is anyone gonna keep playing disc 5.2?

90 Blood Elf Mage
11000
Crit owns. Don't be afraid of crit just because two expansions ago there were great reasons to never emphasize crit as a secondary stat - crits are much less likely to be overheals now, and big crits applying big DA is great even if it's a partial overheal.

Crit for life.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
13110
02/07/2013 01:01 PMPosted by Ceddya
I simply disagree, and it will be a cold day in hell before I depend on Crit over Mastery or Haste. I'll choose Haste before I choose Crit.


You might want to rethink that! I tried stacking either Crit or Mastery and Mastery is pretty terrible unless PW:S is all you cast. For reference, based on my current gear level, stacking Crit over Mastery would net 25% bigger DA values, 15% higher SS casts and ~6% overall higher non-absorbs. The only downside to stacking Crit is the 10% smaller PW:S casts, but that's a small trade off for much higher overall output. The gap between Crit and Mastery is only going to increase with better gear too.


Pretty sure you're a 25 man raider and I'm a 10 man raider, too, which is going to change my priority on stats. 25 man raiders have the luxury of having only one job within their raid. Tanks are always my responsibility. The raid is always my responsibility. I have to do what works for them both, not what bumps up a single CD.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
13110
Crit owns. Don't be afraid of crit just because two expansions ago there were great reasons to never emphasize crit as a secondary stat - crits are much less likely to be overheals now, and big crits applying big DA is great even if it's a partial overheal.

Crit for life.


It's not worth it. It's too RNG. I'd rather use Haste.
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90 Human Priest
4550
You can have some fun with disc priests:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBM3u3xP7Uo
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90 Human Priest
5860
Crit is devalued greatly due to its propensity to overheal. But it does have its benefits for squeezing out better dps with atonement.

And, uh, that whole DA shield-for-the-value-of-the-uncrit-heal * 1+mastery thing.

But what am I saying? no one's gonna play disc anymore lol aaahahah.... T_T

As much as healers don't like crit for the rng, that's the direction Disc is headed for 5.2. Consider also that spirit procs are going to be devalued, with passive spirit on gear being more desirable. So you'll have to choose between decreased mana regen or the rng/inconsistent nature of throughput procs.
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90 Blood Elf Mage
11000
02/07/2013 01:16 PMPosted by Tiriél
It's not worth it. It's too RNG. I'd rather use Haste.


It's really not too RNG to use. I'm fully crit reforged on my dorky alt priest and it performs well. I think the main obstacle to an emphasis on crit is a psychological barrier.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
13110
02/07/2013 01:23 PMPosted by Mahourai
It's not worth it. It's too RNG. I'd rather use Haste.


It's really not too RNG to use. I'm fully crit reforged on my dorky alt priest and it performs well. I think the main obstacle to an emphasis on crit is a psychological barrier.


Possibly. I'd still rather my casts be faster. I still pick up passive spirit on every single piece of gear I get. Given the choice, I will always value Haste or Mastery above Crit. I do a lot of Atonement healing, yes, but as a 10 man healer, I have a lot of other responsibilities. Crit is simply too RNG for my tastes, and there is no way to accrue enough of it with current gear for me to feel any differently.
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90 Night Elf Druid
15480
02/07/2013 01:23 PMPosted by Mahourai
It's really not too RNG to use. I'm fully crit reforged on my dorky alt priest and it performs well. I think the main obstacle to an emphasis on crit is a psychological barrier.


People still see crit as taboo. Which is silly. They also look at it singularly. Which again is silly. You are better off not talking about crit with people as it is hard to look at the big picture.
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90 Pandaren Priest
7670
Pretty sure you're a 25 man raider and I'm a 10 man raider, too, which is going to change my priority on stats. 25 man raiders have the luxury of having only one job within their raid. Tanks are always my responsibility. The raid is always my responsibility. I have to do what works for them both, not what bumps up a single CD.


How does this argument even work? A 10% bigger PW:S on the tank is hardly going to save anyone, and you're trading it off for a 15% smaller SS on the raid.

When it comes to 5.2, the spell casts for a 25 and 10-man Disc Priest is going to be pretty similar, with the usage frequency of our main spells - SS, offensive Penance, PoM and PW:S - being no different. Can you actually explain why Crit will be devalued compared to Mastery in a 10-man?
Edited by Ceddya on 2/7/2013 1:39 PM PST
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90 Draenei Priest
8015
This has been my main for years now, and thats not about to change. However,
I do think the PoH nerf is going a bit far, people on the ptr are reporting an average of 43% nerf to all absorbs, which im sure you fine ppl know is the bread and butter of disc's healing,
otherwise there would be no reason to ever be anything but holy. they get the raw healing power we lack, and we get the bubbles.

For the last couple years its felt like Ghost Crawler has been at war with bubbles, he nerfs them, then buffs them, then nerfs them again. The whole reason we got SS in the first place was because he wanted us to cast less PWS - mission accomplished- yet just the other day on twitter, he responded that he wanted us to cast MORE PWS. I really wish they could just get somewhere comfortable with the bubbles and leave them, i get tired of adjusting my play style every couple months because Ghost Crawler has bubble issues.

but thats just my two cents.
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90 Pandaren Priest
7670
t's really not too RNG to use. I'm fully crit reforged on my dorky alt priest and it performs well. I think the main obstacle to an emphasis on crit is a psychological barrier.


Or, the bigger issue could be that our Mastery is going to be pretty much worthless in 5.2.
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90 Blood Elf Mage
17225
02/07/2013 01:43 PMPosted by Ceddya
t's really not too RNG to use. I'm fully crit reforged on my dorky alt priest and it performs well. I think the main obstacle to an emphasis on crit is a psychological barrier.


Or, the bigger issue could be that our Mastery is going to be pretty much worthless in 5.2.


"Worthless" is a little strong, isn't it? Maybe it will be if you decline the invitation to cast more PW:shields . . .
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90 Human Priest
5860
02/07/2013 01:43 PMPosted by Ceddya
Or, the bigger issue could be that our Mastery is going to be pretty much worthless in 5.2.

Until 5.3 when bubble spam is back.
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90 Blood Elf Mage
11000
02/07/2013 01:36 PMPosted by Tiriél
Possibly. I'd still rather my casts be faster. I still pick up passive spirit on every single piece of gear I get. Given the choice, I will always value Haste or Mastery above Crit. I do a lot of Atonement healing, yes, but as a 10 man healer, I have a lot of other responsibilities. Crit is simply too RNG for my tastes, and there is no way to accrue enough of it with current gear for me to feel any differently.


Yeah but... that's just how you feel, not how a crit-focused disc priest actually performs. I understand the idea that crit just feels gross but it's a holdover from when focusing on crit was abysmal. I guarantee if your gear was crit-focused you'd have zero problems playing your priest, because I don't have any and my ilvl is much, much worse than yours.

As for accumulating passive spirit I don't see what that has to do with the secondary stats thing as pretty much every healer loves, and will continue to emphasize, passive spirit. We value it more highly but that doesn't matter when the value is already "make sure your entire gear set is passive spirit" - you can't exactly get more than that. Also as far as 10-man healing goes I don't see any reason 10s deemphasize crit.


Or, the bigger issue could be that our Mastery is going to be pretty much worthless in 5.2.


"Worthless" is a little strong, isn't it? Maybe it will be if you decline the invitation to cast more PW:shields . . .


Worthless is crit softcapping on my Frost mage or Mastery affecting only 15% of my spells. Talk about bad stat scaling!
Edited by Mahourai on 2/7/2013 1:51 PM PST
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90 Pandaren Priest
7670
02/07/2013 01:48 PMPosted by Taymage
"Worthless" is a little strong, isn't it? Maybe it will be if you decline the invitation to cast more PW:shields . . .


Worthless as in there's no practical reason to actually get it unless you're only casting PW:S, which is never going to happen.
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90 Blood Elf Mage
11000
By that metric every secondary stat that isn't your best one is "worthless". There is a practical reason to get mastery - it will improve your effective HPS, just not as much as Haste or Crit will next patch.
Edited by Mahourai on 2/7/2013 2:05 PM PST
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90 Draenei Priest
8015
actually there is a spread sheet on elitest jerks for 5.2 right now and the stat values stand as such, now this is with my current gear mind you, but i doubt it makes that much of a difference.

Crit - 0.61

haste- 0.47

mastery - 0.14

as you see, mastery is the clear loser.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Aosk7h2q_M7CdFU1cjVrdVBUYTI5X1Ayc244X1A1MEE#gid=0

here is the link, if anyone is interested.
Edited by Pearthemedic on 2/7/2013 2:09 PM PST
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90 Blood Elf Mage
11000
Mastery being dramatically worse than other secondary stats is a far cry from "worthless". Every class and spec I play has a secondary stat that is dramatically inferior to the best option.
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90 Draenei Priest
8015
thats where you and i will have to disagree, i really think mastery is sorely in need of a redesign.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
13110
02/07/2013 01:38 PMPosted by Ceddya
Pretty sure you're a 25 man raider and I'm a 10 man raider, too, which is going to change my priority on stats. 25 man raiders have the luxury of having only one job within their raid. Tanks are always my responsibility. The raid is always my responsibility. I have to do what works for them both, not what bumps up a single CD.


How does this argument even work? A 10% bigger PW:S on the tank is hardly going to save anyone, and you're trading it off for a 15% smaller SS on the raid.

When it comes to 5.2, the spell casts for a 25 and 10-man Disc Priest is going to be pretty similar, with the usage frequency of our main spells - SS, offensive Penance, PoM and PW:S - being no different. Can you actually explain why Crit will be devalued compared to Mastery in a 10-man?


I never said that, Ceddya. Try re-reading my posts. :-P I said I'm going Haste, you silly Panda.
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