Elemental shaman are weak in PvP.

90 Goblin Shaman
7805
And this is a problem, why..? I've never understood why it's assumed that every single spec MUST be viable in PvP. That assumption throws a spanner in the works of class balance between PvE and PvP. I'd rather they didn't tinker with us until elemental is changed so drastically that it's barely recognizable (ie, the upcoming arms warrior changes). Elemental shaman can dish out very strong single-target and cleave-ish AoE dps in PvE (parsed 99k tonight on H Garajjal in 494 gear, no complaints about that), and that's without even mentioning the various raid buffs and utility we bring to the party. I see nothing wrong with the idea that some specs should be tuned more for PvE, and some tuned for PvP.

Thoughts?
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I prefer ranged dps, never liked melee. So if blizzard uses your philosophy then my only option is to play another class :/
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90 Tauren Shaman
18590
02/05/2013 11:30 PMPosted by Knowyarights
And this is a problem, why..? I've never understood why it's assumed that every single spec MUST be viable in PvP.


In a game of millions of people, every spec of every class needs attention for every aspect of the game, otherwise those who play that spec in the situation they are in (pve or pvp) have a reduced playing experience.

Can't just say "Well elemental really shouldn't be pvping guys, go restoration.".
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90 Draenei Shaman
16690
02/05/2013 11:30 PMPosted by Knowyarights
Elemental shaman can dish out very strong single-target


Very few specs have weaker single-target than elemental at the moment.
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90 Orc Shaman
10835
Posted by Knowyarights
Elemental shaman can dish out very strong single-target

Very few specs have weaker single-target than elemental at the moment.


if ele gets lolrng then we have the strongest ST burst in the game.

elemental blast(rng crit)+(rng instant proc) lavaburst + (rng mastery proc) lava burst + (rng echo proc) lava burst + 7stack fulmination (rng crit)

eb for 85k.... lava burst for 45... lava burst for 30ish, lava burst for 45, fulmination for 110k... 2gcd's worth of time for 300k damage...

ascendance is probably the biggest burst cd in the game though. granted its one of the most easily stopped, but freecasting elemental ascendance is deadly.
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90 Orc Shaman
11285
If anything blizzard needs to focus on balancing hybrid specializations that have 3 separate roles such as shaman (melee/caster/healer) paladin (tank/melee/healer) and druid (tank/melee/caster/healer). i dislike your idea because it is basically absolution instead of choice. "Oh you want to pvp as a elemental shaman? Sorry go play mage or warlock if you want to be a caster". Yes elemental shaman are weak in pvp, but i love the playstyle and the lore associated with an elemental shaman. Is it too much to ask for developers to balance the caster dps spec of shaman and the melee dps spec of shaman separately from the healing spec of shaman? Granted yes it won't be easy, hell it might take a long time due to my belief that all classes and their specs should be able to be viable in a 3v3, 5v5, and RBG environment. At the very least could they just tell us and newcomers on the class information window that if you want to pvp as a shaman SUCCESSFULLY you must go restoration?
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90 Orc Shaman
11285
As to why i feel that every spec and class should be viable( pvp wise) is again, due to the choice. Why should someone be forced to play a class or spec he/she doesn't like just to be competitive? I feel that if every spec and class was balanced we wouldn't have the issue of class stacking. There is also the fun factor of randomness of what will you face in the arena :P. Currently in arena you are facing these specs = arms warrior, resto shaman, frost mage, Bm hunter, demon/afflic warlock, and sub rogues. 7 specs out of 34 (29 if you dont count tank specs).
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90 Goblin Shaman
7805
02/06/2013 10:37 AMPosted by Shamzeu
As to why i feel that every spec and class should be viable( pvp wise) is again, due to the choice. Why should someone be forced to play a class or spec he/she doesn't like just to be competitive? I feel that if every spec and class was balanced we wouldn't have the issue of class stacking. There is also the fun factor of randomness of what will you face in the arena :P. Currently in arena you are facing these specs = arms warrior, resto shaman, frost mage, Bm hunter, demon/afflic warlock, and sub rogues. 7 specs out of 34 (29 if you dont count tank specs).


I do see your point there, but it would be so much simpler and easier to balance if some specs were tuned purely to PvE, and others to PvP. It's incredibly frustrating as a hardcore raider / casual PvPer to have balances changes to PvP hurt what would be a strong class/spec in PvE.

I, personally, see nothing wrong with PvEing as elemental and PvPing as resto. I suppose not everyone feels that way, and there's nothing particularly wrong with that, but I still don't like the idea that every spec MUST be viable in both PvE and PvP or everyone's up in arms. It makes balancing the game must more complicated than it need be.

Every class should be viable in both realms of WoW, but not necessarily every spec. It's been like that for ages, and Blizzard's push to change that is screwing a lot of people over. I don't want to see shaman go the way of mages, for instance.
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90 Troll Shaman
6250
Posted by Knowyarights
Elemental shaman can dish out very strong single-target

Very few specs have weaker single-target than elemental at the moment.


if ele gets lolrng then we have the strongest ST burst in the game.

elemental blast(rng crit)+(rng instant proc) lavaburst + (rng mastery proc) lava burst + (rng echo proc) lava burst + 7stack fulmination (rng crit)

eb for 85k.... lava burst for 45... lava burst for 30ish, lava burst for 45, fulmination for 110k... 2gcd's worth of time for 300k damage...

ascendance is probably the biggest burst cd in the game though. granted its one of the most easily stopped, but freecasting elemental ascendance is deadly.


obviously one shotting takes some hefty rng, but it is really easy and quite common to take off 40-50% with some minor rng. ele hasn't been lacking damage in years. we are just very rare in pvp, so people don't know much
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90 Orc Shaman
3410
The problem with elemental and enhancement in PvP has nothing to do with damage in any way shape or form. Yes they are burst dependent but that's the name of the game. The problem with them is their defenses and mobility, which I assume (not being an avid PvE-er these days) can be a problem in PvE as well. I'm not sure if there is one, but if there is some PvE encounter where mobility plays a major roll, and the debuff (whether it be stun/root/long lasting fear ect) acting against it is non dispellable by a teammate, i can assume elemental/enh will suffer just as they do in PvP. The problem is game wide under specific circumstances that seem to arise more often in PvP than PvE, however will cause the same outcome in either.. and this outcome is 9/10 times a dead shaman.
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90 Human Paladin
7020
People like the concept behind Elemental Shamans. I, for one, made a Shaman simply because I thought the idea was awesome. All classes and specs need to be viable, because players all have different likes and interests. Besides, if you were to have only PvE or only PvP classes and specs, world PvP would be even more unbalanced than it is now. Hahaha.
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90 Troll Shaman
7330
I think you forget the logic behind a hybrid. People like rogues and warriors with the idea of being a melee. So when you have specs within those classes that are weak in pvp it is acceptable because they can still play melee no matter wat spec of their class.

However with hybrids...specifically shaman, players choose to play the class based on 3 different possbilities. Some want to be a caster some melee etc. It is only logical that all 3 specs should be atleast viable, otherwise what is the point of a hybrid
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90 Orc Shaman
11285
You hit it right on the nail in my opinion staticflowz
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90 Tauren Shaman
9275
02/07/2013 05:23 PMPosted by Slamcarrot
The problem with them is their defenses and mobility


This right here. I hit just fine in pvp, and I am nowhere near max geared for it. Half the time I was still goofing my 'rotation' or forgetting to use abilities altogether.

They seem pretty easy to lock out and screw over with totems now being spells, and nature lock-outs covering most of our abilities.

AND of course this expac is stun heaven. But you know. I still love my shaman anyway.

02/08/2013 04:57 AMPosted by Staticflowz
I think you forget the logic behind a hybrid.


This line is the most important. Even in the official Blizz guides for the past two expacs have described the Shaman as 'jack of all trades, master of none'. They are the ultimate hybrid with being able to not only do melee, ranged spells and healing - but they also get a large array of toys like totems, summons, protective abilities & CC.

On top of all of that, they can use shields. Well, at least 2/3 of the specs can. AND they wear mail.

So I'll say it again. I love my shammy. Always have. I played her as enh up to 80 two years ago, toyed with heals and loved that almost exclusively through Cata, and now I am focusing on Ele. If nothing else, I love the visuals and all of the VARIETY that goes with my cooldowns. It is a dang fun class to play, even if I get murdered in pvp.

Oh, something that's noticeable - the shaman has become very much a group player as far as ele is concerned in pvp. If you stand back behind the crowd and free-cast, you can cause a ton of trouble. But if you draw attention to yourself and try to be the solo hero, you die.

Maybe Blizz is trying to teach us a lesson. :P We're a hybrid support class, regardless of heals/damage. With our totems, it makes 100% sense.

Now, if anyone is going to hop in and say that resto/enh are more survivable, sure they might be a bit, but from the perspective of me watching the enemy teams in PVP... if you focus any shaman at all, they can die pretty quickly no matter what.

I still love 'em.
Edited by Jinglz on 2/8/2013 1:42 PM PST
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90 Human Paladin
6490
02/06/2013 07:31 AMPosted by Gistwiki
Very few specs have weaker single-target than elemental at the moment.


I don't know about that, from what I have seen there are a lot of classes with better single target dps then ele shammy's.
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90 Human Paladin
6490
02/05/2013 11:30 PMPosted by Knowyarights
(parsed 99k tonight on H Garajjal in 494 gear, no complaints about that),


that fight is set up for ele shammy's come on a 5/5 in a half min fight with the burst ele does.
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87 Troll Shaman
4385
So far I love my Elemental Shaman, stuck doing the MoP PvE content but still RBG as often. The only thing I am frustrated about is the 6 billion extra buttons I have to manage now that they removed the Totem Calls. I personally loved being able to have different combos of totems I could easily drop together. Used to use NumPad 1-3 for Calls and NumPad 4 as Recall. Each number correlated to a different situation. Aside from that I cry a bit when I get silenced as I become completely useless, usually resulting in me releasing. HOWEVER, should I manage to blend in and do my thing the damage is on par with what I feel I should be doing.
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90 Draenei Shaman
5780
Ok, look Ele Damage is fine, PVE could use some work not much.. but PVP, man if you're an AVID pvp player and you play Ele you're in for a world of hurt with all the CCs, Stuns, Silences, Slows and Fears...
We have a stun... Capacitor, 6 sec pop, doesn't absolutly NOTHING, by the time it pops they've gone right by or if they are caught in it 3 secs means NOTHING. We have a CC in Poly ok, you Frog'em, they chase you down in frog and light you up, and its CD is 45 secs. We have Root, IF you Spec in it, and earthbind means NOTHING when you're Slowed by the various attacks of EVERYONE that comes at you...
We have a Silence... windshear works decent against certain classes but over all it doesn't last long enough before they Silence you.. no real complaints here..
Thunderstorm.. ok you gott'em away from you for .01 sec before they're all over you case and point, Thunderstorm, Warrior instantly recharges, stuns, silences, slows bashes your brains out... Thunderstorm, DK instantly redeathgrips you for the 3rd time... (and DON"T say it can't happen, I'm a prime canidate for that crap.) Silences, Slows Destruction ensues, and that crap 4 sec slow means nothing when they can just instantly be all over you again and with a 22.5 CD, I'm still screwed...
Earthquake, the BIGGEST joke of them all, When EXACTLY in PVP is this garbage gonna come into play, before or after you're bashed about the face for trying to cast it in combat?
All the Differnent types of FEAR, ok, I know Ghostcrawler has a love affair with certain classes and hates shamans but damn, give me a break, Why is it Locks can get EVERY FEAR in the book and we get a Tremor Totem that last 6 secs and a Trinket that has a 2 min CD. triple fear, tons of curses and Massive spell damage later and we're just standing there with 2% health left hoping a healer comes along... Not to mention Priests (don't get me started on the shields and life draining crap.)

When are we gonna get to ACTUALLY STUN someone, When are we gonna get to ACTUALLY silence or Fear someone?

The plain out fact is we're underskilled in PVP with very few options to fight back.. I can't cast when I'm Triple feared, Silenced and my Action Bar shuts down... My heals are a joke, I can bare out heal a bleed affect from a rogue. We have NO way to counter act poisons or break slows...

I can give suggestions but I feel they'll fall on Deaf Ears, the plight of the Shaman in this game is that of the unwanted step child. I LOVE the class but until Blizzard gets a LGD that isn't bais towards classes then we're screwed.

I fight as hard as I can in EVERY BG, problems aside but man, I'm more than tired of the trash we have to put up with... People want proof positive examples, there is NO more reason to point out every detail.. Blizzard KNOWS it.. they just don't care.

I know, I know QQ, whatever... I'm just tired of the bull now... stop giving candy to the children to shut us up and ACTUALLY HELP US... this is an appeal to the DEVS who give a crap.
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90 Pandaren Shaman
19615
02/09/2013 12:10 AMPosted by Urgan
(parsed 99k tonight on H Garajjal in 494 gear, no complaints about that),

that fight is set up for ele shammy's come on a 5/5 in a half min fight with the burst ele does.

You can have other classes with the same ilvl doing 20-30k more than that. And I don't know what you just said.
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90 Draenei Shaman
5780
Ok, now that I got that out... that was coming from a place of pure frustration and anger thats not Constructive... I do not apologize but acknowledge it was a rant.

Mastery: I LOVE it, doulbling up on Lava Burst and Ele blast has saved my hide more than a few times... the Damage is ok (could be 15% - 20% higher to be competative with other classes) the burst is nice not to mention Ascension in Elemental is amazing props on that.

This is the first time I've had true confidence in Elemental Spec in BGs ever and I want to see it improve to make it viable for Arena's on a Serious Basis. I was a DIE HARD Enhanced fan but now I'm all about the Elemental ways... its Dynamic, Exciting, Challenging and fun as all heck to play.

Even with the few escape skills and limited CCs we have I can still put up a good fight and come out smiling 75% of the time. Mastery focused with baseline Haste works great for my play style.

Instant Wolf Form has also helped alot in escape and evasion.

Now onto the constructive: A few suggestions (not a game rebuild.)

LAVA BURST: Automactically spreads Flame Shock to all near by Enemies doing initial damage the same as it would if was being applied directly from the Shaman.
NEW EFFECT: THIRD DEGREE BURNS, victims of Lava Burst recieve sever burns causing them to suffer for the remaining duration of the applied FLAME SHOCK increasing the Flame Shocks tick damage by 200%.

ELEMENTAL BLAST: Damage increased by 20%, cooldown decreased by 2 seconds, Mastery, Haste or Critical Strike effect increased to 12 seconds (up from 8).
NEW EFFECT: SHELL SHOCK, Elemental Blast has a 50% chance to cause instant Fulmination without needing a full seven charges.

CHAIN LIGHTNING: Now slows enemy movement by 20% and stacks 5 times. Each Stack lasts 3 seconds once 5 stacks are applied the target is rooted for 8 seconds.

LIGHTNING BOLT: Instant cast, no longer needs Glyph of Unleash Lightning to move and cast.

EARTH SHOCK: Damage inceased by 30%, Weaken Blows now reduces enemy damage by 50% up from 10% and now has a 50% chance to make your next Elemental Blast an instant cast.
NEW EFFECT: UNSTABLE, Earth Shocks jolt to the system causes the enemy to become physically shaken slowing movement by 70% for 6 seconds.

ASENDANCE: While transformed the Shaman is immune to stuns, silences, polymorphs, fears, movement impairing effects and all other disruptions.

THUNDERSTORM: Damage increased by 250%, cooldown reduced to 15 seconds down from 45 seconds.
NEW EFFECT: ELECTRIC SHOCK, the jolt from Thunderstorm stuns the enemy for 8 seconds and reduces movement speed by 70% for 10 seconds after the stun ends.

EARTHQUAKE: No longer does damage, Instant cast knocks down all enemies in the quake radius, prevents all movement and spellcasting for 8 seconds. 15 second cooldown.

WINDSHEAR: Interrupts spellcasting for 6 seconds up from 3 seconds.

SPIRIT WALKERS GRACE: Cooldown reduced to 20 seconds down from 2 mins.

HEX: Cooldown reduced to 20 seconds down from 45 seonds with diminished returns, now causing the victim to lose control of their character.

SEARING AND MAGMA TOTEM: Damage increased by 300%

TREMOR TOTEM: Now lasts 10 seconds up from 6 and the cooldown reduced to 15 seconds down from 1 minute.

GROUNDING TOTEM: Now is summoned with 50% of the shamans maximum health and redirects all ranged attacks and harmful spells to itself until destroyed or its duration expires.

STORMLASH TOTEM: Cooldown reduced to 45 seconds down from 5 minutes and lasts 25 seconds.

CAPACITOR TOTEM: Removed, repleaced by CAPACITOR SHIELD.

CAPACITOR SHEILD: Gathers electricity from the air around the Shaman to form a electrical shield that absorbs 120,000 damage. Once the shield expires it explodes and stuns all enemies within a 10 yard radius for 8 seconds. Lasts 1 minute.

As I said, just suggestions.
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