Random Battleground

90 Night Elf Druid
5130
The whole faction imbalance fight has been going on since they first launched the bg's. Ill admit I suspected foul play when the horde started winning almost every WG+AB while the alliance cleaned up at AV. WG seem to be a pretty even play these days, but the advantages given for AB (strait line from rez to center board control at BS) to the horde and the strategic advantages of the map on AV (bridge with a nice long fall, easier path to mini-boss) for the alliance still remain and effect those bg's. The rest of the BG's since then have been made fairly equal. Unfortunately the problem these days doesnt seem to be with map layout and more with group composition.

Its the q thats screwed imo. I dont know how many battles I've been the only alliance healer on the smaller maps...its frustrating because you know the horde uses "Healers Have to Die" and "Battleground Targets" the same way we do...what do you think goes through their heads when they see one, or no healers on that list? Throw in the fact that the game is pairing full mal against contenders and youve got a $hit$torm on your hands. Im sure this happens with horde as well. How are new players supposed to learn to play as a team when their team is splattered around the GY waiting to rez into another death?

We have battlegroups now bliz and a much larger player pool to draw from....any chance we can get balanced heal/dps numbers in the pug bg's? How about pairing up pre-mades vrs pre-mades? Maybe a gear score cap for each pug team? Maybe different battlegroups depending on gear score? Let the noobs kill the noobs, the deadlies against the deadlies, etc, etc Just a few ideas...

Putting Mal pre-mades vrs contenders (or worse green) players isnt fun for anyone. Putting a group of 100% dps vrs 4heals/6dps isnt fun. The best games are balanced, with near equal numbers of heals and dps. I personally would rather wait a few minutes to not be the only healer on the map than to get that instant que into a farming where I am the highlighted food of the day (Healers Have to Die puts a nice big Icon over my head). I play both factions, this is not a faction balance issue...this is a group composition issue that can be solved with in-bag/on char gear score and that nifty little LFG code you already have in place.

Thanks for taking the time to consider my ideas,

Cheers
Reply Quote
90 Undead Mage
1935
In the overwhelming majority of BGs I have been in the team that played better won. It wasn't a matter of gear or composition or which BG it was. Sure factors like gear & comp matter when the teams are playing at roughly the same level, but this is the exception and not the norm. My point is Blizzard is not responsible for how well or poorly a team plays... that is a 100% player issue.
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Paladin
6860
02/07/2013 09:19 AMPosted by Dinoe
inb4 "im not geared enough because the gear imbalance sux!!!1!!"


Darn stole ma' thunder...

And look, an Elemental Shaman stole my thunder. That's actually appropriate.
Reply Quote
90 Human Paladin
MLG
12835
No tl;dr... argh *pulls out reading glasses*
Reply Quote
100 Human Warlock
13695
Map layout imbalances are still in play, in favor of the horde. For example. In Eye of the Storm. Fel Reaver Ruins is always capped by horde first since it is right next to their spawn point at the beginning of the game.
In order for Alliance to get FRR, Alliance would have to run across the entire map and out number the horde at FRR AND any horde rezzing at the FRR graveyard! That is right folks. FRR graveyard is counted in the capping zone. NO OTHER graveyard is within the capping zone in EotS....only FRR.

In Silvershard Mines, the horde spawn location and graveyard is MUCH closer to the cart spawn locations and cart capping points. Making it MUCH easier for the horde to win the "race to cap the cart" at the beginning of the game. Thus making the horde have a clear advantage right from the beginning.

If horde lose EotS or SSM....well, you can't fix stupid players.
Edited by Novalee on 3/6/2013 8:22 PM PST
Reply Quote
85 Dwarf Monk
8925
Please do not listen to the OP, Blizzard.

Thank you.
Reply Quote
100 Night Elf Mage
14915
I must agree with Novalee, the maps in several bgs favors horde, and I have pointed out the imbalances to bliz with no success to date.

WSG, the horde have a shorter distance & no obstacles from starting gate to field and always get to the alliance flag room before alliance get to horde.

Arathie Basin, horde have better access to Blacksmith on both sides as the bridges are tilted toward farm, also, the flags at both Goldmine & Lumbermill are closer to farm then Stables.

Alterac valley was corrected back in BC when enough people noticed that horde had a 30 second head start to the alliance first boss because they entered the field half way down the map until bliz finally moved the horde starting gate to be equal to the alliance starting gate.

EotS is a joke because horde are closer to BeT, FRR & mid even with the platforms lowered the horde are already capping FR & BET & halfway to mid while alliance are still running in.

Silvershard Mines, agreed, horde has the advantage map-wise.

Battle for Gilneas, Mines is closer to Watterworks with no obstacles so it is much easier for horde to get 2 flags before alliance.

Twin Peaks is similar to WSG in the map design allowing horde to be closer with less obstacles to alliance flag room.

The last time I was in Temple of Kotamogu I watched horde win with one orb while alliance had 3, both teams were battling in mid but horde points were counting out 2 to alliance 1, which is really a complete waste of time to enter as alliance since there is no way to win that battleground unless you own all 4 orbs.

I've played in Strand where horde can plow through the walls & hit the relic in 90 seconds while it takes alliance doing the same thing 130 seconds. I've been in battles where alliance have simply plowed through the horde team to the relic & battles where the horde team has plowed through & the timer is about 30 seconds difference.

Isle of Conquest, the horde tend to "turtle" in their keep which typically is a losing battle and alliance seem to be able to dominate this one most of the time, although when you look at the map nodes seem closer to horde keep.

I haven't played Deepwind Gorge enough yet, but this one seems pretty level so far.

I'm probably a bit anal with these bgs but I've played them enough to be able to spot an unfair advantage and sadly most of the bgs do favor horde.
Reply Quote
90 Tauren Druid
7615
only bad players blame maps.

also, bad necro
Reply Quote
100 Orc Warlock
10485
its funny that you guys bring this up. alliance didnt seem to have a problem when everyone and there moms was alliance and you guys were winning every match back in cata.

WSG, the horde have a shorter distance & no obstacles from starting gate to field and always get to the alliance flag room before alliance get to horde.


the distance is the same the only difference is that hored likes to intercept while the tank goes for the flag

Arathie Basin, horde have better access to Blacksmith on both sides as the bridges are tilted toward farm, also, the flags at both Goldmine & Lumbermill are closer to farm then Stables.


we both know that aliiance for the most part always get lm and horde get gm. AB is preety well mapped out the differences are very minor.

Alterac valley was corrected back in BC when enough people noticed that horde had a 30 second head start to the alliance first boss because they entered the field half way down the map until bliz finally moved the horde starting gate to be equal to the alliance starting gate.


well we know that alliance always wins AV.

EotS is a joke because horde are closer to BeT, FRR & mid even with the platforms lowered the horde are already capping FR & BET & halfway to mid while alliance are still running in


you have got to get ur eyes checked lol its the same distance. all the way around.

06/19/2013 02:55 PMPosted by Sheraku
Silvershard Mines, agreed, horde has the advantage map-wise.


i will admit that horde dose have a small advantage but its not as much anymore with them fixing the spawn of the carts

06/19/2013 02:55 PMPosted by Sheraku
Battle for Gilneas, Mines is closer to Watterworks with no obstacles so it is much easier for horde to get 2 flags before alliance.


go into a BOG and youll notice that alliance gets to the WW flag first. the water really slows us down .

06/19/2013 02:55 PMPosted by Sheraku
Twin Peaks is similar to WSG in the map design allowing horde to be closer with less obstacles to alliance flag room.


this map i think is well balanced. the only thing i could say about this is that it hurts the horde to only have 2 ways to exit where the alliance have 3

The last time I was in Temple of Kotamogu I watched horde win with one orb while alliance had 3, both teams were battling in mid but horde points were counting out 2 to alliance 1, which is really a complete waste of time to enter as alliance since there is no way to win that battleground unless you own all 4 orbs


im sorry but you have to be trolling on this one last time i checked its a perfect square map.

I've played in Strand where horde can plow through the walls & hit the relic in 90 seconds while it takes alliance doing the same thing 130 seconds. I've been in battles where alliance have simply plowed through the horde team to the relic & battles where the horde team has plowed through & the timer is about 30 seconds difference.


last time i check we are both playing on the same map and doin the same thing. there is no difference to this map

Isle of Conquest, the horde tend to "turtle" in their keep which typically is a losing battle and alliance seem to be able to dominate this one most of the time, although when you look at the map nodes seem closer to horde keep.


this one for some dum !@# reason horde dosent know how to play it so good job to the alliance.

I haven't played Deepwind Gorge enough yet, but this one seems pretty level so far


i think they did a really good job keeping this one equal
Reply Quote
100 Night Elf Mage
14915
Leave it to a horde to minimize the one-sidedness of battlegrounds while completely ignoring the facts. Probably afraid bliz might actually fix them , leaving them to actually have to learn how to pvp without built in help from Bliz.
Reply Quote
100 Night Elf Mage
14915
responding the the "only bad players blame maps" quote.

As for the Orc, please re-read ToK, I am not saying the map is one-sided, I am saying the horde can stand in mid with one orb to ally 3 in mid & still win as points count or counted (before I turned it off) at a rate of 2 horde points to 1 ally point.

If there was a time when alliance constantly dominated all bgs then it must have been before bc (when I started playing) back when bliz first introduced WoW to the world? Because ever since it's been a struggle.

As you said, alliance almost always win IoC & AV & that is true, the maps are even in both of these so why are these 2 so one sided. I can tell you why AV is, because back in BC horde had a 30 second lead to the first boss and really didn't need to work very hard. Killing the first boss & heading to the final while back-capping a bit, horde could win this in a walk, only hope alliance had was to down Gal & high-tail it to drek, forget capping or destroying towers, it was all in Galv, all in Drek as the only way to win this bg prior to the balancing.

Now I know strand is the exact same map so it is possible there was an exploit of some sort where the demo was cutting down gates in one or two shots allowing the horde to get to the relic in less time. I do know that it takes about 130 seconds from beach to relic on the alliance side with a good team.
Reply Quote
100 Orc Warlock
10485
As for the Orc, please re-read ToK, I am not saying the map is one-sided, I am saying the horde can stand in mid with one orb to ally 3 in mid & still win as points count or counted (before I turned it off) at a rate of 2 horde points to 1 ally point.

If there was a time when alliance constantly dominated all bgs then it must have been before bc (when I started playing) back when bliz first introduced WoW to the world? Because ever since it's been a struggle.

As you said, alliance almost always win IoC & AV & that is true, the maps are even in both of these so why are these 2 so one sided. I can tell you why AV is, because back in BC horde had a 30 second lead to the first boss and really didn't need to work very hard. Killing the first boss & heading to the final while back-capping a bit, horde could win this in a walk, only hope alliance had was to down Gal & high-tail it to drek, forget capping or destroying towers, it was all in Galv, all in Drek as the only way to win this bg prior to the balancing.

Now I know strand is the exact same map so it is possible there was an exploit of some sort where the demo was cutting down gates in one or two shots allowing the horde to get to the relic in less time. I do know that it takes about 130 seconds from beach to relic on the alliance side with a good team.


in ToK if that was the case then it must have been a glitch but ive never seen a bg were we win with just holding one orb even if we were in the mid. now that will work with 2 but not one.

now in strand is hard to say because it really depends on how many demos you have, and how fast they can get to the first set of walls. if your down just one demo that can make the difference.

now to address your point the only real bgs that are favored horde imo is silver shard and thats just a lil, i will say it was a lil more before but i think they made it better. the others if there is an advantage its so small that it has to come down to how the team plays and i think we both can agree that pugs suck.
Reply Quote
90 Night Elf Druid
9215
Its impossible to balanced. When blizz tried to implement the role system and we had 50 minutes queue? not fun.
Reply Quote
90 Night Elf Hunter
9265
In the overwhelming majority of BGs I have been in the team that played better won. It wasn't a matter of gear or composition or which BG it was. Sure factors like gear & comp matter when the teams are playing at roughly the same level, but this is the exception and not the norm. My point is Blizzard is not responsible for how well or poorly a team plays... that is a 100% player issue.


I agree with this reply. I have lost 20 random BGs in a row today alone not because of the unbalance in classes or pre-made groups u face (a non pre-made who works together can beat a pre-made its no hard). But its more the individual players Qing for random BGs now.

Ever since the latest patch and the resil change (which btw is fine with me) random BGs are now something people who mostly raid and don't have pvp gear Q for. They see that free 65% resil as a magic charm and think they can go into a BG and just kill horde in their raid gear (PVP gear still outclasses raid gear with the PvP power bonus) and they don't even try to win. They just think they can go in and kill horde, which is ironic cause they normally end up getting owned. I have seen it posted in the BG chat more than once - "who cares about winning, random BGs are just something to do when bored" or something similar being said.

Before the patch I was about 50% wins and 50% losses, since the patch I am lucky to get 1 win for every 15 to 20 BGs I play cause people don't care or don't try to complete the objectives to win (alliance toon here). I like to win BGs and for conquest pts I run arenas to cap those so its not the pts I am after but the satisfaction of winning a BG. I get tempted to "drink the cool aid" and just go farm kills with everyone else, but then I see that 1 person or 2 people wanting to win as well and I go help them.

People who like to win random BGs and not just farm kills could really benefit with a BG that the only objective is to kill other players so people in raid gear and who normally PvE and don't care to win can Q for that one when bored :)

BTW a hint for people who don't PvP a lot and expect to just farm kills in your item level 522 raid gear and do top dps in your raid groups...enemy players don't just stand there and let u beat on them nor do they do the same thing over and over like raid bosses do :)
Edited by Delitefulsyn on 6/19/2013 7:40 PM PDT
Reply Quote
100 Night Elf Mage
14915
Yes, pug bgs are definitely hit or miss when it comes to good or bad teams, however, it has become an even bigger joke when Bliz allows huge pre-made teams to queue and technically "bully" the pugs. I've seen it on both sides where a group of 5 or more will queue for a pug & just farm. Back a couple expac's ago, Bliz did away with the lvl 19 "twink" by separating xp from non-xp players, I feel like a pug bg should be a pug bg & groups of 5 or more should have their own battlegrounds to randomly queue for, it doesn't appear that they bother using the "wargames" battlegrounds where it doesn't matter which faction you are on. Bliz could make it so groups of 5 or more queueing for a battleground can queue separate from the pug & "pair" those up and leave the pug bg to be a pug bg, allowing, of course, for random groups of 2-4 to continue to queue. I'm sure they have people bright enough to write the program that will do that.

"the distance is the same the only difference is that hored likes to intercept while the tank goes for the flag" (WSG)

(WSG) The distance is the same once you hit the field, but the distance from gate to gy is shorter with less obstacles on the horde side

"we both know that aliiance for the most part always get lm and horde get gm. AB is preety well mapped out the differences are very minor." (AB)

(AB) Blacksmith is the pivotal point & the bridges on both sides are angled closer to farm with no water obstacle to slow you down, yes a slight advantage but still a built in advantage, which is what I am disputing.

How fair is it that bliz creates these built in advantages for one faction over the other. This tends to be a problem when the developers take another look. (AV is a prime example of this). Once more, by giving built in advantages to one side makes that faction weaker in pvp in the long run and makes a statement that one faction is not as good as the other & needs in-game help.

My numbers upon inspection may not appear as though I am much of a pvp'r, however, my husband is and I watch him play often, this is how I can state with some confidence the imbalances in these bgs, however slight they might seem.
Reply Quote
39 Blood Elf Rogue
4025
I must agree with Novalee, the maps in several bgs favors horde, and I have pointed out the imbalances to bliz with no success to date.

WSG, the horde have a shorter distance & no obstacles from starting gate to field and always get to the alliance flag room before alliance get to horde.

Arathie Basin, horde have better access to Blacksmith on both sides as the bridges are tilted toward farm, also, the flags at both Goldmine & Lumbermill are closer to farm then Stables.

Alterac valley was corrected back in BC when enough people noticed that horde had a 30 second head start to the alliance first boss because they entered the field half way down the map until bliz finally moved the horde starting gate to be equal to the alliance starting gate.

EotS is a joke because horde are closer to BeT, FRR & mid even with the platforms lowered the horde are already capping FR & BET & halfway to mid while alliance are still running in.

Silvershard Mines, agreed, horde has the advantage map-wise.

Battle for Gilneas, Mines is closer to Watterworks with no obstacles so it is much easier for horde to get 2 flags before alliance.

Twin Peaks is similar to WSG in the map design allowing horde to be closer with less obstacles to alliance flag room.

The last time I was in Temple of Kotamogu I watched horde win with one orb while alliance had 3, both teams were battling in mid but horde points were counting out 2 to alliance 1, which is really a complete waste of time to enter as alliance since there is no way to win that battleground unless you own all 4 orbs.

I've played in Strand where horde can plow through the walls & hit the relic in 90 seconds while it takes alliance doing the same thing 130 seconds. I've been in battles where alliance have simply plowed through the horde team to the relic & battles where the horde team has plowed through & the timer is about 30 seconds difference.

Isle of Conquest, the horde tend to "turtle" in their keep which typically is a losing battle and alliance seem to be able to dominate this one most of the time, although when you look at the map nodes seem closer to horde keep.

I haven't played Deepwind Gorge enough yet, but this one seems pretty level so far.

I'm probably a bit anal with these bgs but I've played them enough to be able to spot an unfair advantage and sadly most of the bgs do favor horde.


I seem to play in the place where Horde loses in most cases. So I should complain because apparently all my toons suck.
Reply Quote
86 Tauren Paladin
12085
Bads will always be bads.....and always whine about something....few pointers
Quit keyboard turning....your game play will improve...promise
Que with friends...you dont even need friends on your server anymore....your game play will improve...promise
Dont que 10M bgs with greens...rather que 40mans and blend...your game play will improve..promise
Did I mention quit keyboard turning?....

I have horde and alliance toons...(you only play one faction you've only played half the game)..it's the same both ways in EVERY aspect...so quit whining

If there is one thing blizz CAN do to improve bgs.....split the 90 BG's into sub 470 and over 471; however you don't like that....see point 2 above :D
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Paladin
9785
I have never seen an AB alliance team with no dks or shammies. That's how you get to BS.
Strand-same map both teams.
Gilneas- alliance seem to get to WW faster
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)

Reported!

[Close]