored a Green-item.

As far as their logs... their logs of items may be limited, but I know for a fact they keep track of tickets, as I had a GM mention it last year, that he was looking at a ticket made many years prior. That being the case, they should be able to see the Verigan's Fist that they themselves restored.

I'm just left feeling like the only thing GM's are really capable of is looking at your character, and giving you really basic information, without really *doing* much of anything. Don't take that the wrong way; I have to assume it's a fairly demanding job, and I'm sure they have a lot of tickets to deal with. Still, I would happily trade the fast wait-times for some kind of action.


Then make a post over in General, and ask them to add this service. It's currently a service they don't offer.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
9825
02/04/2013 12:22 PMPosted by Claymore
Isn't that the equivalent of "Please don't bother us", though?


No, you are asking them to do something they cannot do.

02/04/2013 12:22 PMPosted by Claymore
there should be a logical path of reasoning that leads to action


There is, but your request doesn't fall onto that path.

02/04/2013 12:22 PMPosted by Claymore
As far as their logs... their logs of items may be limited, but I know for a fact they keep track of tickets, as I had a GM mention it last year, that he was looking at a ticket made many years prior. That being the case, they should be able to see the Verigan's Fist that they themselves restored.


And at some point, there must be a line drawn to where some personal responsibility must be taken by the player, and realize "I've made one too many mistakes, and my chances have run out".

In fact, GM's do make one-time exemptions in certain situations. If restoring this item was already a one-time exemption, then why would you assume they would do it again?

02/04/2013 12:22 PMPosted by Claymore
I'm just left feeling like the only thing GM's are really capable of is looking at your character, and giving you really basic information, without really *doing* much of anything


That's right. GM's are entry-level support, and do not have access to everything. Even if they did, there are policies and procedures in place that prevent them from acting unless certain criteria are met.

02/04/2013 12:22 PMPosted by Claymore
Still, I would happily trade the fast wait-times for some kind of action.


If they cannot act in your situation, nothing is going to change that. No amount of pleading, begging, bargaining, threatening or tantrums are going to allow them to help you.
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86 Tauren Druid
8280
There has to be a balance of what is reasonable against what is not. If you lose track of an item, it is reasonable to restore the item if you report it in a timely manner. If you lose an item a long time ago, that tends to indicate you did not care about the item all this time, so there really can be no expectation that Blizzard then needs to jump through hoops restoring something back to you.

Game Master's are there to help you when you cannot help yourself. Items are very much within the control of the player. My paladin still has his original Verigan's Fist because I took care to make sure I kept it. There needs to be a modicum of self-responsibility and players need to own their game play consequences.
Edited by Hruund on 2/4/2013 12:41 PM PST
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85 Tauren Paladin
0
There has to be a balance of what is reasonable against what is not. If you lose track of an item, it is reasonable to restore the item if you report it in a timely manner. If you lose an item a long time ago, that tends to indicate you did not care about the item all this time, so there really can be no expectation that Blizzard then needs to jump through hoops restoring something back to you.

Game Master's are there to help you when you cannot help yourself. Items are very much within the control of the player. My paladin still has his original Verigan's Fist because I took care to make sure I kept it. There needs to be a modicum of self-responsibility and players need to own their game play consequences.


^This!! Very well said!
Edited by Zuthon on 2/4/2013 12:49 PM PST
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86 Human Paladin
12880
When you've been playing a game for over eight years, juggling multiple characters, it can be difficult to keep track of everything. I'm very much a "pack-rat" in the way that I play, but it can still be difficult to keep track of things.

That isn't to say that the blame isn't on me, because it obviously is, but that's the reason I'm making a ticket; nobody speaks to GM's when everything is fine. The issue I took is that I clearly had the item restored once before. That's not me saying that, it's actual fact. Given that I also know, for a fact, that they keep records of tickets dating back to Vanilla, I know they can directly verify the item was in my possession, as they had previous seen fit to restore it.

I don't mean to make so big an issue of it, but I do think some acknowledgement needs to be made that clearly, something has changed. Perhaps there are simply more tickets than they can handle, and so they don't have the same amount of time to devote to each one, or perhaps GM's used to be more lax and now the job is treated more professionally. Whatever the case, there is clearly a difference.
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43 Pandaren Monk
11875
02/04/2013 01:09 PMPosted by Claymore
When you've been playing a game for over eight years, juggling multiple characters, it can be difficult to keep track of everything. I'm very much a "pack-rat" in the way that I play, but it can still be difficult to keep track of things.

Use the addon altoholic. It works great for this. Make a guild for just your bank toon. Take advantage of void storage. Blizzard has evolved to make it easier for us to store stuff.

02/04/2013 01:09 PMPosted by Claymore
That isn't to say that the blame isn't on me, because it obviously is, but that's the reason I'm making a ticket; nobody speaks to GM's when everything is fine. The issue I took is that I clearly had the item restored once before. That's not me saying that, it's actual fact. Given that I also know, for a fact, that they keep records of tickets dating back to Vanilla, I know they can directly verify the item was in my possession, as they had previous seen fit to restore it.

there is no blame. Stuff happens. Part of the issue is that they use the online restore feature now. If it isn't there then you usually cannot get it back. As far as the logs with millions of players how long to expect them to save logs. As far as you know they do not even track item restorations way back then. Bottom line, every item has a unique number identifier. Without an e-trail of that number GM's are powerless. Otherwise it would appear they are just creating an item that never existed. They probably do not have the power to do that even.

Game Masters or customer service reps. They do not have massive powers to do anything. Their actions are closely monitored. No one is gonna lose a job to break a rule. It really sucks your item is gone again. You gotta accept it and move on to other things.
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25 Night Elf Druid
0
02/04/2013 01:09 PMPosted by Claymore
Given that I also know, for a fact, that they keep records of tickets dating back to Vanilla,


No, you don't know that for a fact.

It's actually been stated by Blues now that logs do not go that far back at all. Anecdotal evidence suggests months at best.

It used to be records were kept forever. The game has simply gotten too large for that. There is just too much data. Active accounts with numerous alts. Inactive accounts with the same. Trial accounts. Each have a history of thousands of items.

If they can't verify it, then that's it. There is no fault of the GMs here. As you succinctly stated yourself:

02/04/2013 01:09 PMPosted by Claymore
That isn't to say that the blame isn't on me, because it obviously is,


Blizzard is under no obligation to fix your mistake. BUT..........if there logs showed it, they would. In this case they don't and they can't.
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90 Human Rogue
8620
02/04/2013 11:55 AMPosted by Claymore
Maybe it's some kind of policy-change that I'm simply unaware of


That's exactly it. When transmog was introduce Blizzard changed their restoration policy. They no longer restore quest rewards. Even if they can verify that you completed it, most quest back in the days had several options to choose from. There was no way to know what you chose. Also with millions of player's wanting to have a certain look, the policy change was done to avoid huge influx of petitions and also they want players to have a sense of responsibility when choosing quest rewards and a sense of responsibility when they decide to delete or vendor an item. I will never forgive myself for vendoring my Haunted Memto :(

02/04/2013 11:55 AMPosted by Claymore
What happened to the days of GM's actually resolving issues?


I guess your definition of what an issue is, is different to what Blizzard thinks. GMs are there to help players when there is a problem. If a character is stuck and cant log in or cant exit a BG, thats when a GM can come in and move a character.

When quests are not working they can try to fix the problem with the tools that they have. If they cant then they submit a bug report to the devs for further study. Typically the GMs are there to assist you when you are stuck and unable to play the game.

Wanting to have an item restored is not a situation where its preventing you from playing the game. I remember back in Wrath where Blizz was with the mentality of providing any item restoration, that lead to a ticket queue time of 5+ days and yet when the GMs provided said restoration the players were upset over how "long" it took.

02/04/2013 12:22 PMPosted by Claymore
That being the case, they should be able to see the Verigan's Fist that they themselves restored.


Why do you keep vendoring/deleting it? Why not take responsibility for your actions and just say "My bad"
Edited by Zulia on 2/4/2013 7:17 PM PST
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Support Forum Agent
02/04/2013 11:55 AMPosted by Claymore
and this time, the GM didn't do anything.


Actually, that is not true. They may not have been able to grant your request but that doesn't mean they didn't look into it or "do anything". Though the option to recover deleted, sold or disenchanted items are supposed to be done through the Item Restoration option on our Support Site, they still took a look themselves to see if they could locate the item you wanted restored.

Keep in mind that the Item Restoration option uses the exact same list that our Game Masters have traditionally used when determining if they are able to restore an item.

They were unable to find the item there, which in turn means that it is no longer available for restoration.

02/04/2013 11:55 AMPosted by Claymore
In fact, they even told me there was no record of the item ever having been restored, which I found concerning.


I feel they may have been looking at your secondary account and not the one you were on at the time. I am sorry for the confusion. I see the restoration from 2005, though what happened after that, I couldn't say. Item restorations have a fairly short window for restoration.

02/04/2013 11:55 AMPosted by Claymore
What happened to the days of GM's actually resolving issues?

Those days are still here, Claymore, we actually help a great deal more than we have before, but everything is conditional.

For instance, back when you had the item restored initially we would be unable to restore a profession if it was unlearned, even if that occurred during an account compromise. What we can do is restricted by how quickly the loss/mistake is reported, but we are often able to return the skill completely. That might not be important to you, if you had never lost a profession because of an error you made or a compromise, but that is a lot of time and effort to the person who lost it.

This is more a question of why were we unable to help you, with this particular issue.

The answer is simple is, in an effort to provide the best possible service we can to everyone it is sometimes necessary to say no.

With the introduction of Transmogrification it was expected that as folks were provided more customization to their appearance that they would want items that they may have acquired previously but sold or destroyed long ago. It simply would not have been feasible to provide such restorations for everyone that wanted them. Not without sacrificing in other areas.

That doesn't mean that our Developers aren't aware that there is a desire to reacquire some of the older models that may no longer be available to you. They have stated before that they are looking into what options there are.

Those of us who work in Customer Support are not liaison with the Development teams so we cannot say what may or may not be in the works. If you wish to provide feedback about the game it is best to post constructively in the forum best suited for the subject, the General discussion forum by default. You can also submit a Suggestion through the In-game interface.

02/04/2013 01:09 PMPosted by Claymore
Given that I also know, for a fact, that they keep records of tickets dating back to Vanilla, I know they can directly verify the item was in my possession, as they had previous seen fit to restore it.


Yes and no. Not all information is saved, our tools have evolved much over the years and information that may not necessarily be needed may be carried over.
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86 Human Paladin
12880
Well, thanks for chiming-in! Also, I'm sorry if my post came across as "hostile" or anything; I was simply a bit frustrated. I've not had much luck with tickets in the past few years (namely in regards to my old Naxx-40 gear getting destroyed a few years back), so I suppose it just all sort of boiled over. In any case, good to know that you at least do have a record on that Verigan's Fist having been restored. Just curious; does that mean it could still be restore? Or... not so much?

Anyways, like I said, I've had nothing but pleasant exchanges with GM's, so I can't complain too much. Plus, there's no doubt that wait-times have been improved. I suppose I may have simply misunderstood what sort of functions GM's are allowed to serve. Either way, I appreciate you taking the time to post!
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Support Forum Agent
02/05/2013 11:15 AMPosted by Claymore
Just curious; does that mean it could still be restore? Or... not so much?


No, I'm afraid not. An item would only be able to be restored if it was still in the deleted inventory of a character. This is the same list that the Item Restoration feature uses so if you do not see it listed there, a Game Master wouldn't be able to restore it either.

02/05/2013 11:15 AMPosted by Claymore
I suppose I may have simply misunderstood what sort of functions GM's are allowed to serve.


Many believe that our In-Game Support staff can do practically anything asked of them but they simply choose not to. The truth is we absolutely want to help when we can but there are some things we cannot help with. This is either because is it outside the scope of In-Game Support (i.e. bug fixes, alterations to game play, etc..), or we do not have the ability to do so (i.e. lack of tool or information that would allow it), or that the policy in place prohibits assistance with certain types of requests.

We do have a video that outlines a bit of what they do.
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