A Fond Farewell, and a Plea.

90 Human Paladin
Thread seems to have died! This past weekend we ran 2 pug raids (one ten and the other 25 man of msv) and there were some decent players who were glad to get to raid. It seems we have players but they need experience. I am willing to do what I can but need help! Will this save the server? Of course not, but it's a step in the right direction. I welcome any and all help! Lets do more than talk!!
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90 Tauren Druid

I couldn't disagree with you more.

People get better by practicing. It gets amplified with better gear. You get neither if you never raid at all, and right now it seems like no one is raiding at all.

There is a fix to the problem: start organizing our small community and run things together so people get better skilled. It will never happen if we all sit around just !@#$%ing and moaning about it. Unless you truly think your guild is filled with the only guys that know how to push buttons in the right order so there is no reason to go outside of that.

The primary driver of player improvement is not practice, though. It's being motivated to get better. A raid guild that wants to clear content reasonably quickly needs raiders who will do their own research into their class and into fights, who will try to figure out ways to improve their own performance, who will try to take advantage of reasonable criticism and who will try to be a good team player. Most such people are going to already have made it into some kind of raid guild, and though running server pugs and the like is most definitely worthy of encouragement, the chances of finding someone like this by trawling the population of a server like Zuluhed is not high.

So that leaves such a guild with few options: recruit from off server, transfer elsewhere, quit or accept recruits that will hold you back. The first may not be possible, the second is expensive and frustrating (and often doesn't work) and the third is an admission of defeat. So guilds often choose the last and worst option: spend hours and hours wiping on content you used to clear with ease, followed by--when you do get to actual progression--spend hours each week where you know that it doesn't matter how well you play, because what actually leads to the first kill is that lucky pull where your all of your weak links simultaneously manage to not !@#$ up too badly.

Also, as an unrelated note: most people play worse with better gear, because with better gear the margin of error is higher and they can get lazy and sloppy and still not wipe.

This is what happened to us. Some of you ally might remember me, I was the raid leader and Co-GM for Renascentia during Wrath. When the last summer before Cata rolled around we had our usual seasonal attrition...people want to be outside and so on. We started recruiting and it became painfully obvious that we would be unable to continue raiding at the standard we set for ourselves with the quality of the recruits we were getting. Our last 25 man raid we brought a recruit in and it was literally the best option we had, and they were so bad we quit because it was a sign of what was coming.

We left and made a 10 man on Sargeras and the difference is night and day. The AH, pugging, overall quality of play is very, very different. The only reason we are back is a few of us decided to go casual and we have friends in Blow Pony. My group doesnt play enough for all those things to be a huge deal. But for any serious raiding guild, especially a 25 Zulu is very, very tough sledding. I don't know how Faded did it as long as they did.

The nuts and bolts of this is the server won't change until the people here change. If you want to have more high level action (pugs, good quality raid guilds, pvp) they players here have to adopt a more independent attitude. One hallmark I saw in my time here is there is a large chunk of players who are waiting for someone to tell them how to be better, or what to do. Hard core raiders loathe this. By and large (there's exceptions) they don't want to assemble a pug and teach everyone the fights, or what rotation to use. There's a whole giant internet out there for that.

Until more players here hold themselves accountable to be better, you won't attract and keep serious players. You can call me an elitist and say the better players should want to teach and help everyone, but the evidence here of them constantly leaving says they don't.

It boils down to a player mindset that is very hard to find here if you're trying to recruit and run a progression guild.
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90 Undead Rogue
Reason #127 for coming to Horde: You will always win the World Boss Tag if it comes down to a pvp fight.
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85 Human Priest
@ landem see zuluhed stats topic if you wish to know the truth!
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90 Orc Shaman
The difference between Zuluhed and Sargeras is simple--numbers. When you have greater numbers you have greater opportunites. When you have greater numbers you have more leaders, more teachers, and more players--hence better overall play.

There's nothing inherently wrong, bad or different in the attitudes of players on Zuluhed.

That's just garbage.

Ask for people to discuss what the issue is, and then bluntly deny the thoughts of the people who are seeing the issue from the top down?
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90 Orc Warlock
feed this nidoubleger some more troll meat. i for one am leaving, i was built horde tough when i started playing this game. irl friends moving around got me here, only to be abandoned and now i'm glad i'm leaving. your best bet is to cut ties if your a real pvp'er. nothing is here.
Buh bye scrubby 1600 paladin buh bye!
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12 Human Warrior
Raiding ain't hard folks, g luck on your recruiting efforts. However, few players will goto a low pop pvp realm where they will be ganked all day.
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90 Pandaren Shaman
GYS went to Alexstraza
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90 Orc Warlock
We carried your scrubby self on ally side in RBG check my priest Darkvadr silly one you might remember me from teaching you how to P
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