A Fond Farewell, and a Plea.

90 Troll Druid
0
Maybe this is just me, as in I'm not paying enough attention, but I'm not seeing any PUG runs of raids right now. No one asking for extras if they are short, etc. I see the sha runs, but that's it.

If I'm online and I see someone needs an extra DPS to run, I'd gladly hop on board. You don't need to be in the same guild to raid. We just need to know each other a little better. I'm sure we can find competent people cross guild to fill in holes without ruining our responsibilities with our home guilds.

My two cents anyway.


You're not seeing them because the people who were slightly motivated to start up pugs are now just doing LFR instead of running pugs. It's much easier to see the fights without all the headaches or hard work.
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90 Blood Elf Death Knight
9230
Put me into the raid coach
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90 Human Paladin
11255
02/14/2013 10:27 AMPosted by Kamahri
There definitely has been a drain of talent on this server over the years, however I just don't see petitioning Blizz to make us a PvE server as a good option as that in itself will cause many people to leave the server as Blizz will have to offer free xfers as they did with other servers (I believe FTI came here when this happened to Dentarg, correct?) The other options of petitioning for low-cost / free xfers I really don't know if this is something they would do but if someone has more information regarding it please feel free to inform myself/others. If this is realistic option, and if showing Blizzard that there is a solid community on Zuluhed, unlike many of the other low pop realms, that might be something I would invest some time in helping with if it really was a realistic possibility.


This happens every time a server begins to die out and usually accelerates as conditions continue to become worse. I was one of the people that came here from Dentarg with my guild as well as the guild you mentioned, FTI, GYS, HK and many others. I don't know if Blizzard will ever consider making Zuluhed a PvE server but if they did it would undoubtedly bring more players to the server, for both factions.

Before the switch back on Dentarg things were really dead, and I mean REALLY dead. At least Alliance side. If I remember correctly there was a 1:20 Alliance to Horde ratio. Eventually even the Horde side began to lose players. The economy went to !@#$, raiding was pretty dead, finding new people was nearly impossible and it was pretty much a bad experience all around.

Once the switch to PvE happened though players started coming in from all over the place. New players at first, there wasn't much raiding going on. Then as time went by it seems more experienced players started turning up and raiding was more common. Now this is all from what I've seen the few times I've logged on to Dentarg since transferring to Zuluhed but it really does seem that the switch to PvE really, really improved Dentarg.

I think that this may be the best way to go, IF Blizzard would ever consider it. So if there's anything we could get behind it would be this, IMO.
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90 Troll Druid
0
What I meant by "guild only" is focusing efforts on recruiting people to join a specific guild as a prerequisite for inclusion on a raid team, as opposed to just seeking out people to join a raid team.

Zuluhed has a good number of competent, skilled players, often found in smaller guilds, who would be happy to raid if asked or sought out, but who aren't willing to guild jump. There's an even larger number of lesser-skilled players who want to raid, but need the benefit of a friendly helping hand--i.e. skilled, mature raiders stepping up to evalute and teach them.


Nothing says team more than wearing the same uniform. Raiding is a team effort; there needs to be cohesion and unity amongst the members. Being part of the guild and socializing with the members helps build chemistry and strong bonds. Why aren't people willing to join a new guild? Most guilds allow friends of raiders to join. If raiding is what someone really wants to do, I would thinking joining the guild they would raid with would not be an issue. If someone isn't willing to join the guild they're raiding with, then it tells me they really don't want to raid in the first place and are happy just doing LFR.
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90 Night Elf Druid
9510
Don't know about the rest of the raiding guilds, but we have tried to pug in people to fill spots on nights we are short, but when you have a 3 hr window to raid, and you spend 45 min trying to fill one spot, it really isn't worth trying to raid at that point. Trying to pug a progression boss is next to impossible as many don't know the fight very well, and honestly, not many people can just pick up on the mechanics that LFR doesn't have. This close to a major patch, there is a race to clear the current content, and where many of the more experianced raiding guilds would have and should have cleared at least the normal content at this point, have stalled out on progression because of the amount of players that have gotten frustrated to the point of quitting.

I feel that one of the issues may be a lack of raid leaders that can put together and organize raids. I know that it gets frustrating when half the group doesn't show up and you are left with 5 or 6 people that show up every raid night and then you can't raid because you can't find anyone to fill the empty spots. So people just give up trying and settle for LFR gear, decide that pvp is easier to get into, xfer to a better pop server, or say hell with it and cancel their account.

There is a lot more that I can ramble on about with the subject of raiding and our lovely server, but I don't know how many people actually read these forums. Seems like a lot of people now a days wouldn't come here to read the posts if it was a requirement. So here it is, any RL or GM that wants to get with me and talk about how to improve their raid team or learn some of the fights that they are having issues with, get with me in game, or reply to this post and I will get with you (since I have a lot of alts) and I will see what I can do to help you, your guild, and our server hopefully become a bit better on the raiding end. It prob wouldn't hurt for some of the more populated guilds to get together anyway and talk about things and throw some ideas around. I am willing to do what I can to improve things before we decide to xfer or just call it quits.
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90 Draenei Paladin
11290
02/15/2013 04:17 AMPosted by Mythicleas
Don't know about the rest of the raiding guilds, but we have tried to pug in people to fill spots on nights we are short, but when you have a 3 hr window to raid, and you spend 45 min trying to fill one spot, it really isn't worth trying to raid at that point.


But you see, if people were actively looking to fill spots early in the patch whenever there was a need, people on this server would start building up reputations with one another as responsible, productive backups. If you know you can count on people from Guild X to fill in holes on those raids nights where things just don't work out, it builds the community that's sorely lacking. Especially on a small server where we can't afford NOT to know each other well.

Maybe it's just me, but if you are chomping at the bit to move on in your raid, you have a 100% chance of failing to do so if you don't attempt the raid in the first place. I need to press that with my own guildies, too. We are made up entirely of in real life friends, so we constantly run into the dilemma of getting "too serious" about the game, but at the same time are dying to move forward when life gets in the way for one or more of us every raid week. Everyone has their own story, and maybe we just all need to chill out and stop being afraid of failing rather than not trying at all.
Edited by Theothoristu on 2/15/2013 6:40 AM PST
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90 Orc Hunter
20045
I feel that one of the issues may be a lack of raid leaders that can put together and organize raids. I know that it gets frustrating when half the group doesn't show up and you are left with 5 or 6 people that show up every raid night and then you can't raid because you can't find anyone to fill the empty spots. So people just give up trying and settle for LFR gear, decide that pvp is easier to get into, xfer to a better pop server, or say hell with it and cancel their account.


I think this is a good point as to why there needs to be guild consolidation. This is a problem across almost all guilds on this server, they don't have enough raiders. Other guilds aren't these scary places where you're going to lose your identity and lose your friends, they're more often than not very similar to you and just maybe you'll meet some new people who will make the game more enjoyable for you. If people are wanting to raid so badly, they need to be willing to make changes themselves and maybe give up that guild they've been in for 2,3,4,5+ years.

It's very difficult logistically to organize a raid even within one's own guild, and to ask raiding guilds to try and organize cross-guild raids is just incredibly unrealistic to the point that the people suggesting it really don't understand what goes into maintaining and building a raid group that can work together to progress through content. I don't mean this in a negative way, but I view it as a simple truth. For most (not all) players it takes time to build cohesion with others and their raiding group/raid leader to learn people's strengths/weaknesses and be able to complement each other during boss fights, etc. ... it just doesn't magically happen once you've thrown together 10 or 25 people (at least not for most people, the very talented can do this but there aren't many of those on this server.)
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90 Night Elf Druid
9510
Let me add this, how many of us have taken the time to train someone, spent the time, gold, and mats to gear, enchant, and gem someone, for them to just say thanks, see ya later, and they move on somewhere else. I know this has happend to me more times than I care to remember, but this may be why people are hesitant to bring non guild members to main progression runs. It is a risk that you take even with guild members, but when you take someone outside the guild, there isn't any real loyalty to that guild that spent the time to get you geared up. And it has been said, in order to progress, you need the same people every raid night so you aren't wasting time reteaching the fight to someone else. Most of the fights now are very unforgiving with enrage timers, and if one person slips up it will either cause a raid wipe, or you just won't have the dps to down the boss in time.
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90 Orc Hunter
20045
02/15/2013 09:30 AMPosted by Einthe
I have suggested that the raid guilds consider organizing some realm-wide LFR runs (readily and easily done) so they can 1) meet others outside their own guilds and evaluate players en masse for possible suitability for future raid spots and 2) engage in community building.


Again this seems to just be asking the already established guilds to put the work on them. As for horde side, we do try to PuG people even for normal MV runs but some people are even reluctant to get DBM or vent, which are essential if you are trying to teach someone how boss mechanics work or even how they can improve themselves with their gear/spec/class/rotation/etc.

Myself and other posters have also suggested that by eliminating the self-imposed barrier of "guild only" criteria for inclusion in a raid group, that smaller guilds with interested raiders would be a good source of stable and reliable fillers for the raid guilds. In addition, I am working to set up raid groups with the smaller guilds on the realm. We likely won't get very far in progression, but at least we are forging ahead, and taking solid steps to bridge the widening knowledge and skill gap between the highly-skilled uber-raiders on our realm and the rest of us.


To be blunt, you don't seem to be acknowledging the fact that the raiding guilds on this server have a hard enough time organizing their own raids. The raiding guilds on this server aren't full of tons of raiders who all have the ability and experience to help organize/lead raids WHILE teaching folks who want to stay in their small community guild but still try to raid. It's been said before, the guilds on this server allow friends and family from what I can tell so joining them isn't going to alienate you from those friends who may not be interested or are unable to raid. The bigger/more experienced guilds have a wealth of knowledge that can help people progress at a faster pace and could also most likely make you a better player overall. Guild consolidation is a must. It has to happen if you want this server to be successful.

I'm not saying every guild needs to be dismantled and destroyed, but if you're a raiding guild that only has 5-6 consistent raiders then that's a significant problem. That problem should not just be pawned off onto the rest of the server for other people to fix. Either create an established run that goes at the same times every week and that can build itself over time, or work with another guild to merge two groups of those 5-6 raiders into one. Not everything will be perfect, but people have to be willing to sit out some nights and it might just motivate people to perform better if they know they're being pushed for their spot in a raid. As long as people are mature about raid spots and people can sit out every now and then (this is something even your best players should be able to deal with cause people have to understand to realistically field a raid group, you need more people than your group actually has to accommodate for RL issues) you are much more likely to develop a solid group that can go into raids and learn together.

Don't be afraid to ask for help, either on raid strats or logistics. I ask for advice all the time from other people and it has helped me out tremendously. Ego's are a big issue in the raiding scene, whether it's elitism or people not being able to understand their not helping the raid (likely because they showed up w/o any knowledge of the fights or their class) and having to sit out. I've said it before, but raiding should be a fun environment where people can work together to solve problems that happen on wipes and progress through different bosses. People who want to raid need to be willing to both accept criticism and also have patience, not everyone is going to pickup mechanics as quickly as others will. BOTH sides need to be willing to work on this; the people who get it after an attempt or two should try to help the other people AND the people who are struggling with the mechanics need to be able to accept criticism and learn from whatever their mistakes were. This paragraph is a bit off topic, but it's important to those who want to raid and be successful to be able to accept certain realities and take the time to improve their own awareness and ability.
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90 Night Elf Druid
9510
I think one issue may be the fact that I am seeing people everyday asking for guild signatures and forming new guilds when the existing guilds are already stretched thin enough as is. There are, let's say, 200 alliance guilds on the server, and I only see 6 or 7 with any kind of boss kills. Now, figure at least half of the 200 are bank guilds or loner guilds like Shark, what are all the other guilds doing for fun. Can't all be pvp, our side sucks at it cause there aren't that many people on server that are willing or able to lead RBG's. I personally offered up 10k gold to anyone in my guild who can organize and lead a RBG team, then slowly they all left for another guild or server. I am just curious as to what people do that are lvl 90 and don't raid or pvp. You can only run and get gear out of LFR so many times before you are just there to be there.
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90 Night Elf Hunter
8495
absolutely true... thank you for saying it.
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90 Night Elf Druid
9510
Well I am willing to try to do what ever it takes to help our server out however we can. It just about killed me to give up on Lords of War, but we just didn't have the amount of dedicated people to fill spots for raids, rbg's, guild games, etc. So as much as I didn't want to have my members leave the home I built for them, I felt like it was a necessary step to take to ensure that they would have the people to do the things they wanted to do. We still have a few people that don't like the changes, but for the most part it was a very sucessful merger for both sides. Me and Einthe have been talking and we are going to try to get some GM's together and see what we need to do as a server to rebuild the population and get people interested in raiding and other activities again (other than just trolling trade). If anyone wants to talk to me, give ideas or opinions, or just ask questions, feel free to message me in game or reply to this post and I will try to find you.

We need to take it upon ourselves to help our server become what we want it to be again. If we don't do anything about it, then it will just fall to ruins like we all see it slowly happening now.
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90 Orc Shaman
0
This really isn't that complicated.

If someone started off on this server, decided they wanted to raid, and wasn't completely retarded, this is what would happen. They would join a guild that was looking for new raiders regardless of gear or experience, which never kicked or scolded players for not fixing their mistakes. If this player did not suck, they would inevitably become frustrated with the fact that the guild they were in never killed anything, because this horrendous progression did not reflect the skill or dedication of said player. The player then looked to join a competent guild instead. In WotLK, there were probably about 3 competent guilds excluding OR. If one of the few competent guilds had room in their roster, they would recruit this additional skilled player, this miracle on Zuluhed. If the guilds did not have room, the player would transfer off to a guild that didn't suck and could use the player, removing the skill from Zuluhed.

When one of those few competent guilds lost a player due to anything, this left a void. If the timing of this was really lucky, the raiding guild would be looking for a player at the same time that the skilled player was wanting to move to a competent guild. If it did not line up, the competent guild would be forced to pull an unskilled player into their roster. The competent guilds would always inevitably lose some of their skilled players over time, but because of the fact that the guilds were much more likely to be forced to recruit an unskilled player than grab a skilled player, the guild slowly became less and less competent. Then, the most skilled players in the guild find themselves in the same situation that the new competent raider in the first section found himself in, and they end up eventually transferring off to a guild that fits their skill and dedication or just quitting. Uh oh. This leaves very little skill still on Zuluhed.

I can guarantee you that in any guild other than <BlowPony> (because the raid group is made of over 10 said skilled players from the end of the second section) there are raiders that don't play their class well and don't fix their mistakes, but cannot be kicked due to the fact that there is nobody more skilled to replace them with.

The problem is the deficit in skilled players, its as simple as that. I just needed to give that example so that you know where they all went.

On a side note, OR avoided this issue by never having to recruit from this server. Their ranking was high enough that people on other servers would desire to join their guild and transfer over.

So there isn't really a fix to the problem, unless somehow all of the unskilled players holding the guilds back decide to simultaneously fix themselves.
Edited by Totemicfury on 2/17/2013 1:12 PM PST
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