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What we need is an encounter where everyone gets some absurd amount of hp (like boss level) and the raid takes completely consistent and unhealable damage for the entire fight. You have to burn the boss down before the raid dies.

There'd be no overheal and all specs would go for max output. Whatever class was on top would face the biggest avalance of forum tears in history.

It would be awesome.

That'd be pretty awesome, we'd also probably be close to dead last on something like that XD

My main problem with this is that disc said it repeatedly in beta that we weren't up to par, but we were ignored (and even saw solace being nerfed to oblivion). Then after awhile they finally realize how badly we were doing and super buffed us (without really asking if that was too much) and a bunch of people did express (me included, but not alone) that these buff were too much, yet we were ignored again. And now they're super nerfing us (worse than 5.0) and were telling them that it's too much, yet we'll be ignored again.

Problem with this expand is where moving really close to ICC style of healing where mana is non issue and people wildly balance between topped off and almost dead. In this kind of environment absorb mechanic is king. Honestly we'd probably be fine if this was cata, I guess they must have made with early cata style of healing in mind. I really wish they'd bring back early cata healing, was so much fun and actually required thought rather than "whack a mole" healing where you just use your heal as fast as you can. IMO they should just remove absorb almost entirely (keep PW:S but on a CD) and instead make disc a support role with tons of short term CD (say something that reduce damage receive by 30% for 5 sec on 10 sec CD and cause weaken soul on target) and stuff like the old power infusion where we buff other. Between this support role, our atonement and weaker healing we'd have an interesting niche that could be a tons of fun, and if real healing was required we could go holy.

Also extremely important to keep in mind in these discussion is that absorb mechanic always "heal first" so they'll always show up better on log than actual heal because if a skill healer use them well they show no over heal.

02/03/2013 08:44 PMPosted by Lìfendeath

I may be wrong, but hasn't mastery already been removed from SS in a hotfix a while back and it's just tooltip udates in the patch?

You are incorrect.

But either way mastery working for a CD was wrong so they had to change it.

So if/when Blizzard decides to decouple your Mastery from Incarnation: Tree of Life, Tranquility, and Efflo, you'll be okay with that, right? :)

No, it isn't taking it too far. The facts are - Disc is currently 30-35% ahead of Shaman and Druids, and thus needs about a 35% nerf. The logs I have seen from the PTR (granted Inner Focus is bugged, it's just 10 man and normal modes) indicate if anything, Disc needs to be nerfed further.

I really dont agree with this. Yes, I do agree that Disc priests needed to be nerfed. But I dont think unlinking an absorption from their only AoE heal was the way to go. Disc priests are supposed to prevent incoming damage, so being able to blanket the raid with a bubble was nice. they could of made it not stack up so much, or cut it down by the amount of healing was granted to the bubble

It hasn't been unlinked it now has %proc instead of press 1 button get double effect. w/ the latter being massively stronger.

I may be wrong, but hasn't mastery already been removed from SS in a hotfix a while back and it's just tooltip udates in the patch?

You are incorrect.

But either way mastery working for a CD was wrong so they had to change it.

So if/when Blizzard decides to decouple your Mastery from Incarnation: Tree of Life, Tranquility, and Efflo, you'll be okay with that, right? :)

It's only passive for direct heals still have to proc it for hots :) And druid mastery is nowhere as strong as disc priests. Having it removed from the strongest healing CD in the game isn't going to break your class now instead you won't be able to mitigate entire mechanics. Stop being biased and wait for live patch.

02/03/2013 08:49 PMPosted by Lìfendeath

It hasn't been unlinked it now has %proc instead of press 1 button get double effect. w/ the latter being massively stronger.

It is effectively unlinked, given the amount of Crit that can be gotten off of the gear we currently have.

02/03/2013 08:53 PMPosted by Lìfendeath

It's only passive for direct heals still have to proc it for hots :) And druid mastery is nowhere as strong as disc priests. Having it removed from the strongest healing CD in the game isn't going to break your class now instead you won't be able to mitigate entire mechanics.

We will still be able to break mechanics because it scales linearly with crit. But I don't really know why I'm even trying to reason with you when you apparently don't understand that having our Mastery reduced to being effectively worthless (as it only affects absorbs, and thus will only reliably affect PW: Shield) is not a good thing.

Edited to Add: Also, who the hell doesn't have Harmony up 100% of the time? What kind of Druid would even do that?

I really dont agree with this. Yes, I do agree that Disc priests needed to be nerfed. But I dont think unlinking an absorption from their only AoE heal was the way to go. Disc priests are supposed to prevent incoming damage, so being able to blanket the raid with a bubble was nice. they could of made it not stack up so much, or cut it down by the amount of healing was granted to the bubble

It hasn't been unlinked it now has %proc instead of press 1 button get double effect. w/ the latter being massively stronger.

Try to actually know something about a class before you post please. PoH heals for crap and even if your " 50" chance to gain DA is accurate. ( which i highly doubt ) You are still left with a healer with little to no out put exect for once a min when SS is up.

Prestacking bubbles when predictable damage is going out is what makes disc effective. Take any fight with constant aoe damage. A disc priest whos only aoe heal does a whooping 30k hps on a max of 5 players assuming everyone is is range. I cant keep up with the damage without the extra DA attached to PoH.

Atonement healing is decent for spot heals but is crap for aoe. When DA gets removed from PoH in 5.2 disc priest will be far behind in terms of keeping up with raid aoes that occur more than once a min.

I dont have a issue with people nerfing the DA that procs or even toning down SS. But reducing both and removing mastery from SS is going to far. The real issue is regen. Without endless mana we could not keep the raid blanketed and we could not chain cast PoH.

02/03/2013 08:55 PMPosted by Tiriél

It's only passive for direct heals still have to proc it for hots :) And druid mastery is nowhere as strong as disc priests. Having it removed from the strongest healing CD in the game isn't going to break your class now instead you won't be able to mitigate entire mechanics.

We will still be able to break mechanics because it scales linearly with crit. But I don't really know why I'm even trying to reason with you when you apparently don't understand that having our Mastery reduced to being effectively worthless (as it only affects absorbs, and thus will only reliably affect PW: Shield) is not a good thing.

Edited to Add: Also, who the hell doesn't have Harmony up 100% of the time? What kind of Druid would even do that?

It will still affect DA? Mechanical issues! oh and

What saddens me is the thought of switching classes simply because of numbers. I can understand if it completely destroys, making them unplayable, but the nerfs, considering everything else that has been done to classes over the years, is nothing.

I understand the reasons for FotM, but to think that it comes down to the question of literally "Is anyone gonna keep playing disc?", as if no one else will play it completely baffles me. Is your mind so much in a tunnel that you can't see any other reason for people playing a certain class? Like lore? Or gameplay mechanics? Or style themes? Or xmog gear? Or simply because they have a favorite?

If I were a bit more uncouth, I guess the statement I would be saying is "Get your head out of your rear."

02/03/2013 09:03 PMPosted by Lìfendeath

It will still affect DA? Mechanical issues! oh and

Given the fact that we do not have a guaranteed DA, added to the fact that Mastery will not affect Spirit Shell, except where it is factored in as part of the DA calcuations automatically added to the spell, it affecting DA really doesn't mean a whole lot.

It hasn't been unlinked it now has %proc instead of press 1 button get double effect. w/ the latter being massively stronger.

Try to actually know something about a class before you post please. PoH heals for crap and even if your " 50" chance to gain DA is accurate. ( which i highly doubt ) You are still left with a healer with little to no out put exect for once a min when SS is up.

Prestacking bubbles when predictable damage is going out is what makes disc effective. Take any fight with constant aoe damage. A disc priest whos only aoe heal does a whooping 30k hps on a max of 5 players assuming everyone is is range. I cant keep up with the damage without the extra DA attached to PoH.

Atonement healing is decent for spot heals but is crap for aoe. When DA gets removed from PoH in 5.2 disc priest will be far behind in terms of keeping up with raid aoes that occur more than once a min.

I dont have a issue with people nerfing the DA that procs or even toning down SS. But reducing both and removing mastery from SS is going to far. The real issue is regen. Without endless mana we could not keep the raid blanketed and we could not chain cast PoH.

I have a priest i've played disc and i'm sure i said it's now a crit proc instead of guaranteed and it's 50% of your PoH w/ mastery. Try reading my post instead of getting worked up and rushing that ill thought reply.

02/03/2013 09:07 PMPosted by Tiriél

It will still affect DA? Mechanical issues! oh and

Given the fact that we do not have a guaranteed DA, added to the fact that Mastery will not affect Spirit Shell, except where it is factored in as part of the DA calcuations automatically added to the spell, it affecting DA really doesn't mean a whole lot.

yeah, you only see what you want i'm not repyling too you anymore. You can't see that disc is too strong you say agree w/ the nerfs, but you still want disc to be overpowered do everything healer. DA and SS are the two biggest disc mechanics why would they nerf anything else? They could have nerfed DA back to 30% and kept the guaranteed proc, but they chose to keep it strong, but no longer an i win button. W/ the way SS work they would have had to change the spell and every disco wannabe would have cried foul.

Get over it your class is still going to be great and desired in raids, but if you want to act like the FOTM crowd>>>>>>>>>>

Try to actually know something about a class before you post please. PoH heals for crap and even if your " 50" chance to gain DA is accurate. ( which i highly doubt ) You are still left with a healer with little to no out put exect for once a min when SS is up.

Prestacking bubbles when predictable damage is going out is what makes disc effective. Take any fight with constant aoe damage. A disc priest whos only aoe heal does a whooping 30k hps on a max of 5 players assuming everyone is is range. I cant keep up with the damage without the extra DA attached to PoH.

Atonement healing is decent for spot heals but is crap for aoe. When DA gets removed from PoH in 5.2 disc priest will be far behind in terms of keeping up with raid aoes that occur more than once a min.

I dont have a issue with people nerfing the DA that procs or even toning down SS. But reducing both and removing mastery from SS is going to far. The real issue is regen. Without endless mana we could not keep the raid blanketed and we could not chain cast PoH.

I have a priest i've played disc and i'm sure i said it's now a crit proc instead of guaranteed and it's 50% of your PoH w/ mastery. Try reading my post instead of getting worked up and rushing that ill thought reply.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/kiljaeden/D%C3%A0wnstar/advanced

Clearly you know how to play one since you have done so much with yours. ( did i mention your not even spec'ed disc ?) I agree you should read a post. No one is worked up all i did is point out the looming problem that disc priest will soon be kinda useless on any encounter where raid damage occurs more than once a min.

Its not complicated to look at actual PoH numbers without DA and compare them to any other healer and see a big out put gap. I would love to know your opinion on how to counter this.

Especially since on fights like imperial vizor we could get back to back FnV on last phase. I guess we will just wipe it up to bad rng because we took a Disc priest? I dont see that working out so well. Add in the fact it takes over 600 points of crit to gain a percent. Gear levels wont support crit as a option till later down the road.

I have a priest i've played disc and i'm sure i said it's now a crit proc instead of guaranteed and it's 50% of your PoH w/ mastery. Try reading my post instead of getting worked up and rushing that ill thought reply.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/kiljaeden/D%C3%A0wnstar/advanced

Clearly you know how to play one since you have done so much with yours. I agree you should read a post. No one is worked up all i did is point out the looming problem that disc priest will soon be kinda useless on any encounter where raid damage occurs more than once a min.

Its not complicated to look at actual PoH numbers without DA and compare them to any other healer and see a big out put gap. I would love yo know your oppinion on how to counter this.

Especially since on fights like imperial vizor we could get back to back FnV on last phase. I guess we will just wipe it up to bad rng because we took a Disc priest? I dont see that working out so well. Add in the fact it takes over 600 points of crit to gain a percent. Gear levels wont support crit as a option tilll later down the road.

I don't get the whole weee lets look at his alts thing? Kinda stalkerish don't you think? I don't have a lot wow time these days and only raid on my druid and since you've looked at my priest you'd see i'm not even specced disc found it boring. You may get double FNV, i assume you raid 10 man? I don't know your raid comp or your co-healer/s so i can't comment.

02/03/2013 09:15 PMPosted by Lìfendeath

yeah, you only see what you want i'm not repyling too you anymore. You can't see that disc is too strong you say agree w/ the nerfs, but you still want disc to be overpowered do everything healer. DA and SS are the two biggest disc mechanics why would they nerf anything else? They could have nerfed DA back to 30% and kept the guaranteed proc, but they chose to keep it strong, but no longer an i win button. W/ the way SS work they would have had to change the spell and every disco wannabe would have cried foul.

I think you should read further back in this thread, specifically what Elethia posted about her testing on the PTR and the numbers being produced.

Get over it your class is still going to be great and desired in raids, but if you want to act like the FOTM crowd>>>>>>>>>>

I've never said it wouldn't be. In fact, all I've said is that there is nothing wrong with disagreeing with how the nerfs are being implemented. Only a fool would say that Disc isn't currently overtuned and doesn't need nerfs. We do. I simply disagree with how the nerfs are being implemented, and worry that they are going too far. I will still be playing a Disc Priest. Perhaps you should direct your ire about "FOTM crowds" to someone else.

02/03/2013 09:30 PMPosted by Lìfendeath

I don't get the whole weee lets look at his alts thing? Kinda stalkerish don't you think? I don't have a lot wow time these days and only raid on my druid and since you've looked at my priest you'd see i'm not even specced disc found it boring. You may get double FNV, i assume you raid 10 man? I don't know your raid comp or your co-healer/s so i can't comment.

When you make a statement, you should expect to be called on it. When you say you are experienced in Disc, but then make statements about the spec that make no sense, you should expect that people are going to look to see if you're telling the truth. In this case, you apparently have not been telling the truth. Surprise, surprise.

Its not complicated to look at actual PoH numbers without DA and compare them to any other healer and see a big out put gap. I would love to know your opinion on how to counter this.

Especially since on fights like imperial vizor we could get back to back FnV on last phase. I guess we will just wipe it up to bad rng because we took a Disc priest? I dont see that working out so well. Add in the fact it takes over 600 points of crit to gain a percent. Gear levels wont support crit as a option till later down the road.

Yes, but the gap can be filled by using an offensive Penance and PoM. The fact that neither spell consumes BT should be taken advantage of, and weaving in PW:S into your PoH casts should assist with your output. You also have IF/PoH (at least 500k healing in one cast to one group) and the level 90 talents to fill in any remaining gaps if needed.

Fights with bursts like FnV actually still cater to a Disc's strength, as you have SS for every other and if SS is down, you should be able to PW:S ~10 members of the raid before the next FnV for roughly 1.3mil worth of shields. Contrast this to the fact that a DH/Tranq only for heals slightly more and you can see that Disc's will still be viable for fights with burst damage.

02/03/2013 09:30 PMPosted by Lìfendeath

I don't get the whole weee lets look at his alts thing

Well when least two people on this page are telling you there will be issues in the future as a disc priest and you seem to think we are wrong. Looking up your alts to see if you have any experience with this class just seems logical.

sure atm we are over powered but the changes in store will basically gimp us for any encounter that has raid wide damage that occurs more than once a min. ( yes in time crit may help this burden but depending on rng seems like a bad choice ) Empress vizor garalon amber shaper just in HoF all have phases where raid wide damage can occur more than once a min.

Im not advocating that we should continue to be so dominate but i am advocating that removing DA from PoH is gonna cause more problems than people currently realize. Sure there are other healers in a raid and the load does not only rely on disc priest. However leaving us unable to compete when SS is on CD is bad.

Im not opposed to other peoples opinions i like diversity and i enjoy getting others PoV tis why i made the thread.

These changes seem to be in line with the 5.1 nerfs to monks, and we're doing fine. PoH still functions as a party heal, and spirit shell is slightly nerfed by remains functionally the same. Disc is going to be fine, it's just gonna be a bit traumatic when you can't mash PoH for everything anymore.

- Top NA MW on 10H Garalon; I know what I'm talking about. #BasedMonk #Srzbznz #WoLMatters