Dark Bargin or Soul Link for Destro PvP?

90 Human Warlock
6095
I'm really having a hard time choosing which talent to take as destro for pvp bg's and arena.

I like the immunity of dark bargin but i also like the boosted HP from soul link after you sac your pet.

Can anyone give me an educated/experienced opinion on this?

Thanks a lot! :)
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90 Undead Warlock
10990
Dark bargain. It is all around the better choice. I am sure there might be the odd time where soul link could work better, but overall dark bargain is always solid. A full immunity for 8 seconds is always useful, even with the dot after it ends.
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90 Undead Warlock
9470
both are viable, it really comes down to what you want. Dark bargain allows you to take massive damage and be unhindered by it every 3 minutes. but on the other hand soul link with GoS gives you the health boost which helps constantly for destro since Ember Tap heals a % of your health. my personal choice would be the soul link just because a Dark Regen + Glyphed Healthstone + Shadow Bulwark and soul link provides the same if not a little more mitigation than the dark bargain. you can take a hell of a beating with all those abilities up at once in addition to your ember taps. and you can do that every 2 minutes as opposed to the 3min on dark bargain
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90 Human Warlock
2935
Sacrificial pact.
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90 Blood Elf Warlock
7525
i use soul link with sacrificial pact for pve, but i guess for pvp dark bargain is better
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90 Orc Warlock
13705
02/05/2013 08:45 AMPosted by Fireheart
i use soul link with sacrificial pact for pve,


What sorcery allows you to do this?
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90 Undead Warlock
13730
02/05/2013 10:25 AMPosted by Vreivai
i use soul link with sacrificial pact for pve,


What sorcery allows you to do this?


Soul Link before you sac, if I remember right. It 'pools' you and your demon's health, than you get a boosted percent from the sacrifice.
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90 Undead Warlock
13160
02/05/2013 10:55 AMPosted by Zantutzuken


What sorcery allows you to do this?


Soul Link before you sac, if I remember right. It 'pools' you and your demon's health, than you get a boosted percent from the sacrifice.


I think he means GoSac.
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BGs and Arenas are different. Firstly, you're going to have a pet up in an arena, even if you chose GoSac. BG's you'll rarely have a pet. In an arena you're basically trying to get the other guys to blow their CDs and not blow yours. The time until your CDs come back is the time they have to setup the CC chain and kill sequence.

Sacrificial Pact is on a 1m CD and for me as Demo I get a 294k absorb shield out of it (not sure how much Destro would get). That's pretty powerful and it greatly reduces the time the enemy has to setup their kill sequence. Especially if you subtract the time that your own CC prevents them from running their kill sequence.

Using DB will usually make the other team just switch targets until your DB is up then they'll switch back to you. Some will just wait and not use CDs on you until your DB is up then blow them. The CD on DB is so long that it gives the other team a lot of time to kill you.

Soul link has more going for it than most people think, people talk a lot about the max health benefits but they forget to mention that you can use the blueberry 30% HP CD as a heal for yourself if you're just getting down. Another point is that you can heal the player, the pet or both. A Resto Druid with HoTs on both the player and pet makes him pretty damn hard to kill. If you and your pet get separated and you LoS your healer, he may be able to heal the pet instead. Keep in mind that your pet has better armor than you do so if a melee is on your pet, it's probably a good thing.

Personally I use SP almost exclusively now as Demo, but I'll probably use some SL as I start playing some Destro.
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90 Troll Warlock
16620
02/05/2013 08:45 AMPosted by Fireheart
i use soul link with sacrificial pact for pve


Are you a wizard?
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90 Undead Warlock
10990
A quick scan of the warlocks at the top of 3v3 ladders on a couple of the different battlegroups shows different choices. Each of the talents is picked at some point so there doesn't seem to be an absolute hands down winner.

I would take Brym's advice on this matter over my own. I like dark bargain, but I need to give them all another going over again.
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90 Orc Warlock
9140
Soul link is utter garbage and its ONLY used to combo with GrimSac. It makes you reliant to a healer. As a warlock i should NEVER LEAN TOWARDS THE HEALER TO SAVE ME IN PVP period. SacPact can work better if you think about it:

1. VW- You use SB to make his healthpool bigger then you can use Sacpact to get a HUGE Shield. Then you sacrifice him to use SB yet again. This move is very powerful counter for those that blow all of your CD's on you it works completly well with destro (due to ember tap+Healthstone+Dark Regeneration)

2. FH- Double Silence. Follow the same as step one.
Edited by Endymios on 2/5/2013 5:41 PM PST
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90 Undead Warlock
11145
02/05/2013 02:29 PMPosted by Death
i use soul link with sacrificial pact for pve


Are you a wizard?


I'm pretty sure he's a warlock... XD
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02/05/2013 02:53 PMPosted by Daveydemonic
I like dark bargain, but I need to give them all another going over again.
Something to think about is that "what works best" is also dependent on your enemy's skill level and rating. At the 1300-1400 level DB may work great because the hunter or warrior just goes straight for you and blows CDs and has no clue that you're even using DB. At that level if they don't burst you down in the first 30s they probably have no idea what to do next. In the 1600-1700 range I use a lot more portals, gateway an general CC than before. SP won't block all damage and you do need to do some work to save yourself, but you can do it more often. At the 2k+ level in 2's I suspect the Lock can make anything work and probably switches them depending on what comp he's going up against, but I'm not 2k so...

Edited by Endymios on 2/5/13 5:41 PM (PST)
Soul link is utter garbage and its ONLY used to combo with GrimSac. It makes you reliant to a healer. As a warlock i should NEVER LEAN TOWARDS THE HEALER TO SAVE ME IN PVP period.
This is a really good example of why you should look at someone's achieves just to get an idea if they have any experience in what they're talking about...

On a side note though, I was in a 1900+ RBG the other day and the opposing team was using a Demo Lock as their flag carrier, I expected it to be an easy win. Between DA, his pet, Fury ward, Soul Link, I assume he had symbiosis as well because they had 2 druids, and his healers, we just couldn't make a dent in him. We eventually won but we had to almost wipe their entire team before we could get the lock down. I was quite impressed.
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90 Undead Warlock
10990
02/06/2013 11:51 AMPosted by Brym
I like dark bargain, but I need to give them all another going over again.
Something to think about is that "what works best" is also dependent on your enemy's skill level and rating. At the 1300-1400 level DB may work great because the hunter or warrior just goes straight for you and blows CDs and has no clue that you're even using DB. At that level if they don't burst you down in the first 30s they probably have no idea what to do next. In the 1600-1700 range I use a lot more portals, gateway an general CC than before. SP won't block all damage and you do need to do some work to save yourself, but you can do it more often. At the 2k+ level in 2's I suspect the Lock can make anything work and probably switches them depending on what comp he's going up against, but I'm not 2k so...


You made a valid point about switching targets until immunity expires. I am not a top tier player and not even doing arena. I also have zero issues with being corrected or admitting I could be, or was, wrong. ;)
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02/06/2013 11:57 AMPosted by Daveydemonic
I am not a top tier player and not even doing arena. I also have zero issues with being corrected or admitting I could be, or was, wrong. ;)
I don't think you're wrong, in fact whatever you use is "correct" because that's what you're comfortable with and is working best for you right now.

Honestly, I just want to have a good discussion and see what other people do and why, it can only help me become a better player. If my own pain and suffering against other classes can give you some insight then I think that's great. I just wish we had more 2k+ players posting so I could learn something from them. :)
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Go with sac pet. If your arena and on cc duty on they're healer use your fel hunter you get 2 instant 3sec spell locks, a blood fear and motoral coil, thats 4. Or use voidwalker for your disarm (This is if your doing only a dps arena team). If you have a healer then take the bubble. But for BG's just keep your voidwalker sac'd the extra health is much better than an 8 sec bubble. B/c if you do use your bubble it means your in a world of hurt in the first place and popping your healing macro anyway. If you pop your heal macro with sac VW you'll not only survive that Oh Sht moment but you'll come out of it with about 700k hp. Thats better then having some 8sec DOT if you ask me.
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90 Orc Warlock
9140
02/06/2013 12:18 PMPosted by Brym
Honestly, I just want to have a good discussion and see what other people do and why, it can only help me become a better player. If my own pain and suffering against other classes can give you some insight then I think that's great. I just wish we had more 2k+ players posting so I could learn something from them. :)


The reason i said what i said about soul link because its true. Not only will you get trained by some warrir coming along but if you opponents find out that you got SL on your pet they will also hammer down your pet. This has haappened while i had soul link from this tier in the past. And Im not going back to Arena until i get my full malev set. Against Dreadful gear they will eat you alive. If they do baseline this again they should also take off the "cut your pet's health in half." This has never done in the past so why do they do this now? Most of our talents have been just "revamped" moves we had in the past ith a few exceptions. Its a bad joke
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90 Human Death Knight
2400
@ Endymios

From what you've said I think you are using SL without GoSac, which is why you find it to be trash. The only time you should have a pet is for a double silence. My warlock has 520k Health (full malev). In 2's when I go defensive you can't kill me and when the cds expire I have no dot. I guess my point is that none of the talents in that tier are "garbage" if used correctly, matter of fact, all of them are very strong.
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90 Human Warlock
8500
I would hate agree with the troll, Vladimiir, but it's got a point! The CD on Dark Bargin is 3min too long in a pvp situation.... Soul Link it's not total immunity, but it sustains you longer for those encounters in pvp that last longer than 8 secs, every 3 mins, if you get my point. I'd take 50% damage reduction all the time over 8 secs of immunity every 3min .... any day!

Vladimiir
Vladimiir
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Vladimiir
90 Troll Warlock
Redfrex
9350

both are viable, it really comes down to what you want. Dark bargain allows you to take massive damage and be unhindered by it every 3 minutes. but on the other hand soul link with GoS gives you the health boost which helps constantly for destro since Ember Tap heals a % of your health. my personal choice would be the soul link just because a Dark Regen + Glyphed Healthstone + Shadow Bulwark and soul link provides the same if not a little more mitigation than the dark bargain. you can take a hell of a beating with all those abilities up at once in addition to your ember taps. and you can do that every 2 minutes as opposed to the 3min on dark bargain
Edited by Exiler on 4/30/2013 8:27 AM PDT
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